Gee, do you think???

Hillbilly

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?No country is going to create wealth if its leaders exploit the economy to enrich themselves, or police can be bought off by drug traffickers,? he said. ?No business wants to invest in a place where the government skims 20 percent off the top, or the head of the port authority is corrupt. No person wants to live in a society where the rule of law gives way to the rule of brutality and bribery. That is not democracy, that is tyranny, and now is the time for it to end.?

These words spoken in Accra, the capital of Ghana, in West Africa, seem to ring so true for this country.

I was recently talking to a colleague who happens to be one of the leading cultural lights of Santiago and perhaps the nation. He had received a RD$3.0 million grant for a major cultural project in Santiago. The first calls he got were from: The general at the fort, asking for 50 thou, the commander of the Air Base, looking for a similar sum and the local police commander looking for another 50 thou....This is ingrained corruption. They think it is their prerogative to get this money...

Another person I know, quite well, has a brother who is into alternative energy technology...in order to get a project for a wind farm to be approved, he needed to up 100 grand US$!! to the, get this, Head of the government's Alternative Energy Committee!!!

I can probably fill up this page's broadband allowance telling you these things, and I am sure that many reading this have their own stories. All of which drives Obama's words home for us here in the DR.

Perhaps if we harp enough, talk enough, write to the on-line news media (all of the local papers have on line editions with commentaries...make use of them) some of this can change..

I, for one, will send that quote to the editor of at least one paper...

HB
 
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Apr 3, 2009
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Yikes!

?No country is going to create wealth if its leaders exploit the economy to enrich themselves, or police can be bought off by drug traffickers,? he said. ?No business wants to invest in a place where the government skims 20 percent off the top, or the head of the port authority is corrupt. No person wants to live in a society where the rule of law gives way to the rule of brutality and bribery. That is not democracy, that is tyranny, and now is the time for it to end.?
Good quote and great story.

BTW, the CPI (Corruption Perceptions Index) has The Dominican Republic tied with Rwanda (#102) in reference to perceived corruption among public officials and politicians.

-BB
 
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Danny W

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HB

This was a speech directed mainly at heads of state as the common folk have little hope of effecting change. In the DR, it appears that the people have more of a voice due to the electoral process. So why has such little progress been made?

I remember my first arrival at the POP airport after the change in administration. It was the first time I wasn't held up for money by the customs officials. Being somewhat of a newbie I thought "wow, a change is gonna come". But things seem to have remained the same - or gotten worse.

Perhaps if the current president spent less time playing the role of world statesman he could devote more time to serving the real needs of the country. Why do you think he as been so in-effective? Is there a better alternative in the coming elections? At least the DR is a democracy.

Personally I think Obama will do more harm than good during his presidency, but at least the people had the opportunity to choose. Dominicans have the same right. Are there no strong anti-corruption candidates?

-D
 

Thandie

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In the DR, it appears that the people have more of a voice due to the electoral process. So why has such little progress been made?.....
At least the DR is a democracy.
Personally I think Obama will do more harm than good during his presidency, but at least the people had the opportunity to choose. Dominicans have the same right.
-D

But the right to vote is not the be all and end all to democracy.

The people of Ghana have the right to vote too.
Ghanas economy is doing better than many of its neighbouring African countries...but the INGRAINED corruption in the govt is what is slowing its REAL growth and progress and keeping 30% of it population living in poverty.

What Obama and the stories that HB shared shows that with such high and 'accepted' levels of corruption in the government that country is NOT a TRUE democracy. There is no equality!
When it is so accepted, known and out in the open that people can pay off a judge to get out of jail or the right official to get a business contract, etc.

It is up to the young people of any country to be ****ed off enough and to fight hard enough to demand change from their leaders.
 

cobraboy

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I say again: corruption in the DR will not decrease until a real, functioning, viable non-political Civil Service system in instituted.

The only way for it to end is to end clientelism.

But I doubt it will happen. Clientelism is how folks get elected here.
 

Danny W

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Thandie -

The young people need a charismatic leader to rally behind. I'm old and islolated, but the young people that I see are compalcent at best.

Who or what group in the DR is spearheading an anti-corruption movement?

Cobraboy -

Yes, the civil service is a disaster. But the reform must come from the top. Leonel is good at photo ops, especially overseas where noting quantifiable is ever accomplished. Is there any strong, charismatic leadership on the horizon?
I live in New York and part time in Sosua, so I don't know - but I never hear about anyone.

Somebody name one, please.

-D
 

Danny W

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Were you reffering to Fernandez or Obama or possibly both of them?

i guess you could say both, but I was referring to Fernandez. Any foreign initiatives by Fernandez would involve increasing trade or other economic issues to benefit the country. And as HB and Obama correctly indicated, a less corrupt environment would do more than all the gladhanding with foreign leaders.
 

Windjammer

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Seems apathy is currently universal which, unlike ignorance, cannot be trained out. The DR citizenry apparently shares that attribute with the US and EU societies, and is reinforcced by the treatments shown the Hondurans, selected Chinese, and Iranians by our "World Leaders". Like,... who really gives a rat's *ss if "it ain't gonna change nohow"? So we all sit on our collective butts. wringing hands as we await that "Great Leader" coming to lead us out of the wilderness. Painfully unsurprising to many in the States, the greatly awaited great "Hope" has failed even more miserably to bring the "Change" anticipated. I guess kind of like charity, corruption 'begins at home', with people ultimately rising up to meet it head-on, once they find they've had enough. .......Just a newbie gringo's viewpoint.
 

