Abinader sees DR entering the microchip world

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Without the government it would had never taken off. Case in point, they couldn’t had done that in Cuba after 1959 and the current Haiti.

Under the Cuban model the entire Punta Cana property would had been expropriated. In Haiti, well we can see what’s going on over there. One with a strong government that isn’t very pro-business and the other with hardly a government to speak of.

Actually, Punta Cana succeeded in spite of the government and its dysfunction. That lucky break came about because one of the biggest lambones in DR history had the foresight to realize that the success of PC was his success and he protected (for a price of course) what they were trying to accomplish.

One example was the government concession given to CEPM for the right to supply power to the resorts and others in PC until 2032. Who was powerful enough to do that, to oust the governments own power company and all the political jobs and patronage that accompanied it?

Amable Aristy.

PC succeeded where/while the other tourist areas of the DR languished……not because without the government it would never have taken off….but because one of the most powerful lambones personally helped them…….and himself.

Circling back to the OP, while Abinader may well go down in DR history as one of the best Presidents ever, he still must deal with an entrenched political mindset that keeps the DR from success instead of leading towards it….but credit him and the people who elected him with the success he has had…….it just will not be in semi-conductor chips in the future.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
 

MoJoInDR

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…….And apparently Haiti proved that point.

However, clean rooms are used in many manufacturing processes like pharmaceuticals, etc.

I do not think there was ever any chip production in Haiti…..except as was mentioned in a prior post above…….Plantains.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
No chip production... It was the production of circuit boards I believe... And it required a workforce... Which was met by Haitian workers.
 

JD Jones

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The electronics factory I managed had almost 2000 employees. We did have wave solder machines and simple electronic chip insertion machines.
But microchip production is a different animal indeed
 
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NALs

Economist by Profession
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Actually, Punta Cana succeeded in spite of the government and its dysfunction. That lucky break came about because one of the biggest lambones in DR history had the foresight to realize that the success of PC was his success and he protected (for a price of course) what they were trying to accomplish.

One example was the government concession given to CEPM for the right to supply power to the resorts and others in PC until 2032. Who was powerful enough to do that, to oust the governments own power company and all the political jobs and patronage that accompanied it?

Amable Aristy.

PC succeeded where/while the other tourist areas of the DR languished……not because without the government it would never have taken off….but because one of the most powerful lambones personally helped them…….and himself.

Circling back to the OP, while Abinader may well go down in DR history as one of the best Presidents ever, he still must deal with an entrenched political mindset that keeps the DR from success instead of leading towards it….but credit him and the people who elected him with the success he has had…….it just will not be in semi-conductor chips in the future.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
You want to pretend that everything they did was solely due to them and not the government and that is common among some people. Without the government there would be no Punta Cana. I’ll only give three example.

1. The land was bought. That purchase had to be legitimate and the only way it could be legitimate is if the government knows about and gives it the ok. Without that any duffus can appear at any time with fake titles on the same property and claim they are the true owners. When that happens, the last resort is to take it to court where it will be decided. To who does the court belongs to?

2. Without an airport there is no Punta Cana, at least as a touristic development. Any airport in the DR, regardless who builts it, needs to get the OK from the government. Until that isn’t achieved, the airport can’t operate.

3. One of the complaints from Rainieri before the El Coral Highway and the Boulevard del Este were built (by who?) was that well into the 2000’s Punta Cana had grown and it was still serviced by a tight old road that used to go from Higüey passing by Verón to Punta Cana. That road was in fact built by the government of Dr Joaquín Balaguer. It took him until I think it was Danilo Medina for the government to finished the Boulevard del Este and the El Coral Highway (it would had been earlier, but Rainieri asked Hipolito to built it and Hipolito said that if Rainiri wants a highway, he should built it himself.). Punta Cana is benefitting from a faster and easier connection to SD via the El Coral, autovía del Este and Las Américas highways. All of them built by the government. Even the giant roundabout where the El Coral Highway, Boulevard del Este and the road to Punta Cana and the airport meet was built by the government.

There are more examples, but with just those 3 anyone can see that without the Dominican government Punta Cana would had been impossible. Furthermore, since the 1960’s (in reality since Trujillo since actual government attention to tourism began in the 1940’s and that included things such as creating the tourist card which until then every tourist needed a tourist visa and going through migración wasn’t as efficient as today, shortening Dominican Republic to just the DR, the creation of the first beach hotel in the country -Hamaca in Boca Chica when it wss nice and hardly existed- and other hotels such as the Jaragua -the old version which was the best hotel in the country, the current one is from the late 1980’s, I was actually taken to see that when it was new since until then it was the flashiest hotel built in the DR-, etc) the DR government was involved in impulding the tourism industry by creating incentives for certain coastal areas to become tourism poles, later the Banco Central created Playa Dorada which was the Caribbean’s most successful and highest concentration of all inclusive resorts through the 1980’s and 1990’s, the creation of Juan Dolio which is an anomally was a government intention that at first became a popular resorts area, etc. The DR was in the era of tourism development and airports development since the government was the one that built the airport in Puerto Plata and improved Las Américas which wasn’t even as big as it’s now. All of that because of the government in the same country where Rainieri et al didn’t know what to do with the land by the beach. Where the idea to built a hotel and try to make it a tourist attraction came from? Out of thin air?

