1st/2nd/3rd/4th world definitions & descriptions

C

CES

Guest
Re: Sorry Jim, most people... (Jim :)

Jim, please give us the % of people in :

the DR living in accommodations over USD$100,000 -

the 'in-between' -

and those living hand to mouth -

Thank you,

. . . CES
 
H

hillbilly

Guest
Thisis a strange place, for sure...

Yes 5% of the population get 80+% of the income.
Yes, there is more visible wealth, more and better public services (yes, even with their deficiencies) and it is spread out over the country.
IN COMPARISON.

In Mexico or Guatemala or most of Central America, the differences between the capitol city and the rest of the country are huge. Here, not so. In fact, Santiago has a few things not available in Santo Domingo. But the point is that "modern conveniences"are readily available throughout the country. So, okey, you can't get water or electricity in some of the remoter rural areas, BUT you can get a phone!

Santiago has had a paved, international airport for 50 years. POP, Montecristi, Mao, La Romana, Azua all had landing strips a long time ago.

Therefore, it should be rather obvious that there is a reasonably 'comfortable' group of upper middle and upper class folks that do live fairly well, by most European or American or Canadian standards.
 
H

hillbilly

Guest
As I have said: There are a lot of nice

things here. BUT: 80% of the people DO NOT HAVE THEM.

Even in your beloved city of Boca Chica, "most"people will not have anything close to "First" world housing. They don't even have potible water in the taps...

And here, "most"people do live in the campo.

Perhaps you have put your finger on one of the major problems: Those millions of "have nots"want what the "haves"have!! there is the basis of your social unrest, your violence, your street crimes....the "I want mine!" complex...

Hb
 
D

Drake

Guest
Sarah -DR is not 3rd World!

Sarah. That was a very interesting article that you posted . It contained some very useful information. In many respects it can be applied to the DR. But I think that the DR holds a special place in this discussion. It should not be grouped in the category of 3rd World because that is a derogatory statement that does not give credit to the DR. Why describe the DR as country that has a third place position in the World when it is considered the economic flagship for Latin America. Second only to Chile. It has sustained positive economic growth for last seven years and has up to now not been heavily effected by the World recession.

The Dominican Campo dwellers are not as bad off as you might think. Most have electricity, drinking water, televisions, radios, decent clothes and shoes. Starvation is unheard of in this country. The majority of Dominicans are literate and posses a primary education. Unemployment is evident but not a problem like most countries as family or friends always chip in to help those in trouble.

This country has done well recently because it has dynamicized it's economy. Moving away from the traditional "Breakfast Economy" (the export of sugar, coffee, cacao, and cigars) to other industries like tourism and tax free zones. Not forgetting remittances from families in the US and Europe which is the third largest national income.

My point is do n't put the DR in a third World category when it is almost out of it.

By the way Happy Christmas to everyone living in, or associated with this beautiful island.
 
S

Sarah

Guest
Re: Sarah -DR is not 3rd World!

Drake,

Having lived in the campo for a year (a small village just to the east of Barahona) and making 18 trips (at last count) there over the past 8 years, I come here with 1st hand knowledge that YES the DR is a 3rd world country. I don't say that as a derogatory comment. To deny it only makes conditions worse. The elite that Jim hob knobs with are just that, the elite. And I suppose that the average Joe Traveler sees what he sees (not that Jim is average by any means). However, those who choose to venture outside the resorts, outside Santo Domingo (which I personally find to be loud/rude/dirty/unsafe/unapealing), will understand where I'm coming from.

