Does the DR fail to use rebar in most of its construction like Haiti?

live_for_life

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It seems that if most construction of homes and businesses fail to use rebar in their concrete constuctions like Haiti then another big problem is waiting for the Dominican Republic like Haiti if a major earthquake hits the DR. The DR has as much seismic activity as Haiti for example in the Cibao and Samana regions as Haiti. I have read that those high rise buildings in Santo Domingo are a tragedy waiting to happen if a major earthquake hits the DR capitol because they are not builded to even handle a minor earthquake.
 

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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you must be hanging out only in barrios - they do not use rebars since it is more difficult to steal steel bars than a cement bag...
of course bars are used in normal construction, doh.
 

oriole100

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Oct 9, 2005
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They may not use as much as they schould, but they do use it. You can see the tops sticking out of most building so they can add another floor.
 

J D Sauser

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I've had to fight every day for the proper amounts and sizes of rebar being used in luxury villa construction in SPAIN. After my first trip here, I brought pictures to Spain, showing them how MUCH rebar they put in concrete HERE, the country they snob for being so "under developed".

Short, USUALLY the quantity is not something that would seem a rampant problem here.

What is, and I alluded to it in an other thread on a similar subject, that civil engineers and architects simply refuse to take some basic things like water lines and electricity channels into account, claiming that they are NOT plumbers or electricians -effectively trying to presume they are better than that. In countries with a heightened earthquake risk, like this one and some other Latin American countries I've lived in (Ecuador), it is customary to brace a brick or cinder block shell with poured rebar reinforced system of concrete columns and beams frame. Especially cinder blocks have a limited resistance to pressure and will crumble when disturbed by vibration. The framework is what holds the structure together. The problems occur when parts of these civil engineer calculated columns (pillars) are filled with water and sewer pipes and/or power cable channels instead of concrete and rebar because of the designers' failure to plan for spaces to lead these utilities thru.

What I am more concerned with, is roof construction. Actually, it is not so much the construction I am concerned with as much as again the "design" part. I have had the privilege not only to visit but live and work in many countries, but in none have I seen the strangely physics defying roof designs I seem to see dominating this country's skylines!
Universally, one would think that the consensus opinion would have been, that a roof is meant to not only shelter a home, but move water towards the OUTSIDE of the home. Apparently, Dominican architects have come to a contrary conclusion, as they seem absolutely unable to resist the temptation to lead at least some of the waters INWARDS, toward the center of the covered space, PREFERABLY onto a flat roof section. Besides creating issues issues of "comfort" in some rooms inside these residences, it will, over time affect the concrete's integrity, and further the rusting of rebar or mesh used in those concrete roofs.

... J-D.
 

Talldrink

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Jan 7, 2004
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Very interesting!

I had a Dominican man pour concrete for my walkways (including sidewalks, side of the house and some parts of the backyard) - and the SHORTCUTS they take are amazing to me!! Of course the concrete cracked as soon as it had the chance, so I will end up having to do it all over again... They are so used to trying to make do with less that alot of times they completely undermind the end results or small things like LONGEVITY!

Anyway, I have learned the hard way that is cheaper to do it right the first time than to do it twice...

@JD Saucer - it is sooooo hard to deal with architects in DR. My mother has had the same problem with this roof thing... Sometimes we feel like contractors over there are going to do what they want regardless of how you feel about it. Once built - you are stuck with it cause there is no money back or any recourse!
 

Robert

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I

The correct way is to mix the cement properly, which looks more like a paste than a watery solution, dump it into the mold, then use a vibrating device to get the concrete to completely settle into the mold.

Many of the structures that collapse, do so because the mix is bad.

This is a huge problem here, many builders have no clue about getting the cement to settle or how it should be mixed. Even when the instructions are on the bag, they ignore them and use the excuse... "That's how we always do it..."
 

bearcat

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Having built a few things I am amazed at the number of building I have seen built with #3 bar that code required #8,9 or 10. If a quake it SD the damage and death toll will drawf anywhere else in the world. It is not just barrio housing this is done in the areas of the well to do. Combine that with flat roofs failing to cover them so that they cure slowly and job sight mixed mud with suspect water and what you have are people on borrowed time; suject to God's mercy.
 

Talldrink

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Jan 7, 2004
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This is a huge problem here, many builders have no clue about getting the cement to settle or how it should be mixed. Even when the instructions are on the bag, they ignore them and use the excuse... "That's how we always do it..."

Robert, two things:

It seems that 'directions' are only there for decorations on ANY package! this is an issue both back in DR and here in the States. (and warranty forms are extra padding for packages, btw - LOL)

The second thing is: "thats how they have always done it" is right. As long as the structure is built and stays until they leave, it is fine with them.

Construction jobs or working with a contractor is a full time job for anyone, everywhere. If you are not THERE to watch it happen, it will get done the fastest and most convenient way for THEM.
 

AlterEgo

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Jan 9, 2009
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We're having a block wall put up on one section of our property, 10 blocks high. Sunday they dug the trench and today they poured the foundation of cement and rebar. My son-in-law is in construction at home in NJ and he was shaking his head at much of what he saw today - especially the mixing of the concrete and gravel kind of helter-skelter, no measuring, etc. His company happens to do a lot of this type of work because they build schools etc. When we left tonight he told my husband that the two of them could do a much better job.

