Senegal offers land to Haitians
I hope they know what type of financial/political commitment this requires. :surprised
I hope they know what type of financial/political commitment this requires. :surprised
- Thread starter NALs
- Start date
Senegal offers land to Haitians
I'm not familiar with Senegal so I started looking around for information on it From what I was able to gather they are improving their financial status but like DR this is a work in progress. They are still some ways off from financial stability. Their offer is unexpected and took me by surprise.
Haiti (149) has higher development indicators than Senegal (166), according to UNDP. The DR is in 90th place on the Human Development Rankings for 2009.
Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)
Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)
The only thing that is "great" about this is the gesture of solidarity, but that's pretty much it.
First, how are the Haitians suppose to get there? The Senegalese president has not sent an airplane or boat/ship to Haiti, at least its nowhere to be seen in the news. Unless Haitians are very good swimmers, chances are that not even one Haitian will make it there.
Second, judging by all the reports, the most miserable people right now are Haitians that live in the cities. Since when does young urban people are willing to move to "the middle of nowhere" with no prospects for jobs?
Third, the Senegalese offer, despite appearing to be of good gesture, seems to me to be a highly irresponsible act. They didn't put a limit, even considering accepting mass number of peoples. Considering the situation Senegal finds itself in economic/social terms, my guess is that they simply don't know what they are getting themselves into or they don't expect many Haitians to accept to the offer.
The only thing Haitians have going for them in Senegal, in my opinion, is that they will be in an Afro-Francophone country similar to Haiti. Everything else is not so clear.
Senegal
Median Age: 18.6
Urban: 42%
Life Expectancy: 59 years
Literacy: 39.3%
GDP Per Capita: US$1,600
Labor Force: 4.973 million
Unemployment: 48%
Main Occupation: Agriculture 77.5%
Haiti
Median Age: 20.2
Urban: 47%
Life Expectancy: 61
Literacy: 52.9%
GDP Per Capita: 1,300
Labor Force: 3.693 million
Unemployment: N/A
Main Occupation: Agriculture 66%
For comparison sake:
Dominican Rep
Median Age: 24.9
Urban: 69%
Life Expectancy: 73.7
Literacy: 87%
GDP Per Capita: 8,200
Labor Force: 4.119 million
Unemployment: 14.1%
Main Occupation: Services 63%
I think the Haitians are better off staying in Haiti than going to Senegal, if the international community become serious in developing Haiti. On the other hand, having 2 or 3 million Haitians leave Haiti would facilitate Haiti's reconstruction, albeit not by much. Haiti's economy is valued at a little over $11 billion, which means that in order for Haiti to equalize the level of wealth of the DR, Haiti will need to lose 7 million people (77% of the current population). And this is assuming that Haiti can still produce $11 billion, which at this time is a big no.
It's completely unrealistic, and even if it was possible, for the country in Africa to absorb these people would be an economic suicide, not to mention all the other social problems that will rise from this.
Beautiful Senegal
Senegal is the most stablecountry in Africa and a very beautiful country too, and Im sure Hatians who chose to live their will be very happy. But i do think that Hatians should stay and develop their own country before the French take it back, lol. Haiti has a great yet painful history and it would be a tragedy for that History to be lost. That doesnt mean that Hatians shouldnt consider the Senegalese proposal. The senegal are a very gracious people
Senegal is the most stablecountry in Africa and a very beautiful country too, and Im sure Hatians who chose to live their will be very happy. But i do think that Hatians should stay and develop their own country before the French take it back, lol. Haiti has a great yet painful history and it would be a tragedy for that History to be lost. That doesnt mean that Hatians shouldnt consider the Senegalese proposal. The senegal are a very gracious people
Thats what I meant to say Sheba, they are indeed very gracious and proud people with a strong mind and a very sofisticated history (they had universities while Europe was still in the Dark ages) which they carrry in their harts and minds and thats the reason that they are one of the few stable countries in Africa at the moment.
