- Thread starter cibaenopuro
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57% of Dominicans live in poverty
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Baby bori: You are so wrong! The people that live in the places mentioned by Bachata are working people. The persons you refer to, those with a lot of bling and flash do not live in most of those areas.
I think you think you know more than you really do. Perhaps frustrations, I do not know, but you do hang with the wrong elements.
Regarding 1000 dollars a month and a member of NACO, no way. You need about $5000 a month to maintain that lifestyle.
A bank Worker at $800>>>??? Bull! Unless he is a teller or a messenger...
Mami make a whole lot more thatn $1000!!! You better believe it!
As for the divisions of the economic classes, I would say that those that spend more than 50% of their income on food are of the lower income brackets, but I have no pretentions of being an economist. I have seen people buying RD$5.00 of pollo and $1.00 of salsa and $2.00 of oil and so forth...that is poverty, in my estimation.
Do we have poverty? Oh my, just look around. It is there, unfortunately.
HB
I think you think you know more than you really do. Perhaps frustrations, I do not know, but you do hang with the wrong elements.
Regarding 1000 dollars a month and a member of NACO, no way. You need about $5000 a month to maintain that lifestyle.
A bank Worker at $800>>>??? Bull! Unless he is a teller or a messenger...
Mami make a whole lot more thatn $1000!!! You better believe it!
As for the divisions of the economic classes, I would say that those that spend more than 50% of their income on food are of the lower income brackets, but I have no pretentions of being an economist. I have seen people buying RD$5.00 of pollo and $1.00 of salsa and $2.00 of oil and so forth...that is poverty, in my estimation.
Do we have poverty? Oh my, just look around. It is there, unfortunately.
HB
Ahhhh, forgive me, I forgot to mention the ex-husband is very wealthy and member of a rich family. He gives them many "regalos". The young man is in Servicio Al Cliente, he told me how much he makes I'm not making it up.
Beeza is correct, money does not define class, if I meant class I meant it in a concerning finances, dinero not anything else.
Bob Saunders does not have to be hispanic to give an opinion about facts on the ground.
Babybori, are really David Figueroa Agosto?
Yikes!
Beeza is correct, money does not define class, if I meant class I meant it in a concerning finances, dinero not anything else.
Bob Saunders does not have to be hispanic to give an opinion about facts on the ground.
Babybori, are really David Figueroa Agosto?
Yikes!
You only have to look at some of the custom cars in the US to know that money can't buy good taste.
Larry the Cable guy makes about $25 million a year doing stand up acting as redneck as possible.
Larry the Cable guy makes about $25 million a year doing stand up acting as redneck as possible.
babybori is a good guy, only he is misinformed and he is telling it from his experience.
He will also move on and get to see more in DR.
To me, middle class people are people with university education, owing a nice house in a nice residential area and have 1 or 2 cars parked in the driveway. This is middle class to me. The rich people are super rich, they spend money like it grows on trees. I am not talking about people who own bancas or carwashes. These people are owners of real businesses and go on business meetings all over the world. Just like business men in USA and europe. If you live and socialize with people in barrios, then all you will see is poverty and desperation. This country will actually begin to look like a dirt poor country. Now if you concentrate on middle to upper middle to rich folks, you will think this country is doing just fine.
Over the years, I have stopped concentrating on the poor and the desperate. These people will not go anywhere or improve their lifestyle. They are part of the poverty culture and poverty resides in their minds. Now I have learned to concentrate on people who are pushing this country forward. People who pay bills, pay taxes and build businesses to move this country to the next century. It all depends on whom you socialize with and thanks to my guides in santo domingo, I am beginning to see things differently. 57% or 90% poverty, doesn't matter. I will concentrate on people who are not struggling from day to day. These are the people who pay my salary and give me a comfortable life. Why worry about the poverty so much when the middle to rich class in this country is completely ignored.
let me put it in to an example: When you fly anywhere, where would you like to be, economy class or the first class? See how first class passengers get better attention and better service? How we envy them sitting on wider leather seats drinking expensive drinks? They pay 4 times as much as the economy yet the people in the economy class are still talking about how bad the economy is in the world. Hahahaha, I don't think so. It is bad for them but not so bad for the first class people who just don't know where and how to spend their money.
Airlines employees (non-rev): just try boarding 1st or business class in USA domestic flights. Always full, it gets sold out faster than the economy. Hahahaha.
I am done with worrying about the poor, I will concentrate on sitting first class all the way no matter what country I am in.
AZB
He will also move on and get to see more in DR.
To me, middle class people are people with university education, owing a nice house in a nice residential area and have 1 or 2 cars parked in the driveway. This is middle class to me. The rich people are super rich, they spend money like it grows on trees. I am not talking about people who own bancas or carwashes. These people are owners of real businesses and go on business meetings all over the world. Just like business men in USA and europe. If you live and socialize with people in barrios, then all you will see is poverty and desperation. This country will actually begin to look like a dirt poor country. Now if you concentrate on middle to upper middle to rich folks, you will think this country is doing just fine.