Now we just have to hope they're finished by the time we go home......
 

bachata

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Aug 18, 2007
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How big was the earth quake we had in 2003? This is not enough proof that the construction in DR are much better than in Haiti.

JJ
 

La Profe_1

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Oct 15, 2003
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How big was the earth quake we had in 2003? This is not enough proof that the construction in DR are much better than in Haiti.

JJ

JJ, the Puerto Plata earthquake of 2003 was 6.5 on the Richter Scale. The one in Port au Prince was 7.0. There is a factor of 10x increase for each integer increase on the Richter Scale. So, a difference of .5 on the Richter Scale means that the earthquake in Port au Prince was 1/2 of 10 or 5 times stronger than the one in Puerto Plata in 2003. That is a significant difference.
 

bachata

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Woo, I never thought that .5 would make a big difference like that.

JJ
 

FireGuy

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Woo, I never thought that .5 would make a big difference like that.

JJ

The Richter Scale is not a linear scale but a base 10 logarithmic scale and as La Profe_1 said for an increase of one the amplitude increases by a factor of 10 and equally and maybe more importantly the energy released increases by an approximate factor of 31; for an increase of two the the amplitude increases by a factor of 100 and the energy released increases by an approximate factor of 961 (31 squared); for an increase of three the the amplitude increases by a factor of 1000 and the energy released increases by an approximate factor of 29791 (31 cubed) and so on.

The point is that relatively small increases in the numbers can release relatively large destructive powers.

Gregg
 

Chip

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Jul 25, 2007
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A couple of facts as I see them as an engineer here in the DR with some experience in bldg construction:

1. No matter what you do it may not be enough to prevent a 7.0+ earthquake from destroying your house.

2. Here in the DR, they know how to build a well built home that would put many homes built in the States and Europe to shame strenghtwise.

3. The quality and strength of your home will depend on the design. An engineer won't necessarly do a better job in the design than a maestro and vice versa.

4. NEVER LET CONTRACTOR, ARCHITECT, OR ENGINEER BUILD YOUR HOUSE FOR A LUMPS SUM PROJECT. NEVER!!!! The majority of them will cut back on the materials to maximize their profit. See that nice jipeta that the architect rides in? There goes all your rebar. Rather, contract an architect or engineer separately for the design of your house and let them know you already have someone to build it. Therefore there is no conflict of interest.

5. As with anything down here, references are gold. If someone knows and has seen a contractor build a house from ground up and seen the depth of the foundation and the amount of rebar that would be good news.
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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A couple of facts as I see them as an engineer here in the DR with some experience in bldg construction:

1. No matter what you do it may not be enough to prevent a 7.0+ earthquake from destroying your house.

2. Here in the DR, they know how to build a well built home that would put many homes built in the States and Europe to shame strenghtwise.

3. The quality and strength of your home will depend on the design. An engineer won't necessarly do a better job in the design than a maestro and vice versa.

4. NEVER LET CONTRACTOR, ARCHITECT, OR ENGINEER BUILD YOUR HOUSE FOR A LUMPS SUM PROJECT. NEVER!!!! The majority of them will cut back on the materials to maximize their profit. See that nice jipeta that the architect rides in? There goes all your rebar. Rather, contract an architect or engineer separately for the design of your house and let them know you already have someone to build it. Therefore there is no conflict of interest.

5. As with anything down here, references are gold. If someone knows and has seen a contractor build a house from ground up and seen the depth of the foundation and the amount of rebar that would be good news.
Pay attention, folks. ^^^Chip^^^ knows what he is talking about.

And from what I see, the better builders will use an actual gas-powered cement mixer and use a proper mix formula, and not just spread the materials on the ground.
 

Locoboy71

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Jul 27, 2007
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This is a big problem in DR. The bad construction is a combination of arrogance, ignorance and maybe a faulty teaching system in terms of architectural and engineering. A couple of years ago one of my uncles was going to build a house in DR, so he hired a architectural an engineering company. Before building the house (2 floors house) he asked for a copy of the design blue prints and a detail of the construction. Funny thing they didn't want to give him a copy for some illogical reason that my uncle didn't buy. So he was going to cancel the contract with the company, until they finally agreed to give him a copy. My uncle is not an engineer or architect, but he wanted to show it to a friend of his that is an architect who was also going to supervise the construction, unknown to them. He found over 25 flaws in the design some of which were critical mistakes. After my uncle's friend made corrections and recommendation to the design they gave him that same answers, "well that's how we do it here." So my uncle brought his friend to speak with the engineers-architect about the flaws, without them knowing who he was they started to give him so nonsense explanation and how it was fine and how this wasn't their first house, blah, blah. So my uncle's friend asked a few basic questions about the science/physics and how could it be possible that these law of science wouldn't apply to construction in DR. Then he gave them his business card, at that time he was working for a big architectural company in San Francisco and was part of team that was working in a project in Punta Canta. After they saw his credential they retracted some of the nonsense they were talking about and try to justify it by saying that "this is how is done in D.R. I'm not an engineer nor do I know anything about construction, but I would think that there are some basic general scientific requirements when it comes to constructing a building/house that do no change because you are in a different country. I'm not a gambler but I'll bet anything that the laws of physics don't just stop to exit in D.R.