Without the Dominican government there is no Punta Cana. Whether the government involvement wasn’t greater or should had been grester is another argument, but the notion that Punta Cana came to be without a single hand from the government is delusional.

I want to see Punta Cana with the Dominican government never approving their airport and refusing to build an airport as well. That alone would had killed Punta Cana as a tourist destination before it even started.

Practically no one with money is aboe to build a fortune without a government. To make money is one of the reasons governments exist (and not necessarily the taking money at the government level due to corruption.) If it wasn’t for that, there wouldn’t be any government and humanity would live on their own probably in still in caves. Heck, the main reason the DR was created was because the Haitian government was impeding Dominicans to make money. The USA was created essentially due to a tax issue from London, etc…
 
Jan 9, 2004
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You want to pretend that everything they did was solely due to them and not the government and that is common among some people. Without the government there would be no Punta Cana. I’ll only give three example.

1. The land was bought. That purchase had to be legitimate and the only way it could be legitimate is if the government knows about and gives it the ok. Without that any duffus can appear at any time with fake titles on the same property and claim they are the true owners. When that happens, the last resort is to take it to court where it will be decided. To who does the court belongs to?


Buying land does not take a government decree, and of course the parties did their due diligence to make sure ownership was correct. I do note that La Altagracia province where Punta Cana is located has had the highest numbers of fraudulent titles involving land. The Registry in Higuey was and still May be loaded with government corruption…….which is why Amable Aristy was so important.


2. Without an airport there is no Punta Cana, at least as a touristic development. Any airport in the DR, regardless who builts it, needs to get the OK from the government. Until that isn’t achieved, the airport can’t operate.


Of course it does. But what government in their right mind would turn down private capital to build an airport. They too can see the endless possibilities for corruption and payouts. And again that is where Amable Aristy came in useful in controlling it.



3. One of the complaints from Rainieri before the El Coral Highway and the Boulevard del Este were built (by who?) was that well into the 2000’s Punta Cana had grown and it was still serviced by a tight old road that used to go from Higüey passing by Verón to Punta Cana. That road was in fact built by the government of Dr Joaquín Balaguer. It took him until I think it was Danilo Medina for the government to finished the Boulevard del Este and the El Coral Highway (it would had been earlier, but Rainieri asked Hipolito to built it and Hipolito said that if Rainiri wants a highway, he should built it himself.). Punta Cana is benefitting from a faster and easier connection to SD via the El Coral, autovía del Este and Las Américas highways. All of them built by the government. Even the giant roundabout where the El Coral Highway, Boulevard del Este and the road to Punta Cana and the airport meet was built by the government.


Thank you for pointing out a) how long it took the government to build such a road and b) for pointing to one of largest government graft/corruption projects in DR history.



There are more examples, but with just those 3 anyone can see that without the Dominican government Punta Cana would had been impossible. Furthermore, since the 1960’s (in reality since Trujillo since actual government attention to tourism began in the 1940’s and that included things such as creating the tourist card which until then every tourist needed a tourist visa and going through migración wasn’t as efficient as today, shortening Dominican Republic to just the DR, the creation of the first beach hotel in the country -Hamaca in Boca Chica when it wss nice and hardly existed- and other hotels such as the Jaragua -the old version which was the best hotel in the country, the current one is from the late 1980’s, I was actually taken to see that when it was new since until then it was the flashiest hotel built in the DR-, etc) the DR government was involved in impulding the tourism industry by creating incentives for certain coastal areas to become tourism poles, later the Banco Central created Playa Dorada which was the Caribbean’s most successful and highest concentration of all inclusive resorts through the 1980’s and 1990’s, the creation of Juan Dolio which is an anomally was a government intention that at first became a popular resorts area, etc. The DR was in the era of tourism development and airports development since the government was the one that built the airport in Puerto Plata and improved Las Américas which wasn’t even as big as it’s now. All of that because of the government in the same country where Rainieri et al didn’t know what to do with the land by the beach. Where the idea to built a hotel and try to make it a tourist attraction came from? Out of thin air?

Without the Dominican government there is no Punta Cana. Whether the government involvement wasn’t greater or should had been grester is another argument, but the notion that Punta Cana came to be without a single hand from the government is delusional.

I want to see Punta Cana with the Dominican government never approving their airport and refusing to build an airport as well. That alone would had killed Punta Cana as a tourist destination before it even started.