Conchman

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To change corruption, you have to change the whole culture. You will have to hit it at all ends, starting with education. Politicians will have to set examples. A leader needs to step up to the plate and start putting people in jail. It starts with getting traffic tickets, the day that every jeepeta cannot pull out a general's business card in order to get out of a traffic ticket, will be the day that progress has been made.
 

Danny W

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Rule of Law in absentia!

It's a good thing Fernandez is touring the Middle East. He's sure to make progress fighing corruption from half way around the world. - D
 

Chip

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It all starts with education. We need to open the minds of the Dominicans kids to worlds and ideas that are different than theirs.

I am constantly amazed a young graduates from college who have little ideals about changing things, they are typically Dominican in that they are just concerned with their own well being and not the patria.
 

suarezn

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I wish I could be more optimistic about this, but I just don't see anything changing. It is so ingrained it is considered a right not anything bad. As an example just look at the different government officials that Nuria has exposed and see them talk about how they are helping their friends by giving them government jobs where they don't even have to show up. They truly believe it is their right to use the people's money for their own "philanthropic" endeavors and that they are just doing some good.

I have had this argument with a lot of my friends, who just don't seem to understand that the money belongs o the people not the politician who is managing it. They firmly believe that if my party won then everyone who's not from that party shouldn't have a government job, which goes back to what Cobraboy said.

I have lost faith that anything will change as I've seen what money does to people. I had a few friends who were anti all of this until they found themselves working for the government and now you wouldn't recognize them. One of them was almost a fanatic follower of Bosch' doctrine and member of the original PLD. After Leonel won the first time he (an economist) didn't get offered any job with the government, then Hippo won and offered him a high ranking job with a lot of money and perks. He took it and you wouldn't believe how fervently he would defend their policies. For instance my friend was part of the team who put together the "Sovereign Bonds" package and he would defend this to no end (of course they all made up like bandits in the end).

Anyhow we all know what's needed - Education, an honest leader willing to take on the crooks, etc, etc, etc...Unfortunately I don't see this happening in my life time, so nowadays I just go down there for the beer, the fun, the sun, etc and leave the politics to others.
 
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Mr. Lu

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...

It all starts with education. We need to open the minds of the Dominicans kids to worlds and ideas that are different than theirs.

I am constantly amazed a young graduates from college who have little ideals about changing things, they are typically Dominican in that they are just concerned with their own well being and not the patria.

Do you think this is much different from American kids or youth from other parts of the world? I don't mean the education level, but the willingness to only look out for themselves and not for country?


Mr. Lu
 

Mr. Lu

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Mar 26, 2007
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...

To change corruption, you have to change the whole culture. You will have to hit it at all ends, starting with education. Politicians will have to set examples. A leader needs to step up to the plate and start putting people in jail. It starts with getting traffic tickets, the day that every jeepeta cannot pull out a general's business card in order to get out of a traffic ticket, will be the day that progress has been made.

Dominicans like it this way. Things won't change. In your particular example, it's a self esteem issue. They feel better then everyone because they have a "carnet." It's a culture that is not set up to progress in this regard. You might build Metros and Roads and Highways and Resorts, but at the core of who they are and what they are, what they represent and what they aspire to be, they, meaning Dominicans, won't change. I am not judging it, just framing the argument.

As per the system, it won't change. It sounds pessimistic, but at the same time Fernandez, "our best option," is in the Middle East with his contingency of 3,000 men, while we have no power....is there a reason to be optimistic????



Mr. Lu
 

Danny W

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completely delusional!

"With pledges to assist the Israeli-Palestinian peace process if the Dominican Republic obtains a seat on the UN Security Council, President Leonel Fernandez brought the official part of his trip to Israel to a close."

This man is either completely out of his mind or is angling for a job with the UN. Either way, he's not getting the job done. He's a real disgrace! - D
 

Danny W

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The man isn't dealing with corruption, because it's more widespread and engrained into the society than any one man can handle.

What could he possibly do by himself?

In order to be elected, he had to surround himself with people that are the main benefactors of the corruption.

As far as I see it, it's an impossible task for any man to conquer.

Once elected he could have taken a real stand against corruption, but he didn't. Let's hope that someday someone will. HB has the right idea - giving up is not the answer. - D
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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Cobraboy -

Yes, the civil service is a disaster. But the reform must come from the top. Leonel is good at photo ops, especially overseas where noting quantifiable is ever accomplished. Is there any strong, charismatic leadership on the horizon?
Problem is Leonel (or fill-in-the-blank elected official) got to where he is by clientelism.

Next meaningful election cycle, look at how many tiny political parties suddenly appear, like UBH's* in a Sosua disco. Why is that? Because the party leaders know they will get tossed a bone to have his "followers" vote a certain way.

It is what it is.

I'm doubting it will change...

















*copyright AZB, S.A.:cheeky: