METRO - Looks like some of us had a clue?

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
20,574
341
83
dr1.com
Sadly, after US$750 million and more government spin than a hurricane, the truth is starting to trickle out.

From our news today:

Metro: taxpayer nightmare
It took 2 months and legal action, but journalist Edwin Ruiz of Clave finally got the figures to write his story on how the reality of the first year of the Santo Domingo metro compares to projections made for justifying the construction of the first line. The metro promoters had estimated 200,000 passengers and RD$4 million a day in revenues per day. But the reality of the first six months is that on average 50,643 (including both routes) passengers have rode the metro paying RD$1,012,856 in fares (at RD$20 the fare). The at least RD$3 million daily deficit needs to be picked up by taxpayers. Thus the "dream" of President Leonel Fernandez seems to have turned into a nightmare, at least for taxpayers.

The metro cuts the time to get from Villa Mella to La Feria from 2 hours to 20 minutes. The service is world class. But where are the users? It is not that they would not like to take the modern metro, it is that the feeder routes are not there, and passengers have to pay other fares anyway to take the metro. Hamlet Hermann, former director of the Metropolitan Transport Authority, explains the government did not heed advice to create the feeder routes first.

The stats on the Metro show that the least used stations are those at the Maximo Gomez Cemetery (63 users per hour), the Mirador del Norte (60 users per hour) and La Isabela (54 users per hour). The most used stations are at the two extremes. The Mama Tingo at Av. Charles de Gaulle in Villa Mella shows 636 users per hour, and the La Firia receives 456 users per hour.
Moneywise, the metro is a big loser. With a fare of RD$20, it generates barely RD$1,02,856 daily, or approximately RD$370 million a year, equivalent to about US$10.3 million. Traditional motoconcho, guagua and concho transport favorably compete in price with the comfort of the metro.
According to the OPRET the metro cost US$674.6 million. But the IDB says the investment was US$54 milion per kilometer, or US$756 million.

OPRET has reported the government is subsidizing the metro with RD$22.5 million a month, or about RD$270 million a year. But Edwin Ruiz reports that in the 2009 National Budget RD$2.41 billion or US$64.8 million have been allotted for the operation of the metro. 86% of those funds would have come from abroad.

Opret says that the present cost per passenger is RD$35. The report indicates this means a RD$1.09 billion deficit needs to be assumed by taxpayers that most probably are not using the metro. The report concludes that around 25,000 persons a day benefit greatly from being able to use the US$750 million-metro.

The authorities of the Metro refused to sit for an interview with Edwin Ruiz after delivering the data.
 

PJT

Silver
Jan 8, 2002
3,568
305
83
There is a saying "A boat is a hole in the water you throw money into." Therefore, all being equal ...."The Metro is a hole in the ground you throw ..... "

Somebody's dream gone bust.

Regards,
PJT
 

2dlight

Bronze
Jun 3, 2004
970
36
28
Please give "the defenders" a little time. Putting a positive spin on this requires more than just Wikipedia research and cut-and-paste.;)
 

bigbird

Gold
May 1, 2005
7,375
163
0
Raise the fare to RD25 and it would still be a bargain. The problem I see with the Metro is there is only one line going north and south along Gomez. If there were another line going east and west would be a major improvement.

Maybe I am a dreamer but the Metro has potential.

How about a Mr. Lu "I rode the Metro" video?
 

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
1,091
88
0
....

Raise the fare to RD25 and it would still be a bargain. The problem I see with the Metro is there is only one line going north and south along Gomez. If there were another line going east and west would be a major improvement.

Maybe I am a dreamer but the Metro has potential.

I will saying nicely. You are a dreamer. So am I, but some dreams are more practical and attainable than others. This not being one of them.

The problem isn't the cost of the metro, rather that projects like this are not investments. They have no type of return on the investment. They just eat up funds. The reason Boston or NY keep their metro it's because there is a history of public transport. What would NY be without a metro? But from a $$ point of view, even the MBTA and NY's transit authorities see their mass transit systems in the red.

The numbers are simple and we now know that metro is......




Mr. Lu
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
893
113
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
Sadly, after US$750 million and more government spin than a hurricane, the truth is starting to trickle out.

From our news today:

Metro: taxpayer nightmare
It took 2 months and legal action, but journalist Edwin Ruiz of Clave finally got the figures to write his story on how the reality of the first year of the Santo Domingo metro compares to projections made for justifying the construction of the first line. The metro promoters had estimated 200,000 passengers and RD$4 million a day in revenues per day. But the reality of the first six months is that on average 50,643 (including both routes) passengers have rode the metro paying RD$1,012,856 in fares (at RD$20 the fare). The at least RD$3 million daily deficit needs to be picked up by taxpayers. Thus the "dream" of President Leonel Fernandez seems to have turned into a nightmare, at least for taxpayers.

