A catastrophe in the making

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Chip00

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According to the latest news Haiti's deforestation has left the country with about 1% of tree coverage and now the illicit market of coal is growing in the DR to meet demand.

http://www.dr1.com/index.html#10

My question is could it get any worse in Haiti? Goodness gracious when will people realize that whatever government they have had or does have just won't work? These people can't govern themselves nor even take care of their own people nor their environment. I can't get over how much popluar opinion there is in the world that somehow the DR or Western countries are to blame.

The UN needs to just set up a new system of government like the US did in Japan or Germany and take it from there. The Haitians obviously have no idea what is good for them and if they continue it will spill over to the DR. These people are as far back into the Dark Ages as could be possible in todays world. Life is cheap and the people are desparate. Earth to world - quit blaming the DR for Haiti's problems and act to make some real change - not feel good "hot air"!!!!!!!
 

qgrande

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I don't see any blaim put on the DR or the West in this, more Listin Diario blaiming Haiti for Dominican deforestation happening within the DR by Dominicans.
Haitian deforestation is not new, and right now the feeling within Haiti is one of geniune optimism that Preval is bringing the stability the country has not had for so long. So, yes, a good time for the world to step in and make some real change.
 
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Chip00

Guest
I don't see any blaim put on the DR or the West in this, more Listin Diario blaiming Haiti for Dominican deforestation happening within the DR by Dominicans.
Haitian deforestation is not new, and right now the feeling within Haiti is one of geniune optimism that Preval is bringing the stability the country has not had for so long. So, yes, a good time for the world to step in and make some real change.
I wasn't talking about this issue specifically but other issues in Haiti and other third It has been discussed quite frequently in the debates section. What I'm referencing to with regards to the DR/Haiti issues and with regards to Western countries being blamed this is "broader" indictment by my part on the overly political correct attitude that somehow Western thought and capitalism is really what has caused such suffering in third world countries. This "idealism" is a prevalent undercurrent of influence in todays liberal politically correct press.
 

aegap

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Chip, my post #54 on thread is relevant to your question here.
there're also some very good stuff been done in that area too. The following article almost brought tears into my eyes. OK, not really but, ...

List?n Diario Digital - El peri?dico de los dominicanos

just yesterday, ..

Sociedad Ecol?gica del Cibao (SOECI) 30 a?os en la conciencia ambiental dominicana

To increase the Dominican north region?s forest cover this week the Cibao Ecological Society (SOECI) begins planting 100,000 endemic and native trees in several areas of the Northern Mountain Range, where deforestation has increased in the last few years.
The planting will begin next Wednesday in the reserve Diego de Ocampo Peak and in the Jacagua river basin.
Among the varieties to be planted figure almond, walnut, mahogany, Creole oak, cedar and olive.
SOECI president Nelson Bautista said the varieties will be distributed among the different organizations that will participate in the operation in the coming days.

Sociedad Ecol?gica del Cibao (SOECI) 30 a?os en la conciencia ambiental dominicana
 
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Mirador

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Apr 15, 2004
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there're also some very good stuff been done in that area too. The following article almost brought tears into my eyes. OK, not really but, ...

List?n Diario Digital - El peri?dico de los dominicanos

just yesterday, ..

http://dominicantribune.com/app/article.aspx?id=23820
The article is misleading, giving the impression that it is an organized and controlled activity by the government's forestry administration. The reality is otherwise. It is an informal activity carried out by campesinos in every province of the SW (not just around Tamayo, Barahona) who have no anternative means of agricultural subsistance. The depradation is larger than what the article suggests, and the government (or ngo organizations) has absolutely no control over the massive deforestation it is causing. I have pics and film on it... Maybe I should post one of my video clips on charcoal kiln making in the SW....
 
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Chip00

Guest
aegap

I can guess from your sarcasm that what is really going on in the southeast is government sponsored forestation right? All the stuff about sustainability is just propoganda it appears.

Also, "Dry forest" to me seems to be a forest on the verge of failure as trees need lots of water to grow.
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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Actually, Chip, "dry forest" refers to the mesquite forests, as well as other varieties. These are indigenous, semi-desert trees that will re-grow after harvesting of the wood for charcoal. There are several of the farms under government permit.

If well managed, something that has been done, they provide a sustainable economic base for rural dwellers.

HB
 
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Chip00

Guest
Actually, Chip, "dry forest" refers to the mesquite forests, as well as other varieties. These are indigenous, semi-desert trees that will re-grow after harvesting of the wood for charcoal. There are several of the farms under government permit.