Over the years, I have stopped concentrating on the poor and the desperate. These people will not go anywhere or improve their lifestyle. They are part of the poverty culture and poverty resides in their minds. Now I have learned to concentrate on people who are pushing this country forward. People who pay bills, pay taxes and build businesses to move this country to the next century. It all depends on whom you socialize with and thanks to my guides in santo domingo, I am beginning to see things differently. 57% or 90% poverty, doesn't matter. I will concentrate on people who are not struggling from day to day. These are the people who pay my salary and give me a comfortable life. Why worry about the poverty so much when the middle to rich class in this country is completely ignored.
let me put it in to an example: When you fly anywhere, where would you like to be, economy class or the first class? See how first class passengers get better attention and better service? How we envy them sitting on wider leather seats drinking expensive drinks? They pay 4 times as much as the economy yet the people in the economy class are still talking about how bad the economy is in the world. Hahahaha, I don't think so. It is bad for them but not so bad for the first class people who just don't know where and how to spend their money.
Airlines employees (non-rev): just try boarding 1st or business class in USA domestic flights. Always full, it gets sold out faster than the economy. Hahahaha.
I am done with worrying about the poor, I will concentrate on sitting first class all the way no matter what country I am in.
AZB
Yes you will find a big percent of Mediocre professionals who works for that money but others make good money too, go ahead and make your own census, ask the taxi drivers at different airports or people who own a medium grocery store ask them what is the average of their net monthly incomes and for sure it's over the amount you mentioned.
Only two examples..
You are completely wrong.
JJ
Lets put it this way, a guy who makes $2000 US in santiago lives way better than a guy who makes $3k in NYC. So its not relevant who makes more money, it depends on what kind of a live you can make for yourself in your own respective country. Middle class in DR don't need to make as much money to live good as compared to middle class in USA.
AZB
AZB
I'd take a $2000/month job in Santiago in a heartbeat even over a $5000/month job in NYC.
Just with the money we pay monthly in "day care" for our four years old baby girl. ONLY THREE DAYS A WEEK BECAUSE WE DON"T AFFORD TO PAY FOR WHOLE WEEK $ 600. we should be living comfortable in low profile in the DR of course with not rent.
Yes it is cheap to live in DR.
JJ
These classes (Upper, Middle, Upper Middle) don't have as much to do with income or accumulation of wealth as they have to do with lifestyle.
The two stated classes of poverty I read as separated by those who can afford a handful of rice and beans and maybe some meat on a daily basis and those who can't.
There are people in the DR who may not make a lot of money but many have several streams of lower income per household, pooled resources (houses, cars, childcare, food) and live comparatively good lifestyles in good neighborhoods, even managing to save a little on a regular basis. This is middle class living regardless of the incomes of the networked participants, even those who don't work at all.
Money can put one in a class above poverty even though they originally came from extreme poverty (athletes, entertainers, the "kept") but only successful asset management can maintain one's status in that class. How many old, broke ex athletes, entertainers or companions can each of us name? Being in an economic "class" is a conditional condition which is more temporary and less certain than life, itself.
The two stated classes of poverty I read as separated by those who can afford a handful of rice and beans and maybe some meat on a daily basis and those who can't.
There are people in the DR who may not make a lot of money but many have several streams of lower income per household, pooled resources (houses, cars, childcare, food) and live comparatively good lifestyles in good neighborhoods, even managing to save a little on a regular basis. This is middle class living regardless of the incomes of the networked participants, even those who don't work at all.
Money can put one in a class above poverty even though they originally came from extreme poverty (athletes, entertainers, the "kept") but only successful asset management can maintain one's status in that class. How many old, broke ex athletes, entertainers or companions can each of us name? Being in an economic "class" is a conditional condition which is more temporary and less certain than life, itself.
i understand your point of view because i see examples of that in a barrio on a daily basis: folks who have nada and all of a sudden they drive a jeepeta. clearly we are talking drug money in here.
but the money can be accumulated over time: poor but smart folks may receive grants or other help in order to complete university education, they become lawyers or doctors and money grows, clean and deserved.
personally i only see poverty at work (we have a business on a main street of a barrio). but majority of dominicans i know and associate with are upper middle class or just plain filthy rich. and i know they have had the money for generations, no foul play.
this whole money=crime concept is an excuse of all poor: we have no money but we have dignity. yeah, dignity my a**...
