What's with the attitude?

Mauricio

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Nov 18, 2002
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I live currently in Holland, preparing to go back to Santo Domingo soon. Here in Holland more and more dutch natives are complaining about immigrants (mostly muslims) who dislike the dutch culture, dutch habits and dutch way of thinking and doing things, but instead of staying in their own country / culture they insist in living in Holland, trying to impose their way of thinking and living to 'us' natives or make the life of natives around them miserable.

In a certain way i see more and more of this attitude on this forum. I haven't been on this portal too often in the past years, since being back in Europe, but as a preparation to go back I am reading often again and posting questions now and then. However, I see more and more posts ranting about dominicans, dominican habits and the dominican culture. One thing I think I learned while living in the Dominican Republic is that I am the guest. I tried to realize I am not in MY country, but I am an immigrant. I tried not to make the same error the immigrants in Holland make (in my opinion). Things go differently in the Dominican Republic than they go back home, including for example the way some Dominicans try to get as much out of a potential customer (on the short term) as possible. That's their way of doing business and who I am to criticize it, if I don't like it I am free to go back to my country and live according to the standards I am used to.

During the years I lived in Santo Domingo I had my part of people taking advantage of me, trying to steal from me, and sometimes it worked for them, mostly due to my own ignorance. Do I like it? No, but the one who chose to live here was me, so I guess it would be my responsibility to play according to the rules instead of criticizing or ranting.

Just my opinion,

gr. Mauricio
 
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waytogo

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Great observation!!! When in Rome???...[/QUOT

But the problem here is that there are no rules, no moral boundries, and very little REAL law with any kind of substance. Does enjoying living in the D.R mean we have to act Dominican? Behave Dominican? Not state are views and values? I think not.
 

waytogo

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I live currently in Holland, preparing to go back to Santo Domingo soon. Here in Holland more and more dutch natives are complaining about immigrants (mostly muslims) who dislike the dutch culture, dutch habits and dutch way of thinking and doing things, but instead of staying in their own country / culture they insist in living in Holland, trying to impose their way of thinking and living to 'us' natives or make the life of natives around them miserable.
gr. Mauricio

It also sounds as if the Muslims you speak of are actually making waves, trying to impose their way of thinking and living to your countrymen or make the life of natives around them miserable.
Do you really think the ex pats and Europeans here are attempting the same? There is a lot of ranting and raving on this forum about the ways here, that is our way of venting amongst ourselves. I really don't think we harrass our neighbors.
We vent here because it is the only thing we can do. And we share our views, not impose our will on the natives around us. Is that really what you think we do here?
 

Mauricio

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It also sounds as if the Muslims you speak of are actually making waves, trying to impose their way of thinking and living to your countrymen or make the life of natives around them miserable.
Do you really think the ex pats and Europeans here are attempting the same? There is a lot of ranting and raving on this forum about the ways here, that is our way of venting amongst ourselves. I really don't think we harrass our neighbors.
We vent here because it is the only thing we can do. And we share our views, not impose our will on the natives around us. Is that really what you think we do here?

No, I don't think they are attempting the same, that's why I said: in a certain way. I'm talking about the attitude and used the muslim immigrants in Holland as an analogy. I think most immigrants come to the DR by own choice. But some posts show (in my opinion) a deep disrespect of the average dominican, 'who knows nothing, is ignorant, irresponsible, and has a lack of initiative. First of all I think it's beside the truth (lots of dominicans I know are all the opposite, but I am sure we all agree on that) and for those experiences where we have been taken advantage of or being mistreated by Dominicans, I think it's very good and important to share those experiences and ask advices, etc., but I wonder if it is necessary to include ranting and show dislike of the locals
 

waytogo

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But some posts show (in my opinion) a deep disrespect of the average dominican, 'who knows nothing, is ignorant, irresponsible, and has a lack of initiative.

But that is not of our making. Who let this happen over centuries?
I believe anyone, ANYPLACE, who honestly feels they have been abused, mentally, physically or financially, needs to vent or something much more serious could happen. At least this forum is a safe place to do this without anyone getting hurt. I for one would have a deep disrespect and dislike for anyone who cheated, lied, or stole from me. It doesn't matter if I am here in the D.R. or in the U.S. of A. By staying silent is saying that you accept that behavior. I have Dominican friends here that I love dearly, but they are also educated and have moral substance.

I have to wonder how many forums there are in different countries that rant about their surroundings. Ranting is a good thing, as long as it is kept to words of a non violent nature, as here on this forum.
 
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Sep 22, 2009
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Maurico,

I always used to feel that way when I heard the UK, German and Swiss expats living in Manhattan in a corporate flat, complaining about and poking fun at the US and its citizens. I used to feel like: "ummm WHO are you exactly?"

That said, I have lived and worked in Zurich, Frankfurt and London for lengthly periods of time. I now have been here in DR for nearly 6 years. Here is the thing: The "complaining" and "pot shots" you discuss is a natural effect of expatriation. You have to think of it as a romantic relationship. The first few weeks or months are amazing. You love everything -- it's all so peachy. Then, over time, this fades. The sex gets dull, you start bickering all time, etc. Maybe you even consider infidelity. Eventually, you reach a point where everything the person does gets on your last nerve. You're on the phone with your buddies at work badmouthing your girl and just complaining about her in general.

