Here is an interesting throwback to the old old days in the DR. 
irate:
New York Times: Santo Domingo -- Ward of the Marines; Nov. 30, 1919
irate:New York Times: Santo Domingo -- Ward of the Marines; Nov. 30, 1919
- Thread starter NALs
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When the Americans Ruled
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NALs, this is where you shine.
Thank you for sharing this Very interesting piece of history. It is truly appreciated.
I love this stuff.
Thank you for sharing this Very interesting piece of history. It is truly appreciated.
I love this stuff.
i'm surprised nals posted this. well worth reading. a business friend has told me "the more things change, the more they stay the same".
take advantage of your innate strengths and you'll do well.
take advantage of your innate strengths and you'll do well.
This wonderful occupation paved the way for the Trujillo dictatorship with the help of the American created Guardia Nacional Dominicana.
I am not sure that you can put the blame for the Trujillo dictatorship on the occupation.
The failure of the local government, post-occupation, allowed the family to consolidate their power, plus the vicious effectiveness of the gangs they sponsored and the effective personal contacts nurtured by Trujillo all seemed to add up to their ascendancy.
Nothing so simple as "blame it on the Americans".
HB
The failure of the local government, post-occupation, allowed the family to consolidate their power, plus the vicious effectiveness of the gangs they sponsored and the effective personal contacts nurtured by Trujillo all seemed to add up to their ascendancy.
Nothing so simple as "blame it on the Americans".
HB
Well, I do think that you can blame the US for Trujillo. He was certainly KEPT in power by the US, financially supported, backed ... etc.... because he was on the RIGHT side of things...
NALS, thanks for this and could you also find some clips on the US occupation of Haiti at the same time? I think that was the precursor as the Haitians had assassinated their president and were marching down the main street with his head on a spike.
The take over of both sides of the Island was to stabilize perhaps but also to get control of the customs house to continue paying back the reparations that France was still extracting from Haiti for her liberty.
NALS, thanks for this and could you also find some clips on the US occupation of Haiti at the same time? I think that was the precursor as the Haitians had assassinated their president and were marching down the main street with his head on a spike.
The take over of both sides of the Island was to stabilize perhaps but also to get control of the customs house to continue paying back the reparations that France was still extracting from Haiti for her liberty.
I agree. Trujillo plotted his own rise to power-neither the Americans nor anyone else had to urge him on. The American State Department was against Trujillo's rise to power. However, there were definately elements of the American military that were pro-Trujillo. Trujillo had planned his take over years in advance.
The Americans did not take-over Haiti to facilitate repayment of reparations to France. President Wilson had other reasons. Really, Anne. You seem obsessed with this (Reparations) issue.
yes, I guess I am... restorative justice and all that
i doubt that you know the mind of President Wilson
i doubt that you know the mind of President Wilson
only HAITI of all the nations in this hemisphere had to pay the colonial powers for her freedom. And that was done with the collusion of the US which was still a slave holding nation at the time of Haiti's independence in 1804.
MAKING THE WORLD SAFE FOR HYPOCRISY: The American History You're Not Supposed To Know: 1915-1916: Dangerous Singers, Lynching Jews and Niggers Speaking French!
MAKING THE WORLD SAFE FOR HYPOCRISY: The American History You're Not Supposed To Know: 1915-1916: Dangerous Singers, Lynching Jews and Niggers Speaking French!
No, certainly not the only source
This comes after my Bachelors Degree in Poliltical Science from Middlebury College and then the City University of New York. And my graduate work at Columbia. And graduate studies in Guatemala, France, Tahiti, Australia, Mexico and Costa Rica.
You, I perceive, are only educated in one language, from the Master's book.
Good Lord! This is what you read to learn about history?!!!
This comes after my Bachelors Degree in Poliltical Science from Middlebury College and then the City University of New York. And my graduate work at Columbia. And graduate studies in Guatemala, France, Tahiti, Australia, Mexico and Costa Rica.
You, I perceive, are only educated in one language, from the Master's book.
The only thing that I regret is that the Americans left and left us with this mess we have in our hands today. The second thing that I regret is that Lyndon Johnson pulled out the Marines again in 1965.
Sometimes I dream about what our island could be today if we stayed American. At the very least we would have matched Taiwan and South Korea's success. But having much greater resources than both of those countries we would have been the gem of the world.