Practically no one with money is aboe to build a fortune without a government. To make money is one of the reasons governments exist (and not necessarily the taking money at the government level due to corruption.) If it wasn’t for that, there wouldn’t be any government and humanity would live on their own probably in still in caves. Heck, the main reason the DR was created was because the Haitian government was impeding Dominicans to make money. The USA was created essentially due to a tax issue from London, etc…


Punta Cana was built in spite of the ineptitude and corruption of ALL the prior governments. Do not delude yourself into believing the government had a major hand in creating PC. But they certainly now recognize its benefits.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
 
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NALs

Economist by Profession
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Punta Cana was built in spite of the ineptitude and corruption of ALL the prior governments. Do not delude yourself into believing the government had a major hand in creating PC. But they certainly now recognize its benefits.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
What happened when the land ownership of PC was challenged by a group that claimed they were the rightful owners of that lsnd with (fake) titles and everything? Where was it settled?

This isn’t about recognizing anything. The reason they couldn’t start operating the airport until around 1984 was because for years they had not been granted the permit from the government. What if the government still had not granted the permit? Can PC exist without an airport? :unsure:
 
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What happened when the land ownership of PC was challenged by a group that claimed they were the rightful owners of that lsnd with (fake) titles and everything? Where was it settled?

This isn’t about recognizing anything. The reason they couldn’t start operating the airport until around 1984 was because for years they had not been granted the permit from the government. What if the government still had not granted the permit? Can PC exist without an airport? :unsure:

I am glad you asked. The ownership,issue was settled long before it ever got to court. The rulings on ownership were ministerial in nature and had already been decided by pesos and Amable’s quiet intervention. The ruling was in the bag.
Corruption and money ruled the day.

As to the airport, when enough people had been paid off……the permits were granted……and it was built, much like PC itself with private capital and of course the obligatory handouts to the various governments along the way.

I was privy to a meeting in Bavaro with a vice minister of tourism. Someone wanted to construct a 4 story resort hotel on a parcel of land. At the time the height limit was 3 stories. Unabashedly the vice minister indicated no problem, as long as a 1 million dollar payment off the books was made to get the approvals.

And there is more, but suffice to say the DR government has been the problem over the years……not the solution.

I have had dinners with people considered to be the founders of PC and the stories about government corruption leave one shaking their head in disbelief.

But once again, PC has flourished in spite of the government…

Fast forward and I do believe the current government recognizes the importance of working together with private capital, instead of creating financial roadblocks, which was the norm in years gone by.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
 
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JD Jones

Moderator:North Coast,Santo Domingo,SW Coast,Covid
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I am glad you asked. The ownership,issue was settled long before it ever got to court. The rulings on ownership were ministerial in nature and had already been decided by pesos and Amable’s quiet intervention. The ruling was in the bag.
Corruption and money ruled the day.

As to the airport, when enough people had been paid off……the permits were granted……and it was built, much like PC itself with private capital and of course the obligatory handouts to the various governments along the way.

I was privy to a meeting in Bavaro with a vice minister of tourism. Someone wanted to construct a 4 story resort hotel on a parcel of land. At the time the height limit was 3 stories. Unabashedly the vice minister indicated no problem, as long as a 1 million dollar payment off the books was made to get the approvals.

And there is more, but suffice to say the DR government has been the problem over the years……not the solution.

I have had dinners with people considered to be the founders of PC and the stories about government corruption leave one shaking their head in disbelief.

But once again, PC has flourished in spite of the government…

Fast forward and I do believe the current government recognizes the importance of working together with private capital, instead of creating financial roadblocks, which was the norm in years gone by.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

The stories I could tell.
 

M4kintosh

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May 23, 2023
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What's next ? .... manufacturing airplanes !?
They said it in 2022, no updates from the Gov or Boeing so far
 

M4kintosh

Active member
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Santiago De Los Caballeros
100% agree....the infrastructure and the highly trained workers, should make it clear that what the DR needs is a Dominican Nasa..........
Actually, if the Gov "se pone los pantalones" and start unifying the college-business environment we have here, things would be totally different.

Right now, compared to the rest of CARICOM and Central America:

- We have the greatest number of technical schools per capita of the Caribbean (ITSC, ITLA, Loyola, Salesianos)
- Private colleges already having partnerships with US (NASA-INTEC)
- And recently the amount of kids winning Math Olympics has been in the rise

The Gov has the capacity (and authority) to mix all of it and make the perfect sauce to create a new generation of talents that won't need to go out of the country and use their Visa for a dream (pun for the JLG song)

cc @NALs @JD Jones @El Hijo de Manolo

I may be a technocrat, but if someone would had this same vision and share it to the Gov, things would be different here. Exporting platanos and semiconductors is a great idea.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Don’t forget the Barna Management School. That is the first Dominican business school and it might be the first of its kind in the Caribbean. It used to be that if someone wanted to get a more specialized education on running a company, they had to go abroad usually to the United States. Not anymore. I’m actually expecting more such schools to appear in the next few years.