Include my a$$ in there as well. there is no dignity in being poor and unable to make more than 6k pesos / month. All you hear from the poor folks is: "no hay cuarto...la cosa esta mala...politicos son ladrones...gobierno no sirve...blah blah". They complain all day, yet no one does a damn thing to advance in life. Most of these girl sleep till afternoon, guys spend their entire life on useless activities (example: drinking, playing dominos etc). Girls have kids at early age, can't finish school because a job at a local banca is more important and have kids with 2 different men. No job to support one kid yet the man has 4 kids with 2 women. The list of bad decisions go on and on. There is no end to stupidity on their part.
So poor people should not take pride in being poor and happy. They are not happy, their kids become tigres when raised without a father and if a baby gets sick, he/she dies at home because the parents have no money to take them to nicer clinic. So as DV8 says "poor but with dignity", I say, my ass.
AZB
This is not a Dominican thing. It could apply to Camden, NJ or East St. Louis, IL or a million other places in the World. It's called the "cycle of poverty" and it affects people the World over. These people react similarly, regardless of race or nationality. It can only be overcome by hope. People who think they have a shot at breaking out of the cycle and buy in to their dreams tend to care more and work harder to get there.
I am lost here...........
Are all poor people lazy in a country which has, I believe, limited opportunities unless you have the right connections/ties ?
Are you guys just talking about barrio folks or poor people ?
Also, if more than half (57%)of the country is poor, good for the other 43% living comfortably, but I would think somehow if DR wants to progress and not be classified as a developing country, they gonna have to find a way to deal with the majority.
Trying to understand.....
Are all poor people lazy in a country which has, I believe, limited opportunities unless you have the right connections/ties ?
Are you guys just talking about barrio folks or poor people ?
Also, if more than half (57%)of the country is poor, good for the other 43% living comfortably, but I would think somehow if DR wants to progress and not be classified as a developing country, they gonna have to find a way to deal with the majority.
Trying to understand.....
This "spread it around" thing is driving me nuts...
To add to your point, a full half of the remaining 43% are a stroke of bad luck away from joining the 57% behind them.
If their "democratic" multi-party government operates the way it should then the Dominican people will have an actual stake in the countries improving fortunes. They've got to make sure that everyone willing to work for a slice gets a fair slice or complacency will bankrupt the will of the nation, breeding more crime, more drugs and killing their economic goose just when she's learning the art of the "golden egg".
Let the "have nots" who are willing to work for a stake "have some". That's how progress is done in a democracy.
The have-nots do half-assed job. Just see how many times you order one thing and something else comes to your table. They have very little capacity to understand any concept. They are simply dumb or refuse to think. many of these cashier girls can't even write 1 sentence in spanish without making 10 spelling errors. They can't write, can't understand instructions and have no clue how to do anything. They can't even answer the phone in a professional manner in an office. They make as little as 5K pesos /month because what they are capable of doing, a monkey can do better. This is why the real educated dominicans with brain make so much more. The have-nots will always have nothing because they are prepared for having just that. Top it off with bad management of money and bad decisions in life, they have no future.
AZB
AZB
yes and no. those poor have no education thus no chance of ever advancing in life. this is common to all poor in DR, i belive. but have jobs and work hard for their 6-10k pesos a month.
then you have a huge group of folks who do not want to work and rely on others for support: they frown at minumum wage, at manual labour or they have no sense of duty towards their families: those are the lazy buggers AZB talks about.
but reality is this: majority of poor would do NOTHING to change their status. my friend's father told me a story about how he wanted to help some poor dominican lady in establishing her own business: he purchased a hot dog cart for her with full month supply of food and a gas bottle. she earned 25k or so in a month and gues what - she spent it all, to the last peso. she did not buy a single bloody sausage nor a bun for the next month, nada. he refused to re-supply so she ended up selling a cart with a loss and losing her little business.
This is happening just not on a grand scale, and certainly was interrupted by the Global economic downturn. In the 13 years I've been going to the DR I have seen many improvements in the lives of many of the people I first met. For example my wife's cousins family in SD. The youngest is working as a bi-lingual secretary for an American company- she still working on her marketing degree, the middle son is in his third year of ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING, and the oldest is doing her specialty (eye doctor). Dad is a taxi driver and mom is a stay at home mom. All three children speak English well, and the parents speak well enough to understand. They rent the place they live in Santo Domingo, and it is a dump(San Carlos) but they own two houses in Jarabacoa that they rent out. Some others in my wife's extended family are doing very well, one is in charge of Shell Oil in Doha UAB. Some are in the class that ABZ talks about - complainers that come around the others to mooch or whine about how hard like is.
perfect example. This is what i see everyday in DR. You can give a lazy uneducated dominican 100k pesos to start a business, also give the same amount to another poor dominican who wants to better his financial condition. The lazy dominican would make a stupid investment and lose it all in a few months, but the smart poor dominican who is waiting for a break in life would probably make advancements in his business and become financially stable and may even become rich in a few years time frame.
AZB
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