Sorry if I cause any of our neo-nationalists to vomit. I am a Dominican who loves the American flag first.
Golo
Sometimes I dream about what our island could be today if we stayed American. At the very least we would have matched Taiwan and South Korea's success. But having much greater resources than both of those countries we would have been the gem of the world.
Sorry if I cause any of our neo-nationalists to vomit. I am a Dominican who loves the American flag first.
Golo
There probably would have been some trade-offs, Golo. While the quality of life might have been improved had the US stayed, there are the issues of independence and self-determination to consider.
One could make many conjectures about what might have evolved from a long-term US occupation, even perhaps the possibility of the DR becoming a state. However, the political climate in the US during those times weren't particularly conducive to expanding the US empire, nor was there any real popular support among Dominicans.
The bottom line is, it probably would have been a very contentious move, and one that would have lead to years of conflict.
By the way, is there anyone who has read a history book besides Ogre? It seems not.
One could make many conjectures about what might have evolved from a long-term US occupation, even perhaps the possibility of the DR becoming a state. However, the political climate in the US during those times weren't particularly conducive to expanding the US empire, nor was there any real popular support among Dominicans.
The bottom line is, it probably would have been a very contentious move, and one that would have lead to years of conflict.
By the way, is there anyone who has read a history book besides Ogre? It seems not.
Only conjecture, but would not the DR likely have evolved very similar to PR under US rule? Sort of makes my opinion as thank God they did not
And for Ogre, PLEASE keep posting, I wish there was a separate forum strictly for DR History, I find it fascinating and there is just not enough written material for my taste, especially in English
Annie, I really enjoy your posts also, but the "slant" of the US being responsible for so many ills and need for reparations is, well not in my belief
And for Ogre, PLEASE keep posting, I wish there was a separate forum strictly for DR History, I find it fascinating and there is just not enough written material for my taste, especially in English
Annie, I really enjoy your posts also, but the "slant" of the US being responsible for so many ills and need for reparations is, well not in my belief
I agree that I hold the US responsible for a lot.... but then, I am American and so I have both the right and the duty, I think, to point out where I think my country was wrong.
I know that the US has done many good things, perhaps lots of good things. But I do not think that our foreign policy in this hemisphere has been one of our greatest bright achievements. I only post so that others may be informed. And, yes, I acknowledge that I have indeed been in a protest mode against US imperialism all my life.
I agree that it is lucky for the DR that they are not paved over and Walmarted like Puerto Rico, which has never had a day of independence.
I know that the US has done many good things, perhaps lots of good things. But I do not think that our foreign policy in this hemisphere has been one of our greatest bright achievements. I only post so that others may be informed. And, yes, I acknowledge that I have indeed been in a protest mode against US imperialism all my life.
I agree that it is lucky for the DR that they are not paved over and Walmarted like Puerto Rico, which has never had a day of independence.
I'll throw this factoid out there. Back in the late 1860's when U.S. Grant was President, America wanted to build a naval base in Samana. A treaty was worked out and the Dominicans voted to become a US territory. The treaty failed by 1 vote in the US Senate. That my friends is just how close DR came to being a US territory. Imagine how things would have turned out if that occurred.
Yes, OGRE is not the only one who has read some history.
In addition to Mona Pens, there are two ones that I have read --- but neither cover that era.. just the later invasion.
One is Overtaken by Events, by John Martin who was the Ambassador here under JFK
and the other is Santo Domingo, Revolt of the Damned, by Dan Kurzman, who was a correspodant for the Washington Post at the time of the second invasion... I confess that I have not finished this one, although it is well written-
and of course Feast of the Goat, but that is fiction
Alas, I do not read Spanish fast enough to do it for pleasure... only enough to keep up with the daily news that I need for work.
In addition to Mona Pens, there are two ones that I have read --- but neither cover that era.. just the later invasion.
One is Overtaken by Events, by John Martin who was the Ambassador here under JFK
and the other is Santo Domingo, Revolt of the Damned, by Dan Kurzman, who was a correspodant for the Washington Post at the time of the second invasion... I confess that I have not finished this one, although it is well written-
and of course Feast of the Goat, but that is fiction
Alas, I do not read Spanish fast enough to do it for pleasure... only enough to keep up with the daily news that I need for work.
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