Having been to both countries frankly traveling through Haiti was like being back in Africa (landscape, weather, lack of infrastructure)...I would think the Haitians may be proud folks and not really want to leave their country unless it's to a land of many opportunities, like the DR, Miami (via the yolas) etc. It is a nice gesture though, maybe France will offer employment opportunities or migration to France as a mea culpa for being brutal occupants of Haiti....?
Since the french has been in the news for many years wanting to unify Haiti and Dominican Republic now is the moment for them to make a nice gesture by offering the Haitians what this African nation is doing. Come on France shows us how much you care for Haiti.
Haitians in Senegal...just a passing thought?
Since this thread was started I have had some thoughts about what would be the benefits of Haitians going to Senegal.
My opinion:
This is a classic example where people underestimate the power, value and necessity of cultural similarities to facilitate and smooth sail change in any adaptation process but hats off to the president of Senegal for making the offer and actually putting himself on the line. However, having Haitians who have been left homeless and/or without families due to the devastating quake possibly move to Senegal would not be an easy adaptation to their new environment regardless of the few cultural similarities (in my opinion) it shares with this West African country.
First of all, it's too far away. I think if Haitians decide to leave or were given options, it would be comforting to them to know that they are somewhere close to Haiti should they need or choose to return in the near future for whatever reason. In my opinion, the three primary cities where the largest community of the Diaspora lives-Miami, New York City (and surrounding area) and Montreal as well as the French Antilles are more ideal locations. From an economic stand point, the cities where the Haitian Diaspora lives would be most ideal whereas the French Antilles- Martinique and Guadeloupe would have much less opportunity for Haitians. Prior to the natural disaster, Haitians that could possibly leave usually had their destination focused on the US and Canada and were very aware of the adaptation process and lifestyle change due to the information and feedback from their relatives and even tourists (foreigners). It's that whole perception that 'life is better elsewhere'. How much does the the average Haitian know about Senegal? My guess is very little.
The French Antilles- Martinique and Guadeloupe would be a possibility as well because there is already a small community of Haitians there and also if France wants to lend a helping hand to one of its former colonies, this could be one of its contributions. Martinique and Guadeloupe currently are overseas French colonies/territories aka 'un DOM' meaning 'd?partement fran?ais d'outre-mer'. I think from a cultural and linguistic point of view Haitians have much more in common with Martinicans and Guadeloupeans as being part of the French mosaic in the Caribbean than with the Senegalese. Haitian culture is strong and very deep rooted and part of that cultural aspect is their language, Haitian Creole. All Haitians learn Creole but not necessarily French. Many only have the opportunity to learn French if they attend school or when they leave Haiti. Although Martinique and Guadeloupe have their own Creole, Haitians, Martinicans and Guadeloupeans can understand each other and of course worst case scenario they can speak in French. The French Antilles meaning Haiti, Martinique and Guadeloupe have some cultural aspects in common due to their history, the biggest difference is Martinique and Guadeloupe never became independent nations.
Ideally, Haitians need to stay in Haiti to rebuild the country. Aside from the tremendous loss of human life, Haiti also lost many of its future generation of intellectuals who for sure would have made a difference in reshaping the country. As many noted visible change in many forms was starting to take place for the first time in decades. That change is not only a change in political strategy but it's also a change in mindset which is imperative for Haiti. Therefore, to have a mass exodus of people leave that would be part of that new generation of Haitians would not be in the country's best interest. Haitians need to rebuild Haiti or start from scratch as some say with the help of the international community.
.........................................................
Then I did some follow up and it turns out there was no formal offer extended by any government official in Senegal.
This article was posted two weeks ago on March 12, 2010 on Afrik.com
"No invitation to relocate Haitians in Senegal" - says Haiti Minister - Afrik.com : Africa news, Maghreb news - The african daily newspaper
There are many follow up articles about this offer by the President of Senegal and many classify his gesture as a political stunt. Also commentary by Senegalese about the President's offer classify it as ridiculous and Senegal is not that much better off than Haiti.
For the French speakers on the board, please read this blog commentary in Le Monde.fr, a prominent daily newspaper from France. I enjoyed it and found it right on point.
Le S?n?gal peut il aider Ha?ti ? - Dakar Paris - Blog LeMonde.fr
-MP.
Since this thread was started I have had some thoughts about what would be the benefits of Haitians going to Senegal.
My opinion:
This is a classic example where people underestimate the power, value and necessity of cultural similarities to facilitate and smooth sail change in any adaptation process but hats off to the president of Senegal for making the offer and actually putting himself on the line. However, having Haitians who have been left homeless and/or without families due to the devastating quake possibly move to Senegal would not be an easy adaptation to their new environment regardless of the few cultural similarities (in my opinion) it shares with this West African country.
First of all, it's too far away. I think if Haitians decide to leave or were given options, it would be comforting to them to know that they are somewhere close to Haiti should they need or choose to return in the near future for whatever reason. In my opinion, the three primary cities where the largest community of the Diaspora lives-Miami, New York City (and surrounding area) and Montreal as well as the French Antilles are more ideal locations. From an economic stand point, the cities where the Haitian Diaspora lives would be most ideal whereas the French Antilles- Martinique and Guadeloupe would have much less opportunity for Haitians. Prior to the natural disaster, Haitians that could possibly leave usually had their destination focused on the US and Canada and were very aware of the adaptation process and lifestyle change due to the information and feedback from their relatives and even tourists (foreigners). It's that whole perception that 'life is better elsewhere'. How much does the the average Haitian know about Senegal? My guess is very little.
The French Antilles- Martinique and Guadeloupe would be a possibility as well because there is already a small community of Haitians there and also if France wants to lend a helping hand to one of its former colonies, this could be one of its contributions. Martinique and Guadeloupe currently are overseas French colonies/territories aka 'un DOM' meaning 'd?partement fran?ais d'outre-mer'. I think from a cultural and linguistic point of view Haitians have much more in common with Martinicans and Guadeloupeans as being part of the French mosaic in the Caribbean than with the Senegalese. Haitian culture is strong and very deep rooted and part of that cultural aspect is their language, Haitian Creole. All Haitians learn Creole but not necessarily French. Many only have the opportunity to learn French if they attend school or when they leave Haiti. Although Martinique and Guadeloupe have their own Creole, Haitians, Martinicans and Guadeloupeans can understand each other and of course worst case scenario they can speak in French. The French Antilles meaning Haiti, Martinique and Guadeloupe have some cultural aspects in common due to their history, the biggest difference is Martinique and Guadeloupe never became independent nations.
Ideally, Haitians need to stay in Haiti to rebuild the country. Aside from the tremendous loss of human life, Haiti also lost many of its future generation of intellectuals who for sure would have made a difference in reshaping the country. As many noted visible change in many forms was starting to take place for the first time in decades. That change is not only a change in political strategy but it's also a change in mindset which is imperative for Haiti. Therefore, to have a mass exodus of people leave that would be part of that new generation of Haitians would not be in the country's best interest. Haitians need to rebuild Haiti or start from scratch as some say with the help of the international community.
.........................................................
Then I did some follow up and it turns out there was no formal offer extended by any government official in Senegal.
This article was posted two weeks ago on March 12, 2010 on Afrik.com
"No invitation to relocate Haitians in Senegal" - says Haiti Minister - Afrik.com : Africa news, Maghreb news - The african daily newspaper
There are many follow up articles about this offer by the President of Senegal and many classify his gesture as a political stunt. Also commentary by Senegalese about the President's offer classify it as ridiculous and Senegal is not that much better off than Haiti.
For the French speakers on the board, please read this blog commentary in Le Monde.fr, a prominent daily newspaper from France. I enjoyed it and found it right on point.
Le S?n?gal peut il aider Ha?ti ? - Dakar Paris - Blog LeMonde.fr
-MP.
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It is a moot point because it will probably never happen, but...
I was living in Senegal for 6 months of 2005.
It seems a peaceful but harsh place to live.
It reminds me of Haiti but without the rain which makes Haiti , for the most part, a lush green place.
Most people live in Dakar where there is little work and much poverty.
The countryside is a little more lush than the parched capital but it is tough to farm there compared to Haiti.
