57% of Dominicans live in poverty

[dv8]

fundacion brugal i mentioned earlier was just an example. ochoa, leon, jimenez, presidente - all big names in this country give money to the poor by the means of education or even nutrition.
in POP we have a comedor economico - basically a place where poor worker can eat a plate of rice and beans with some chicken for lunch or mangu with salami for breakfast. a plate will run from about five pesos (if you bring your own plate) to 10. that is dead cheap. comedores economicos are all over the country and they are partially sponsored by the government. partially, because lots of money comes from companies and private people. in POP it is brugal and vinicula del norte plus many other contributors.
private people also sponsor old hogar de ancianos (old folks home) including my father in law who sends them bags of rice and occasional pig or a cow. others pay their electricity bills, others pay for meds.
i do not know what posters here expect: do they want the rich to give all their possessions to the poor? give more? slash their throats with a spoon? what? what is it?! rich folks in DR are generous, they really are.

when it comes to fighting poverty it cannot be done within a day, year, or even within a generation. it takes educating the kids and then the kids of their kids and their kids in order to completely change the mentality and fully introduce the changes.

and donP, bad education is better than no education. some teachers may be morons but each and every school has good teachers too. and even a bad teacher can teach someone to read, write and count which already is a start to a better life. just this is worth sending your kid to school rather than onto the street where he can polish shoes of half-wit tourist who'd pay him 100 pesos a pop. f**k the money, go to school!

 

[Acira]

fundacion brugal i mentioned earlier was just an example. ochoa, leon, jimenez, presidente - all big names in this country give money to the poor by the means of education or even nutrition.
in POP we have a comedor economico - basically a place where poor worker can eat a plate of rice and beans with some chicken for lunch or mangu with salami for breakfast. a plate will run from about five pesos (if you bring your own plate) to 10. that is dead cheap. comedores economicos are all over the country and they are partially sponsored by the government. partially, because lots of money comes from companies and private people. in POP it is brugal and vinicula del norte plus many other contributors.
private people also sponsor old hogar de ancianos (old folks home) including my father in law who sends them bags of rice and occasional pig or a cow. others pay their electricity bills, others pay for meds.
i do not know what posters here expect: do they want the rich to give all their possessions to the poor? give more? slash their throats with a spoon? what? what is it?! rich folks in DR are generous, they really are.

when it comes to fighting poverty it cannot be done within a day, year, or even within a generation. it takes educating the kids and then the kids of their kids and their kids in order to completely change the mentality and fully introduce the changes.

and donP, bad education is better than no education. some teachers may be morons but each and every school has good teachers too. and even a bad teacher can teach someone to read, write and count which already is a start to a better life. just this is worth sending your kid to school rather than onto the street where he can polish shoes of half-wit tourist who'd pay him 100 pesos a pop. f**k the money, go to school!

Easely said then done with the fact in mind that if he goes to school, he probably has nothing to eat that day.

 

[dv8]

oh my! but the poor, they are so kind to each other, no? they give the food to thy neighbour, they are so sympathetic!

listen, this is the mentality that really screws people in DR. granted, full tummy today is nice but wouldn't it be good to always have a full tummy?
school in DR has shifts: morning or afternoon. a kid can go and still have plenty of money to bring turistas to tears and force their wallets open. not to mention that in a comedor economico he can have a big lunch for 10 pesos, one shoeshine, even at a dominican price, is enough to fill him for the day.
and school? it will bring him benefit 10 times fold.

 

[dv8]

a kid can go and still have plenty of money to bring turistas to tears and force their wallets open.

sorry, i meant "plenty of time" (to earn some cash).

 

[MikeFisher]

oh my! but the poor, they are so kind to each other, no? they give the food to thy neighbour, they are so sympathetic!

listen, this is the mentality that really screws people in DR. granted, full tummy today is nice but wouldn't it be good to always have a full tummy?
school in DR has shifts: morning or afternoon. a kid can go and still have plenty of money to bring turistas to tears and force their wallets open. not to mention that in a comedor economico he can have a big lunch for 10 pesos, one shoeshine, even at a dominican price, is enough to fill him for the day.
and school? it will bring him benefit 10 times fold.

I knew there has to be points where we agree.
around 3 years back I run for just a bit less than a year as a side business a small Bar, together with a friend of mine, we opened that lil terasse as our own private pleasure backyard where we can have a chat and drinks with friends, it turned out to run as a business soon.
the shoeshine boys we only allowed to hang out there in the afternoons when they did their homework from the morning classes right there after school, I wanted to see that they attend school, for that they been allowed at my place. and yes, they had their Lunch included, lol.
Mike

 

[greydread]

What I have learned from this thread...