The metro cuts the time to get from Villa Mella to La Feria from 2 hours to 20 minutes. The service is world class. But where are the users? It is not that they would not like to take the modern metro, it is that the feeder routes are not there, and passengers have to pay other fares anyway to take the metro. Hamlet Hermann, former director of the Metropolitan Transport Authority, explains the government did not heed advice to create the feeder routes first.

The stats on the Metro show that the least used stations are those at the Maximo Gomez Cemetery (63 users per hour), the Mirador del Norte (60 users per hour) and La Isabela (54 users per hour). The most used stations are at the two extremes. The Mama Tingo at Av. Charles de Gaulle in Villa Mella shows 636 users per hour, and the La Firia receives 456 users per hour.
Moneywise, the metro is a big loser. With a fare of RD$20, it generates barely RD$1,02,856 daily, or approximately RD$370 million a year, equivalent to about US$10.3 million. Traditional motoconcho, guagua and concho transport favorably compete in price with the comfort of the metro.
According to the OPRET the metro cost US$674.6 million. But the IDB says the investment was US$54 milion per kilometer, or US$756 million.

OPRET has reported the government is subsidizing the metro with RD$22.5 million a month, or about RD$270 million a year. But Edwin Ruiz reports that in the 2009 National Budget RD$2.41 billion or US$64.8 million have been allotted for the operation of the metro. 86% of those funds would have come from abroad.

Opret says that the present cost per passenger is RD$35. The report indicates this means a RD$1.09 billion deficit needs to be assumed by taxpayers that most probably are not using the metro. The report concludes that around 25,000 persons a day benefit greatly from being able to use the US$750 million-metro.

The authorities of the Metro refused to sit for an interview with Edwin Ruiz after delivering the data.



The Reality that's totally ignored:

The metro promoters had estimated 200,000 passengers and RD$4 million a day in revenues per day. But the reality of the first six months is that on average 50,643 (including both routes) passengers have rode the metro paying RD$1,012,856 in fares (at RD$20 the fare). The at least RD$3 million daily deficit needs to be picked up by taxpayers. Thus the "dream" of President Leonel Fernandez seems to have turned into a nightmare, at least for taxpayers.
The metro cuts the time to get from Villa Mella to La Feria from 2 hours to 20 minutes.

The 200,000 ridership was correct! BUT!!!! And here is the pivotal point being ignored by even our own DR1 efficient staff:

The 200,000 daily ridership was the correct/founded/studied/agreed number of riders once ALL the primary lines of the SD Metro were IN service. Not line 1 alone as currently it operates... Not without the feeder system as it today operates... Most importantly NOT under the government's direct administration as today it operates...

As a matter of fact today ridership is averaging 65,000 + on weekdays and 40,000 + on weekends for LINE 1 ALONE!!!!!

Information provided half way is called "Misinformation"....


Hamlet Hermann, former director of the Metropolitan Transport Authority, explains the government did not heed advice to create the feeder routes first.

The feeder buses are NOT in operation for two (2) reasons:

#1- Buying buses to place the feeder routes directly by the gov, would create a conflict of interest and control once the SD Metro system is administered by the semi private-public entity that will take over operations. Any purchase and operation of the buses will entail that the gov would put the semi private -public administrators and system, to the exposure of cash flow, funding, drivers and support contract for the personnel operating the lines, validating of riders with rail system, etc...


#2 - Feeder buses are the primary fall back to the system, should it become inoperable at any given time frame during work hours. Stranding thousands of riders in platforms without the means to get to work using the same routes and fees paid.

The feeder buses will be the primary system the SD Metro will rely on for operations, thus making it imperative that it's under full and direct control of the service and bus infrastructure. Think NYC's MTA, which handles Bus, Rail, Metro and regional interlinks from one control source...


Moneywise, the metro is a big loser. With a fare of RD$20, it generates barely RD$1,02,856 daily, or approximately RD$370 million a year, equivalent to about US$10.3 million. Traditional motoconcho, guagua and concho transport favorably compete in price with the comfort of the metro.

The SD Metro is not even in full operational capacity (understand all the planned lines as projected for a 200,000 + ridership once it completes the phased plan) with barely a few months of operation, yet we fail to hear that the Puerto Rico Metro (ATI) is barely hanging much lower after YEARS operations and 80% loss in operational revenues. Compare apples to apples, not apples (SD Metro) to lemons (conchos)...

To put it a bit more clear for those not so good on fruity math: The SD Metro is the first Metro system built to reach operational capacity of less than 40% of projected service length, and still provide over 30% target ridership in less than 12 months of operations!!!! That's for ANY new metro system built ANYWHERE in the world, including the NYC Metro...