The electricity they have is spliced off main wires running down the highway, not paid for by each home owner. They can't afford to pay for it. Water (used for washing) is found in a spigget in back of each house. OR in a trench that runs through the villages and into the fields, really intended for irrigation. Drinking water is trucked in and purchased by home owners daily, if they have the money to pay for it. If they don't, they drink water that is NOT potable from the spigget out back. Toilets are outhouses. Showers are sponge baths taken out back, sometimes right out in the open, sometimes in the "privacy" of a small tin structure. TVs/radios/clothes/shoes? True, readily available, and used until they can no longer be used! Starvation unheard of? How about the Haitian cane cutters and their families living in the bateys? I believe they're starving. Literate/primary education? Through 6th grade is "mandatory", but many areas do not have money to pay teachers, provide supplies, etc. Unemployment ... everyone does SOMETHING ... not sure that they always get paid.

Are you suggesting that a country whose people are supported by relatives and friends outside their country should not be considered 3rd world? This only further proves my point. The DR still has a long way to go before it is not considered 3rd world.

Sarah
 
H

hillbilly

Guest
How about 2?? Some of what you & Jim

have said is true, but the big BUT is that while you say that "most are literate with a primary school education." the fact remains that over half of the population over 5 years of age cannot read the headlines on a daily paper. Try it.

And claiming that the majority have potible water and electricity is a joke. Only the cities have these luxuries and then not at 80% even. Sure, there are some campos with lights, and some even have phones. but the majority, if you go out there and look, do not. Example. On the highway called the Tourist Highway from POP to Santiago, the majority of the houses did not get lights until two years ago. Water? None, except for some natural springs from the mountainside.. Bathrooms? Try and take a dump anywhere along the road....watch out for spiders biting your b---!

Sort of kidding but not much exageration there. And a final, parting, shot. The third World is not so much economics or GDPs, it is largely mental...and that is where the DR is, unfortunately a 3? World country....

HB
 
J

Jumday

Guest
Without question 3rd world.....

To review a few points from your post.

**It should not be grouped in the category of 3rd World because that is a derogatory statement that does not give credit to the DR.**

Why do you consider the grouping to be deragatory? The definition 3rd world simply makes reference to EXACTLY what the DR is in regard to economics and political maturity. I suspect you are attempting to be politically correct at the expense of accuracy.

**Why describe the DR as country that has a third place position in the World when it is considered the economic flagship for Latin America.**

Nonsense, justify this statement with creditable information. I can not think of any situation where the DR would be considered a flagship of Latin America, the economy is simply not large enough.

**Most have electricity, drinking water, televisions, radios, decent clothes and shoes.**

The electricity is generally stolen with illegal and dangerous hook-ups. I do not believe I have ever met a Dominican that drank the tap water.

**Unemployment is evident but not a problem like most countries as family or friends always chip in to help those in trouble.**

Here you aid the arguement for 3rd world status. First, is there creditable welfare, unemployment compensation, food stamps, job training programs? No....there is not. The population has no choice in hardtimes but to fall back on family. For those employed do you know what the average wage is? AMET police earn 5000 pesos a month (294USD) a nurse 7000 pesos a month (412USD) a clerk at plaza llama 3000 pesos a month (177USD). Are there those who earn a great deal more? Of couse....but this illustrates the reality.

**Not forgetting remittances from families in the US and Europe which is the third largest national income.**

Third largest income in the country is remittances. By definition this would indicate a 3rd world economy.

**My point is do n't put the DR in a third World category when it is almost out of it**

Unfortunately your point is illogical. The DR is far from being anything other than a 3rd world economy.

Regards,
 
A

arf

Guest
3rd world not PC

I think that 1st, 2nd and 3rd world are not really in use that much anymore, as they are seen as terms that can be "negative". What the DR is is a "Developing" country. Is that any better?
 
P

Pib

Guest
What's in a name? that a rose...

That sounds like the black Vs. African American discussion to me: utterly silly. The fact remains that the term does not change the person. I frown upon the use of derogatory names (like the N word), but I see nothing wrong with being called a 3rd world nation.