In a way, DR1 is akin to the island of Aeaea and like it's chief resident (Circe) the forum is somehow able to render newcomers and oldcomers, alike to their representative animal forms. The tricky part is that on this island there are also magic mirrors so that men who are transformed into hyenas and vultures gaze into the mirror only to find the reflections of lions and condors.

There is now a discussion of the value of (gov't provided) primary education in the DR and no, I don't live there every day but I have many friends who do and they are unanimous in the opinion that it sucks. A half day of school is better than no day of school but there is an urgent need to expand the effort because the results are quite evident. There are many who finish school in the country without the skill necessary to advance beyond manual labor or simple tasks.

There are those on this board who will dismiss my opinion (since I "don't have a clue") due to the fact that I don't live in the DR every day and "interact with the people on a daily basis". That's fine. If that's what it takes for those who circle their wagons to feel "superior" then I wish you luck with that. The fact of the matter is that having been an "at risk" youth in an "underserved" community (Harlem, 50's - 60's) I know and overstand poverty and the cycle of poverty and it looks and feels and smells pretty much the same in East St. Louis, IL. as it does in Calcutta as does is in London as it does in Nairobi as it does everywhere that it exists and the answers and the solutions are always the same. You either do the easy thing and move away from the poverty to get out of the cycle or you change the paradigm and create pathways for opportunity. This can start on a block and expand to a neighborhood and take root in an entire city and I'll cite local examples of this in US cities like Pittsburg, Baltimore and Newark but there are others all over the World which can be studied and emulated.

Excellence in academic achievement is not the cure for poverty but it is the beginning of communal self improvement. This is enabled on many levels and I for one give thanks every day for the blessings of inspiration and mentorship of dozens of people who may have only taken the time to have a short conversation or make an observation to inspire me. Some said nothing yet led by example. I take every opportunity to give this back to the generations behind me and the tricky thing about that is that seldom do I know whether the recipients even remember or took my advice/ insight seriously but when you see a troubled kid eventually turn to wisdom and the path of self improvement it's inspiration enough to keep on trying. The government, the community , the parents and the children have equal responsibility for the preparation of future generations to seek and find financial security and national economic good health. I don't think that a half day of school gives these kids a fighting chance in the information age and the DR's successes in the tourism sector (even through tough economic times, globally) can be turned into the seeds of future success in other sectors if its resources are correctly managed and nurtured and chief amonst these resources is its people.

We who have participated in this discussion have seen the ex-pat's circle their wagons and fight to minimize the opinions of those of us who don't live there full time. I will admit that I and those in my position and of my perspective don't have the same level of stake in the economic success (or failure) of the Dominican economy that they do but that fact doesn't render our experience or observationas any less worthwhile than theirs. If you want a forum for ex-pat's only then just say that and we'll go elsewhere but what you're doing in denegrating the observations and experiences of guests to the forum who don't happen to live in the DR is not only counterproductive but just plain rude. Cut it out or Circe will turn you into piglets and skunks. :laugh:

YouTube - Police Brutality: Can't We Get Along?

 

[RacerX]

When I use fag this is not an anti-homosexuality insult, this is a ideological attack that if you are who you purport to be you dont not bail when people need you the most. If you are a doctor and in the midst of a natural disaster you determine that you cannot help anyone because you arent getting paid, YOU ARE A FAG! You help people for the love of humanity and that is what you do. You take a Hippocratic Oath, not a Hipoteca Oath.
QUOTE]

The word you are looking for is "HYPOCRITE" instead of "FAG". And in the gospel, Jesus despised hypocrites.

(Moderator: I realize that's a bit off subject, but I felt that needed clarification.)

RacerX: Although I don't agree with your word choice and I think you may be over-generalizing missionaries, you do indeed make a good point.

Those of us who are not native Dominicans and who have not sought citizenship should take care when discussing what we perceive as the ills of Dominican society, for two reasons:

1. We are guests here (self-invited guests at that), and it is not polite to criticize hosts when one is a guest.

2. We can come across as condescending hypocrites, given that each of our home nations have issues to be addressed as well.

This thread, it seems, has identified many of the reasons for poverty. Now, let's see if we can each come up with ways that we personally can make a contribution to the home of our wonderful Dominican hosts.

(For example, if you read through AZB's posts, you will see that he is generous to those who approach him with a need.)