Senegal is a secular state but has a heavily Muslim culture - I wonder how Haitians would get on with that aspect. Fine, I would imagine.
I enjoyed being in Senegal, in fact I had a heck of a time but then again I had electricity and drinking water etc.. The good life, as in Haiti, is not available to most people.
I was living in Senegal for 6 months of 2005.
It seems a peaceful but harsh place to live.
It reminds me of Haiti but without the rain which makes Haiti , for the most part, a lush green place.
Most people live in Dakar where there is little work and much poverty.
The countryside is a little more lush than the parched capital but it is tough to farm there compared to Haiti.
Senegal is a secular state but has a heavily Muslim culture - I wonder how Haitians would get on with that aspect. Fine, I would imagine.
I enjoyed being in Senegal, in fact I had a heck of a time but then again I had electricity and drinking water etc.. The good life, as in Haiti, is not available to most people.
Presidente Abdoulay? Wade recibi? a los estudiantes----
Well, the president of Senegal came through on his word somewhat by receiving/ accepting one hundred and sixty-three Haitian students via granted scholarships to study in the country. The original promise was to grant a piece of land to Haitians if necessary but that caused some stir among the local population.
However, Wade did not back down from his commitment to helping Haitians who have lost virtually everything due to the earthquake. Since I am pro education in every way, shape and form, I think he needs to be commended for his commitment. Senegal is by no means a rich nation but I think the old Spanish adage applies here- hoy por ti ma?ana por m?.
I also found it interesting that in the article the term 'franc?s criollo' is used. In Senegal, French is the spoken langauge so there will be a learning curve language wise for these Haitian students.
Senegal recibe a j?venes haitianos - List?n Diario Digital
-MP.
Well, the president of Senegal came through on his word somewhat by receiving/ accepting one hundred and sixty-three Haitian students via granted scholarships to study in the country. The original promise was to grant a piece of land to Haitians if necessary but that caused some stir among the local population.
However, Wade did not back down from his commitment to helping Haitians who have lost virtually everything due to the earthquake. Since I am pro education in every way, shape and form, I think he needs to be commended for his commitment. Senegal is by no means a rich nation but I think the old Spanish adage applies here- hoy por ti ma?ana por m?.
I also found it interesting that in the article the term 'franc?s criollo' is used. In Senegal, French is the spoken langauge so there will be a learning curve language wise for these Haitian students.
Senegal recibe a j?venes haitianos - List?n Diario Digital
-MP.
Publicity stunt !!!!!!
I agree with Nals on every single point
Senegal has a lot of problems and is one of the poorest country in the world. Yes, number don't tell everything and Senegalese hospitality is legendary, but let's get real here : Have you seen the bodies of Senegalese washing ashore canary islands as they tried to reach Europe in hope of a better future ??
Senegal doesn't have the luxury to help anybody but themselves at the moment.
The country has made great stride the last couple of years and is politically stable, but there is still a loooooooooooong way to go.
I guess it is well done publicity stunt since we are talking about it
As far as students is concern, Dakar has good universities......when there isn't a 6 month strike :cheeky:
I agree with Nals on every single point
Senegal has a lot of problems and is one of the poorest country in the world. Yes, number don't tell everything and Senegalese hospitality is legendary, but let's get real here : Have you seen the bodies of Senegalese washing ashore canary islands as they tried to reach Europe in hope of a better future ??
Senegal doesn't have the luxury to help anybody but themselves at the moment.
The country has made great stride the last couple of years and is politically stable, but there is still a loooooooooooong way to go.
I guess it is well done publicity stunt since we are talking about it
As far as students is concern, Dakar has good universities......when there isn't a 6 month strike :cheeky:
Senegal takes in Haitian student refugees
Latest news, comment and reviews from the Guardian | guardian.co.uk, Sheriff Bojang Jr in Dakar, Thursday 14 October 2010
It is one of Africa's poorest countries, with simmering discontent over
power cuts and unemployment with nearly half the population living in
poverty. But Senegal has made good on a promise to give free homes and
education to a group of Haitian students who lost everything in January's
devastating earthquake.