My friend D.D. (favorite phylosopher and amateur farmer :eek:) says that the "capitale?os" do not live in the Dominican Rep. There's some true in that. I tend to forget that there are not traffic jams in 99% of the Dominican territory right now (I made up the numbers). There is no internet in the vast majority of homes in DR. There's no electricity in a LOT of places nor plumbing. Let's not fool ourselves, if you believe that DR is not a 3rd world country you need to get out of Santo Domingo, go off the beaten path, why not go to "La Vere'a"? They don't know what the internet is, they haven't even heard about it. I promise you it will change your views, and that was just one example, I can count them by the thousands.

3rd world or not I love my country. So call it what you like, I will still love it.
 
J

Jim Hinsch

Guest
Re: Re-read previous message

And most people do not live in the campo, they live in the city:
Distribution (1990): 52% urban, 48% rural.
http://www.asd.k12.ak.us/Homepages/MPolanco/Domrep.html
 
J

Jim Hinsch

Guest
Re: That question is not relevant

That question is not relevant.

What is relevant, is that most people that come to visit the DR will not encounter what comes to mind when one thinks of a 3rd world country except in the extreme cases when one visits the campo. The existence of ghettos and poor people has little to do with perceptions of 3rd world. It has more to do with infrastructure and how modern.
 
L

L'avocat du Diable

Guest
DR IS A 3ER, WORLD COUNTRY

Yes, Dominican Republic is a 3er. world country. Are we blind or fools?
 
S

Sarah

Guest
Re: That question is not relevant

So Jim, please do elaborate on the infrastructure and how modern the DR is?
 
&

"The Tourist Watcher"

Guest
Re: Almost any house is worth US$100,000 in DR *DC*
 
&

"The Tourist Watcher"

Guest
Re: Third World Communications Dominican style

For those interested in where is Dominican Republic in communications, here is the latest:Based on 8,553,000 inhabitants

Total telephone lines(all types included) 1,840,000

Total wired lines 911,152

Total Cellular phones 705,431

Total digital cellular phones 200,000

Internet connections 31,376

On a per capita basis, and considering that a telephone line in The Dominican Republic covers more people per family household than industrialized nations because of the number of people in each household, phone coverage in DR is almost at full capacity. The figures included here are official figures by INDOTEL and Centro Nacional de Estadisticas, which in my opinion are underestimated by at least 10% or more, because they only count legal installations. There are thousands of illegal cellular phones which use computer technology to steal government lines. For instance, even our prisoners have full coverage.The Najayo prisoners phone company(owned by prisoners) uses about 100 cellulars. The calls are illegally billed to government offices which never checks the source of calls or the bills. They can call Japan at no cost but the monthly rental paid to the Colombian prisoner that owns the equipment. They use Motorolas, the best phone for illegal use.
TW
 
J

Jim Hinsch

Guest
Re: That question is not relevant

I think we all know what the current infrastructure is like. For example something like 7 international airports on a Caribbean island. Not what comes to mind when one thinks of "3rd world". Developing is better.
 
D

Doug

Guest
Re: That question is not relevant

Jim; I don't think the DR has 7 International Airports, 7 airports yes, but there have a certain criteria to be met before they can be called an internatioal Airport, but to even have 7 airports, capable of handling the types of aircrafts that they do handle and the amount of traffic that passes thru the island, hardly makes it seem as though it is a third world. I do not know what the term 3rd world is supposed to mean (I mean the proper meaning,) but the DR is very far from what I think of when I think of a third world countrie. When I think of 3rd world....I think of a place where alot, if not most of the population is starving, a place where transportation is limited, where telecommunications are almost non-existant, and the availability of most things that can be had in the USA, cannot be purchased or even available, the DR has all of these things and more!!!!!
 
D

Doug

Guest
Re: Sarah -DR is not 3rd World!

I don't think that calling the DR 3rd world is derogatory, wrong maybe, but even if it was....I really do not think it is a derogatory statement.....you are what you are.....to some I would be considered poor,....to some (a very few mind you...lol)might consider me rich. But if someone were to call me poor, I would not take offense.....I might just very well be, to thier standards....so to each thier own.....call me what you like......except a liar or a racist! Those I take offence to!
 
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