I have a dictionary. I prefer my lingo better, 2-faced Fag, vs. Proselytizing Hypocrite. Shorter, more succinct and has that biting edge to it that ensures you you are being insulted.

 

[puryear270]

I have a dictionary. I prefer my lingo better, 2-faced Fag, vs. Proselytizing Hypocrite. Shorter, more succinct and has that biting edge to it that ensures you you are being insulted.

You say tomato, I say tomato -- that doesn't work at all on a written forum.

At least we agree that we don't like people whose actions are inconsistent with their preaching.

But we digress from the thread...

 

[Acira]

In a way, DR1 is akin to the island of Aeaea and like it's chief resident (Circe) the forum is somehow able to render newcomers and oldcomers, alike to their representative animal forms. The tricky part is that on this island there are also magic mirrors so that men who are transformed into hyenas and vultures gaze into the mirror only to find the reflections of lions and condors.

There is now a discussion of the value of (gov't provided) primary education in the DR and no, I don't live there every day but I have many friends who do and they are unanimous in the opinion that it sucks. A half day of school is better than no day of school but there is an urgent need to expand the effort because the results are quite evident. There are many who finish school in the country without the skill necessary to advance beyond manual labor or simple tasks.

There are those on this board who will dismiss my opinion (since I "don't have a clue") due to the fact that I don't live in the DR every day and "interact with the people on a daily basis". That's fine. If that's what it takes for those who circle their wagons to feel "superior" then I wish you luck with that. The fact of the matter is that having been an "at risk" youth in an "underserved" community (Harlem, 50's - 60's) I know and overstand poverty and the cycle of poverty and it looks and feels and smells pretty much the same in East St. Louis, IL. as it does in Calcutta as does is in London as it does in Nairobi as it does everywhere that it exists and the answers and the solutions are always the same. You either do the easy thing and move away from the poverty to get out of the cycle or you change the paradigm and create pathways for opportunity. This can start on a block and expand to a neighborhood and take root in an entire city and I'll cite local examples of this in US cities like Pittsburg, Baltimore and Newark but there are others all over the World which can be studied and emulated.

Excellence in academic achievement is not the cure for poverty but it is the beginning of communal self improvement. This is enabled on many levels and I for one give thanks every day for the blessings of inspiration and mentorship of dozens of people who may have only taken the time to have a short conversation or make an observation to inspire me. Some said nothing yet led by example. I take every opportunity to give this back to the generations behind me and the tricky thing about that is that seldom do I know whether the recipients even remember or took my advice/ insight seriously but when you see a troubled kid eventually turn to wisdom and the path of self improvement it's inspiration enough to keep on trying. The government, the community , the parents and the children have equal responsibility for the preparation of future generations to seek and find financial security and national economic good health. I don't think that a half day of school gives these kids a fighting chance in the information age and the DR's successes in the tourism sector (even through tough economic times, globally) can be turned into the seeds of future success in other sectors if its resources are correctly managed and nurtured and chief amonst these resources is its people.

We who have participated in this discussion have seen the ex-pat's circle their wagons and fight to minimize the opinions of those of us who don't live there full time. I will admit that I and those in my position and of my perspective don't have the same level of stake in the economic success (or failure) of the Dominican economy that they do but that fact doesn't render our experience or observationas any less worthwhile than theirs. If you want a forum for ex-pat's only then just say that and we'll go elsewhere but what you're doing in denegrating the observations and experiences of guests to the forum who don't happen to live in the DR is not only counterproductive but just plain rude. Cut it out or Circe will turn you into piglets and skunks. :laugh:

YouTube - Police Brutality: Can't We Get Along?

Great post again.
What wonders me the most is this thread is that posts of expats or people who live here partially or visit here frequently are being discarded by a few and yes, they become ruder everytime.
Why such a reaction?
If I am not interested in a thread, I just leave it alone, read it maybe but will not respond.
Strange...