According to the OPRET the metro cost US$674.6 million. But the IDB says the investment was US$54 milion per kilometer, or US$756 million.
OPRET has reported the government is subsidizing the metro with RD$22.5 million a month, or about RD$270 million a year. But Edwin Ruiz reports that in the 2009 National Budget RD$2.41 billion or US$64.8 million have been allotted for the operation of the metro. 86% of those funds would have come from abroad.

The figures offered by OPRET are the definitive lions share of the SD Metro construction costs per Km. The IDB is providing the figures that INLCUDE the actual work on roads, paving, peripheral construction that was undertaken as the Metro construction went on. These works were slated to take place with or without the Metro being built. The gov decided to include them in the contracts offered for bids, in an attempt to get maximum value for the loaned buck, and it did...

That's like saying that your home that your building, is costing 100 million pesos, but the access road to it is in shambles and for your kids to cross the road a mini bridge is the safer option, over a super speeder running them over your avenue. You decide that including a rework of the access road and a mini bridge is in order to complement your new home. When you sell the house what do you think you can include as expenses to build it to a new buyer? The road access? The bridge? Ask him if that's part of the house he's buying and paying for... Those are secondary peripheral upgrades that were called for, not needed or mandated/planned/projected/included as part of the house construction costs...

What Edwin doesn't says is that the allocation to the Metro by the Gov in the national budget, includes the aforementioned upgrades taking place still after the metro stations were built and the inclusion of funds for city and cabildos to make up for the extra stuff that's now needed to be kept and maintained under the responsibility of the public services and not the Metro. Think that all those columns and surroundings to Metro stations, infrastructure, etc... now need to be properly serviced and maintained on street level, not in the system... Not even to include the security afforded to the system in it, which is the primary responsibility of the gov, NOT the Metro administration....

Without adding that everything that needs to address peripheral or services created as the Metro was built, needs to be made from scratch for a system that wasn?t there to begin with. You can't provide services for something that didn't exist before with something that doesn't exist as well to that end. That's included in that "budget" allocation...

Why would you sit with a "reporter" that will anyhow use what he wants and not the whole picture as it's?

If OPRET or the gov was to address and sit with every reporter in the DR that "investigated" and "reported" as this guy did on the METRO SYSTEM, it would need to appoint a 20,000 member staff, ministers and all to handle the daily and hourly "sit" ins needed to clear their "investigations"...


Truly I expected much more than this terrible coverage from DR1!

Since the first second OPRET offered the 200,000 expected daily ridership, it worded the figure correctly to the "ONCE THE LINES ARE IN OPERATION" not "LINE 1 IS IN OPERATION"....

Problem is that "OUR" reporters are analphabets that need to think critically before using their thumbs to type their "reports" in the PC for editors...

Where should I now put DR1 on this one here????
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
893
113
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
Where are the Metro supporters now?



Mr. Lu


Right here Mr. Lu! With the other half of the information the biased reporters use to attack the SD Metro system!

One can spot how memorizing education ends for these "reporters" in the DR.

How can you see one thing, yet totally ignore the facts along side your "unbiased" report? That's for the reporter in question on the article.

If every gov had to sit with each nutcase that "claims" to the Holy Grail, we would be in deep s**t today...

25,000 riders a day only beneficiaries of the SD Metro?!?! Ha! That's one for the records!! LOL!!!

He goes from numbers "Gathered" by particulars on ridership, than actual OPRET official numbers from automatic system reports installed to that end there...

What's next? The SD Metro has to compete for riders from the sea of motoconchos as well????

I think they feel it was best to let line 1 and sequential line 2 on the way to start construction, to sit idling until the complete system is built and the 200,000 riders can be matched to initial expected reports???

Maybe we should mothball the entire Line 1 and wait to that point to satisfy analphabets, which still can't make sense of a simple sentence by OPRET a long time ago, when it said that ridership for the "system" was expected to be 200,000... But nooooooooooo!! Now we have to listen to morons that can't put two and two together and READ, while using their brains to discern the information conveyed within...

Morons that can't seem to understand the difference of road and peripheral construction from actual infrastructure that belongs solely for the Metro system...

Morons that think, we'll create a "privately" administrated police to handle security and order for the Metro, unlike the same protection and order provided by the NYC Police to the MTA systems, which are PAID for by the city and state...


NOOOOOOOOO!!!! Here we have to argue about how the DR is able to build a Metro at 50 million per km constructed, over any other Metro built around the world at jaw dropping higher rates than our third world capacity...


No Mr. Lu, this is about enough half data being used to feed into political motives and outright sensationalism, nothing more...

The Puerto Rico metro had to offer free rides to people to get puny little ridership numbers up, still today and years before it came into operations, it lacks behind the SD Metro on costs per Km to build, ridership and operational costs... All that in a US federal backed system that went to billions $$ till today...