If well managed, something that has been done, they provide a sustainable economic base for rural dwellers.

HB
Well that is a bit of good news and it truly makes me happy that this country is expending effort to protect at least some of it's resources, renewable or otherwise.
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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just yesterday, ..

Sociedad Ecol?gica del Cibao (SOECI) 30 a?os en la conciencia ambiental dominicana

To increase the Dominican north region?s forest cover this week the Cibao Ecological Society (SOECI) begins planting 100,000 endemic and native trees in several areas of the Northern Mountain Range, where deforestation has increased in the last few years.
The planting will begin next Wednesday in the reserve Diego de Ocampo Peak and in the Jacagua river basin.
Among the varieties to be planted figure almond, walnut, mahogany, Creole oak, cedar and olive.
SOECI president Nelson Bautista said the varieties will be distributed among the different organizations that will participate in the operation in the coming days.

Sociedad Ecol?gica del Cibao (SOECI) 30 a?os en la conciencia ambiental dominicana
My fiance, who many here have met, is an officer of SOECI. I have attended several meetings and functions of SOECI. It is a very fine organization, most worthy of membership and support. They are sincerely imterested and dedicated to the preservation and improvement of the entire Cibao environment.
 

something_of_the_night

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Feb 7, 2006
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aegap

I can guess from your sarcasm that what is really going on in the southeast is government sponsored forestation right? All the stuff about sustainability is just propoganda it appears.

Also, "Dry forest" to me seems to be a forest on the verge of failure as trees need lots of water to grow.
Chip, do you have time to edit your post? It appears you misunderstood what aegap wrote.
 

aegap

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A good reason why its good to have private organizations like SOECI, etc. ..as oppose to the Dominican government ..as the impetus behind stuff like this is that the Dominican government seems to have an "if -t-works-significantly-well -don't-try-it-again" mentality.

A government sponsored program during the late '90s called "Plan Nacional Quisqueya Verde" is a rather good example of that.

"Projecto Sabana Clara" in the South is perhaps another one.
 
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aegap

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"Proyecto Sabana Crara" in the Frontier region with Haiti is perhaps another one.
 
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Chip00

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Chip, do you have time to edit your post? It appears you misunderstood what aegap wrote.
Assuming that you aren't being facetious - sorry - we only get 10 min to do that.

to clarify, when aegap said "The following article almost brought tears into my eyes. OK, not really but.." I just assumed that he was inferring that the article was some gov't. sponsored propaganda. Therefore, I read the article with that in mind and honestly I thought it would be nice if such programs could work here. I am very pleased to know that it is in fact the case that programs such as this appear to be successfull.
 

Texas Bill

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I am suprised that Pecan (Nuesces) tres haven't been planted in droves along the Masacre river banks of the DR. In the Southwest Texas Area there is even a river named the Nuesces for the major groves of wild pecans that grew along it's banks. The river cuts through the kiliche beds of SW Texas from the Davis Mountains (some call them foothills) to it's mouth in Corpus Christi Bay. These trees have been and were a major source of oil and protein for the natives of the SW for centuries. Also, the wood is hardwood and can be turned into very beautiful furniture. The abundance of kiliche and "red" soil in theDR would make good beds for such a wood. The mesquite currently being used in reforestation is really a junk wood used primarily in Texas as a source of charchol and firewood by the lower social classes in the SW (not intended derogaritorily (sp)). Literally millions have been spent by farmers and ranchers in attempts to erradicate this "bush" from the land as far back as the1850's, since it was crowding out the"buffalo grass" from which the cattle fed.

Texas Bill
 

George Holmes

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Most Haitian deforestation occured in the 19th century when the plantation system collapsed and the former slaves viewed their freedom as being defined by having their own little plot of land, hence it was all cleared for small scale agriculture.

The charcoal burning in the Bahuruco area for export to Haiti is not done by Haitians crossing the border, but is an organised effort by Dominicans, who cut, burn and then ship it across the border. They might employ some Haitian labourers, but it is a Dominican effort. I do know that many of the underpaid, untrained forestry police are involved in this, who run charcoal burning as a way of supplimenting their income.

By the way, if the proposed IMF cuts to the butane subsidy happen, expect charcoal production to skyrocket as the urban and rural poor turn to charcoal as an affordable alternative to gas.

There are a number of good studies of deforestation and charcoal burning in the SW, particularly related to the perverse results of strict protection measures which ended up encouraging deforestation. PM me if you want the references.