 

[AZB]

Great post again.
What wonders me the most is this thread is that posts of expats or people who live here partially or visit here frequently are being discarded by a few and yes, they become ruder everytime.
Why such a reaction?
If I am not interested in a thread, I just leave it alone, read it maybe but will not respond.
Strange...

you will understand us better when you have some time living in this country. If you don't have to deal with the local population here and if you prefer to live among your expat utopia, then discard whatever we have to say here. Now the information you green-peas post which stems from your own personal european/american mindset is not only a disservice to others who are thinking of moving here but could also can lead them to make costly mistakes.
Please do not think that you are the only ones who see things this way, we were also in your shoes when we came here. We thought and acted the same way and paid heavy price along the way. A smart person should learn from our mistakes, a dummy will go on and learn from his own mistakes.
For your information, we the resident expats (away from resort areas) are no idiots. We didn't lose our hair from sitting under the hot sun of sosua. So please, don't try to understand our frustrations, just listen to us. we make no money on giving you head-up advices. We do this because we would like to make your stay here as comfortable as possible, without getting into any unnecessary problems.
AZB

 

[DMV123]

Greydread - great post again! I dont think anyone's opinion should ever be disgarded - that is both rude and arrogant.

In some cases living here gives you a very different insight - in other cases it makes little difference.

In some cases living outside of here brings a perspective that is useful and insightful.

Great ideas, great programs rarely come from just one place, one opinion or one set of thoughts! It takes a lot of input to create change, to create great programs to really and truly help.

I agree that education is a big big part of the answer. I have personally seen the "quality" of the education on many occasions and it "sucks" !!!!!! That is at the primary level. I have seen thru my work the quality of "higher education" and again let me tell you often it "sucks". A woman with a masters degree who cannot balance her checkbook! A man, recent graduate with an advanced education who does not know how to turn on a computer - this man was hired to run a a large office.

It is pervasive and holds back the entire country. Kids deserve and need a good basic education. 2 or so hours a day WILL NOT DO IT. Underpaid teachers will not help. Poorly set up and supplied class rooms will NOT DO IT. They must overhaul the education system. But first they need political will. That is lacking.

 

[Acira]

you will understand us better when you have some time living in this country. If you don't have to deal with the local population here and if you prefer to live among your expat utopia, then discard whatever we have to say here. Now the information you green-peas post which stems from your own personal european/american mindset is not only a disservice to others who are thinking of moving here but could also can lead them to make costly mistakes.
Please do not think that you are the only ones who see things this way, we were also in your shoes when we came here. We thought and acted the same way and paid heavy price along the way. A smart person should learn from our mistakes, a dummy will go on and learn from his own mistakes.
For your information, we the resident expats (away from resort areas) are no idiots. We didn't lose our hair from sitting under the hot sun of sosua. So please, don't try to understand our frustrations, just listen to us. we make no money on giving you head-up advices. We do this because we would like to make your stay here as comfortable as possible, without getting into any unnecessary problems.
AZB

I am not living in a gated community nor will I ever do so, thats why we decided to live in Jarabacoa also.

Sorry, but I usually do not listen to people's advice and that doesn't make me stupid but I see it more as being streetwise smart. No better way then dive into a culture to try to understand how people think and act on my behaviour and I never had any problems with it, only respect.

And from being rude you go to being hautain which really doesn't work with me, its only having a counter effect.

So get of your high horse mr. AZB and instead of posting rude messages and then turning now like into a "Messias" to "help" us poor poor expats with "advice" to make us comfortable here, give some sound real advice without all the blabla and maybe, maybe I will listen to some of the things you have to say.

And you dare to point a finger to me that I scare people of with my quotes? I think a lot of people who have never been here and read some of your posts are more scared to come here now.

So maybe you should have a drink at the bar...or a glass of tea?

 

[AZB]

I am not living in a gated community nor will I ever do so, thats why we decided to live in Jarabacoa also.

Sorry, but I usually do not listen to people's advice and that doesn't make me stupid but I see it more as being streetwise smart. No better way then dive into a culture to try to understand how people think and act on my behaviour and I never had any problems with it, only respect.

And from being rude you go to being hautain which really doesn't work with me, its only having a counter effect.

So get of your high horse mr. AZB and instead of posting rude messages and then turning now like into a "Messias" to "help" us poor poor expats with "advice" to make us comfortable here, give some sound real advice without all the blabla and maybe, maybe I will listen to some of the things you have to say.

And you dare to point a finger to me that I scare people of with my quotes? I think a lot of people who have never been here and read some of your posts are more scared to come here now.

So maybe you should have a drink at the bar...or a glass of tea?

Nice try but wrong. I have been helping people out here long before you even knew how to pronounce jarabacoa. Remember, you are the new-comer, not me. I have helped far more people settle here than you will ever care to know. So please, enjoy your days in jarabacoa and stop worrying about me. Expats like us are not retired here, we actually provide services to the general public which puts us in direct contact with them 24/7.
AZB

 

[Chirimoya]

Yada yada yada.
This thread ceased to be meaningful pages ago.
Closed.