The SD Metro is not even fully operational and yet it's potential down the line, is heralded in each and every nation that marvels in our capacity to bring it to reality and operations.

You want a system to pay for itself while only standing on the first leg and missing three limbs!!!

Just more of the same numbnucks that we had to deal with, on the first conceptual ideas of its construction...

So I guess that when you buy your car the dealer is also responsible to set up your garage for it at home??? Like so when you sell it, you'll bill the buyer for the garage you built for it as well???

So much garbage treated as facts!!!!
 

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
1,091
88
0
.....

Right here Mr. Lu! With the other half of the information the biased reporters use to attack the SD Metro system!

One can spot how memorizing education ends for these "reporters" in the DR.

How can you see one thing, yet totally ignore the facts along side your "unbiased" report? That's for the reporter in question on the article.

If every gov had to sit with each nutcase that "claims" to the Holy Grail, we would be in deep s**t today...

25,000 riders a day only beneficiaries of the SD Metro?!?! Ha! That's one for the records!! LOL!!!

He goes from numbers "Gathered" by particulars on ridership, than actual OPRET official numbers from automatic system reports installed to that end there...

What's next? The SD Metro has to compete for riders from the sea of motoconchos as well????

I think they feel it was best to let line 1 and sequential line 2 on the way to start construction, to sit idling until the complete system is built and the 200,000 riders can be matched to initial expected reports???

Maybe we should mothball the entire Line 1 and wait to that point to satisfy analphabets, which still can't make sense of a simple sentence by OPRET a long time ago, when it said that ridership for the "system" was expected to be 200,000... But nooooooooooo!! Now we have to listen to morons that can't put two and two together and READ, while using their brains to discern the information conveyed within...

Morons that can't seem to understand the difference of road and peripheral construction from actual infrastructure that belongs solely for the Metro system...

Morons that think, we'll create a "privately" administrated police to handle security and order for the Metro, unlike the same protection and order provided by the NYC Police to the MTA systems, which are PAID for by the city and state...


NOOOOOOOOO!!!! Here we have to argue about how the DR is able to build a Metro at 50 million per km constructed, over any other Metro built around the world at jaw dropping higher rates than our third world capacity...


No Mr. Lu, this is about enough half data being used to feed into political motives and outright sensationalism, nothing more...

The Puerto Rico metro had to offer free rides to people to get puny little ridership numbers up, still today and years before it came into operations, it lacks behind the SD Metro on costs per Km to build, ridership and operational costs... All that in a US federal backed system that went to billions $$ till today...

The SD Metro is not even fully operational and yet it's potential down the line, is heralded in each and every nation that marvels in our capacity to bring it to reality and operations.

You want a system to pay for itself while only standing on the first leg and missing three limbs!!!

Just more of the same numbnucks that we had to deal with, on the first conceptual ideas of its construction...

So I guess that when you buy your car the dealer is also responsible to set up your garage for it at home??? Like so when you sell it, you'll bill the buyer for the garage you built for it as well???

So much garbage treated as facts!!!!



Dude, what????????

Yo?

What???




Mr. Lu
 

ExtremeR

Silver
Mar 22, 2006
3,078
328
0
The main source for that article in Clave Digital is Metro detractor for almost its conception, Osiris de Leon...That should say it all...
 

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
1,416
40
0
I have an idea that those "crackpots" sitting around government offices waiting for some overly-busy government employee to give them answers is being supported by foreign interests, so their purposes have no relevance, right PICHARDO?

Meanwhile, after the botellas got to the office at 10, it's now 12 and time to go for a 3 hour lunch at Porter House, come back to the office, check out their e-mail and the "Chica of the Day" on www.quemamis.com, send a congratulatory e-mail to Leonel on his fine and productive trip to Libya, and get their chauffeur and bodyguards ready for the trip home.......
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Anyone have the Cliff Notes version of PICHARDOS post?
Yes. I do.

07-minister.jpg
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,510
3,202
113
The main source for that article in Clave Digital is Metro detractor for almost its conception, Osiris de Leon...That should say it all...
To many people on DR1, Osiris is something of a God. :surprised
 

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
1,091
88
0
....

To many people on DR1, Osiris is something of a God. :surprised

Not a God, but at least he provides a viable counter-argument.

For a Democratic society to grow you need public discourse...


Too bad no one listens...



Mr. Lu
 

tflea

Bronze
Jun 11, 2006
1,839
164
63
Ugly

I love the metro idea.
They should call it Movimiento de Idiotas Efectivamente y Rapidamente del Destino Ahorita:
(MIERDA)
 

tflea

Bronze
Jun 11, 2006
1,839
164
63
surely

Someone must have a better one than that weak-arsed thing, submitted quickly.