Traditional dancers and singers * and the leaders of three African countries
* turned out to greet 163 Haitians who arrived in Dakar on Wednesday night.
The students stepped off a chartered plane to a rapturous welcome from
hundreds of people chanting: "Senegal for Haiti, Africa for Haiti."
Senegal's octogenarian president, Abdoulaye Wade, the president of
neighbouring Guinea-Bissau and the prime minister of Niger were also at the
welcoming ceremony.
Adonis Verad, a 24-year-old medical student from Port-au-Prince who lost his
entire family in the earthquake, was overcome with emotion. Punching his
fist in the air, he said: "I have heard people saying that Haitians are
originally from Senegal and right now I'm feeling that this is my root. I
can smile now after many months of tears and trauma."
Outside, dozens of Senegalese students held up signs reading: "Welcome to
the home of your ancestors."
But the scheme has been criticised as a grandiose gesture which the country
can ill afford. Nearly half the population is out of work and the average
wage is just $130 (?81) a month.
The Haitian students were driven in a motorcade to a reception hosted by
Wade, and then taken to the westernmost point of Africa, where a 49-metre
bronze statue of a family rising triumphantly from the ground looms over the
Atlantic.
"Your ancestors left here by physical force," Wade told the students. "You
have returned through moral force ? When the slaves embarked on the ships,
this is the last piece of African earth they saw ? Dear students, it is on
this point of land that sticks out farthest into the Atlantic that we have
chosen to receive you," he said. "You are neither strangers nor refugees.
You are members of our family."
The enormous monument, built by North Korean engineers, was unveiled this
year, and is supposed to symbolise Africa's renaissance. But, like the
relocation of the Haitians, it has received mixed reviews locally and has
come to represent government profligacy.
The Haitian students were selected from more than 2,000 applicants in what
officials described as a "very tough" selection process. They will benefit
from a scholarship and free housing from the Senegalese government.
Nelsen Menendez said he planned to study statistics. "All our universities
in Haiti are in ruins and we have spent months wondering how we were going
to get back to school. But then came President Wade's offer and we are very
grateful to him and the people of Senegal for standing by us," he said.
Wade has said that Senegal will pay for the students to complete their
studies, but the country's universities have become the focus for discontent
and are frequently paralysed by protests over the non-payment of
scholarships.
Armed police have been posted at the main university, while many Dakar
schools have been closed by flooding. Thousands of families displaced by
floods are also sheltering in schools across the country.
Aissatou Thioune, a third-year law student at the university, said: "It's a
good thing to help Haiti considering what it went through. But I don't think
giving scholarship to over 160 Haitian students to study in Senegal is the
best thing. Students here are facing so many difficulties and the government
should have helped them instead."
Every year, thousands of Senegalese brave the Atlantic to reach Europe in
flimsy wooden boats * just as many Haitians risk their lives trying to reach
Florida.
"We are giving the rest of the world a lesson in humanity. Senegal has shown
that it's in the hearts of the poor that you can find the gift of
generosity," historian Iba Der Thiam, vice-president of Senegal's national
assembly, told the Associated Press. "A country that is neither rich nor
developed has agreed to share the little it has with its brothers."
Latest news, comment and reviews from the Guardian | guardian.co.uk, Sheriff Bojang Jr in Dakar, Thursday 14 October 2010
It is one of Africa's poorest countries, with simmering discontent over
power cuts and unemployment with nearly half the population living in
poverty. But Senegal has made good on a promise to give free homes and
education to a group of Haitian students who lost everything in January's
devastating earthquake.
Traditional dancers and singers * and the leaders of three African countries
* turned out to greet 163 Haitians who arrived in Dakar on Wednesday night.
The students stepped off a chartered plane to a rapturous welcome from
hundreds of people chanting: "Senegal for Haiti, Africa for Haiti."
Senegal's octogenarian president, Abdoulaye Wade, the president of
neighbouring Guinea-Bissau and the prime minister of Niger were also at the
welcoming ceremony.