This is more or less the same for expats. You see, in an "ideal" world, we would get out of the relationship. But leaving is not always an option! Maybe some of us want to really try and work it out with our significant other. Maybe the good outweighs the bad? Depends -- every situation is unique.

It is part of the Human Condition to "complain". AND we, as humans, need a vehicle (medium) for this. Catharsis? Psychoanalysis? Who knows, but it is generally healthy to get your frustrations out. Over the years, we have learned that the "group" is the best way to achieve this. Don't be offended.
 
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jrhartley

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if nobody complained nothing in the world would change - mind you it takes a lot of complaining to change things lol
 

donP

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False Comparison

I'm talking about the attitude and used the muslim immigrants in Holland as an analogy.
There is little similarity between the muslims in Holland and the various nationalities of expatrriates here.
Whereas the muslims in Europe are protected by European constitutional rights
and democratic laws, the rights of foreigners in this country very often end at a fiscal's office.... :tired:

donP
 

Chirimoya

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donP - the last thing we need here is a debate about Muslims in Europe. :D

Mauricio, a lot of the things that expats bitch and moan about (corruption, inefficiency, driving habits, petty dishonesty, etc.) are also concerns commonly expressed by Dominicans who care about their country and are not blinded by patriotism. Just read the local online newspaper comment columns and you'll see it for yourself.
 
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As soon as people move to another country they start thinking they know best especially when they move to a 3rd world country. They think that their new home should be like their old country. In the case of expats it's because they want to see improvements and don't understand that evolution and progress take time. This is the same all over the world.
In Holland the muslims want to go back to the dark ages and the Dutch are against that even though they're kind of helping them. I grew up in Holland.
Do agree with the fact that one has to live by the rules of the country one is living in. If people can't bitch they're not happy just look at it that way.
Groetjes
 
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One of the objectives of this forum is to offer an objective and comprehensive understanding of what it is like to live in and to visit the Dominican Republic.

There are many posters, each with their own perspective of life here. It is up to the readers to interpret postings, and then decide for themselves which points of view are the most meaningful.

In that regard, I think DR1 has done a very good job. The attitudes reflected on this forum are the attitudes developed by people living, working, and visiting here on a regular basis. They are based on real life experiences, and represent a fair cross-section of opinions.
 

Redscot

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I agree with the element that it is human nature to complain and vent, and this forum is certainly as good a place for that as any. I just think one should be careful with the tone of the complaint at times, mindful not to disparage our adopted country and it's inhabitant's.

I have a brother in law, Dominican, who lives in New York and has made a nice life for himself and his daughters, who constantly rails against the U.S. To me he comes across as hypocritical at times even if some of his complaints are valid.
 

Chirimoya

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Any more references to Muslims in Europe will be removed. Please let's stick to discussing expats in the DR.
 
Sep 22, 2009
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donP - the last thing we need here is a debate about Muslims in Europe. :D

Mauricio, a lot of the things that expats bitch and moan about (corruption, inefficiency, driving habits, petty dishonesty, etc.) are also concerns commonly expressed by Dominicans who care about their country and are not blinded by patriotism. Just read the local online newspaper comment columns and you'll see it for yourself.

Chiri,

Overlooked by most, but a very intelligent comment. Duly noted!

ERM
 

Mauricio

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I agree with the element that it is human nature to complain and vent, and this forum is certainly as good a place for that as any. I just think one should be careful with the tone of the complaint at times, mindful not to disparage our adopted country and it's inhabitant's.

I have a brother in law, Dominican, who lives in New York and has made a nice life for himself and his daughters, who constantly rails against the U.S. To me he comes across as hypocritical at times even if some of his complaints are valid.

I think Redscot's comment summarize what I mean. I fully agree that it's good to vent frustrations and this portal is definitely a very good place to share those things, but it's the tone of voice (at sometimes) that make me sometimes even feel uncomfortable. I share with my (dominican) wife sometimes the hilarious things I read here (like the video of the guy that fakes two times in 5 minutes an epileptic attack) or the story of the school that closed due to the rain the day before...:D) and we laugh about it but at times I think, well I don't think she would like to read the way us foreigners talk about the country / the people that are receiving us in their country.

Sorry for the analogy of the european situation, wasn't meant to offend any ethnic group.

gr. Mauricio
 

Chirimoya

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Thanks Mauricio, it wasn't so much the potential for causing offence as the very real risk of a non-DR related discussion.
 

oriole100

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I think many Expat's move here for the freedom from rules, they don't have at home. Example, we live in a condo. Some of the owners, think everything has to be done by the book. We think live and let live. If you have a beach towel on the railing, no big deal. Don't hang all you clothes there. Your in the DR. The rules at home don't apply. Everything is harder and takes longer. Sometimes much, much longer. It's no quicker for the Dominican. They are not happy with the way things are but....The longer you live here, the more you learn how to handle thing. Your an Expat. not a Dom. Your actually treated better then a Dom. by the Police and Gov., unless it's a legal matter. Sometimes you want to pull your hair out. I think some of the things they do in the US are crazy to. I jump up and down about that to. We've lived here for 6 years. It's easier now, but it will never be as easy as home. If you think so, come to visit but don't come to stay. You won't be happy. Just a thought.
 
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