Adonis Verad, a 24-year-old medical student from Port-au-Prince who lost his
entire family in the earthquake, was overcome with emotion. Punching his
fist in the air, he said: "I have heard people saying that Haitians are
originally from Senegal and right now I'm feeling that this is my root. I
can smile now after many months of tears and trauma."
Outside, dozens of Senegalese students held up signs reading: "Welcome to
the home of your ancestors."
But the scheme has been criticised as a grandiose gesture which the country
can ill afford. Nearly half the population is out of work and the average
wage is just $130 (?81) a month.
The Haitian students were driven in a motorcade to a reception hosted by
Wade, and then taken to the westernmost point of Africa, where a 49-metre
bronze statue of a family rising triumphantly from the ground looms over the
Atlantic.
"Your ancestors left here by physical force," Wade told the students. "You
have returned through moral force ? When the slaves embarked on the ships,
this is the last piece of African earth they saw ? Dear students, it is on
this point of land that sticks out farthest into the Atlantic that we have
chosen to receive you," he said. "You are neither strangers nor refugees.
You are members of our family."
The enormous monument, built by North Korean engineers, was unveiled this
year, and is supposed to symbolise Africa's renaissance. But, like the
relocation of the Haitians, it has received mixed reviews locally and has
come to represent government profligacy.
The Haitian students were selected from more than 2,000 applicants in what
officials described as a "very tough" selection process. They will benefit
from a scholarship and free housing from the Senegalese government.
Nelsen Menendez said he planned to study statistics. "All our universities
in Haiti are in ruins and we have spent months wondering how we were going
to get back to school. But then came President Wade's offer and we are very
grateful to him and the people of Senegal for standing by us," he said.
Wade has said that Senegal will pay for the students to complete their
studies, but the country's universities have become the focus for discontent
and are frequently paralysed by protests over the non-payment of
scholarships.
Armed police have been posted at the main university, while many Dakar
schools have been closed by flooding. Thousands of families displaced by
floods are also sheltering in schools across the country.
Aissatou Thioune, a third-year law student at the university, said: "It's a
good thing to help Haiti considering what it went through. But I don't think
giving scholarship to over 160 Haitian students to study in Senegal is the
best thing. Students here are facing so many difficulties and the government
should have helped them instead."
Every year, thousands of Senegalese brave the Atlantic to reach Europe in
flimsy wooden boats * just as many Haitians risk their lives trying to reach
Florida.
"We are giving the rest of the world a lesson in humanity. Senegal has shown
that it's in the hearts of the poor that you can find the gift of
generosity," historian Iba Der Thiam, vice-president of Senegal's national
assembly, told the Associated Press. "A country that is neither rich nor
developed has agreed to share the little it has with its brothers."
All education after the primary level in Haiti is in FRENCH
So that anyone who has finished high school in Haiti can speak, read and write in French.
just registered...
person I know directed me to this forum....wanted insight into Haitian/DR history and current relationship.
been skimming the board and I have to ask, to the Dominican and DR-American people, what are you basing your comments about Haiti on?L
In this thread, there's a comment about Haitian college students and a possible learning curve when they go study in Senegal. French is the official and business language of Haiti. This is basic info. If you read any book, encyclopedia entry,etc about the country, the official language is listed in the first 4-5 sentences.
So frankly, if person can not know this, how can they claim to know anything about the country?
Read some other glaring factual errors about Haitian history written here on this forum. Are people repeating "stories" that they've heard, have people spent any time in Haiti or what? And if some of this info comes from books, what books are they?
person I know directed me to this forum....wanted insight into Haitian/DR history and current relationship.
been skimming the board and I have to ask, to the Dominican and DR-American people, what are you basing your comments about Haiti on?L
In this thread, there's a comment about Haitian college students and a possible learning curve when they go study in Senegal. French is the official and business language of Haiti. This is basic info. If you read any book, encyclopedia entry,etc about the country, the official language is listed in the first 4-5 sentences.
So frankly, if person can not know this, how can they claim to know anything about the country?
Read some other glaring factual errors about Haitian history written here on this forum. Are people repeating "stories" that they've heard, have people spent any time in Haiti or what? And if some of this info comes from books, what books are they?