Also Chavón Escuela de Diseño is the best design/art school in the Caribbean. I don’t know if they still do, but they had a partnership with the Parsons School of Design in NYC, which is one of the best in the world in that field.
 
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NALs

Economist by Profession
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I am glad you asked. The ownership,issue was settled long before it ever got to court. The rulings on ownership were ministerial in nature and had already been decided by pesos and Amable’s quiet intervention. The ruling was in the bag.
Corruption and money ruled the day.
Don’t forget to say he wss a Deputy and Senator for La Altagracia province. Without the government, it can’t be done.

As to the airport, when enough people had been paid off……the permits were granted……and it was built, much like PC itself with private capital and of course the obligatory handouts to the various governments along the way.
To whom? People in the government? Why even bother, Punta Cana would had existed without ever dealing with the government. :censored:

I was privy to a meeting in Bavaro with a vice minister of tourism. Someone wanted to construct a 4 story resort hotel on a parcel of land. At the time the height limit was 3 stories. Unabashedly the vice minister indicated no problem, as long as a 1 million dollar payment off the books was made to get the approvals.
Certainly, it had to be paid to a government official. There is no way around that. A fortune can’t be made without dealing with the government.

And there is more, but suffice to say the DR government has been the problem over the years……not the solution.
I Punta Cana exist, it’s because the government let it exist. Case in point, PC needed the permit to operate the airport and there was no way to do it without that.

I have had dinners with people considered to be the founders of PC and the stories about government corruption leave one shaking their head in disbelief.
But they had to deal with the government prior to being allowed to do what they did. As said before, there is no way around that.

But once again, PC has flourished in spite of the government…
Hmm, you mesn the PC airport was able to operate without the permit? Land ownership was settled without desling with anyone from the government? They don’t know anything about government corruption because they never needed to deal with the government, they just went ahead? :unsure:

Fast forward and I do believe the current government recognizes the importance of working together with private capital, instead of creating financial roadblocks, which was the norm in years gone by.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
It all comes down to a very simple thing: without government even PC wouldn’t be able to get off the ground. They know that and you know that.

Now, about those stories they have of directly dealing with the government in order to be allowed to do several things in the DR because without it would be impossible…

I already gave examples that PC wouldn’t be possible in Cuba or in modern Haiti precisely due to the governments (one strong and very hands on and the other hardly existing.)
 
Jan 9, 2004
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They said it in 2022, no updates from the Gov or Boeing so far

The updates, if you will, are that they are still conducting soil studies on the runways………and the most important part…..financing of the operation.

As an fyi, it is not Boeing doing the actual deal, but rather a private company that will contract with Boeing, when and if their financing is ever completed.

The company is FTS Holdings and they will merely be a contractual supplier to Boeing…..much like Spirit Aerosystems…..that has been recently causing Boeing lots of assembly issues.

Why the DR.? That question would best be answered by FTS Holdings. It almost has the feel of the much ballyhooed and never built Financial Centre of the Americas.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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If you want to see how important is the government for building fortunes, just look what happened in Cuba starting in 1959. A lot of people became very rich the years before Castro rose to power. Once he was there, the same Cuban government that in the years before let those people build a fortune took from them every nickle and dime, all their properties and then kicked out of Cuba all of them with only the shirts on their back. Since that too came from the government, there was nothing anyone was able to do about it. To this day the Cuban government is in control of brands, properties, etc that was expropriated from the rich starting in 1959.

There is no way around that. No one can build a fortune without dealing with the government and then only to the levels that the government allows.
 
Jan 9, 2004
11,044
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Don’t forget to say he wss a Deputy and Senator for La Altagracia province. Without the government, it can’t be done.


To whom? People in the government? Why even bother, Punta Cana would had existed without ever dealing with the government. :censored:


Certainly, it had to be paid to a government official. There is no way around that. A fortune can’t be made without dealing with the government.


I Punta Cana exist, it’s because the government let it exist. Case in point, PC needed the permit to operate the airport and there was no way to do it without that.


But they had to deal with the government prior to being allowed to do what they did. As said before, there is no way around that.


Hmm, you mesn the PC airport was able to operate without the permit? Land ownership was settled without desling with anyone from the government? They don’t know anything about government corruption because they never needed to deal with the government, they just went ahead? :unsure:


It all comes down to a very simple thing: without government even PC wouldn’t be able to get off the ground. They know that and you know that.

Now, about those stories they have of directly dealing with the government in order to be allowed to do several things in the DR because without it would be impossible…

I already gave examples that PC wouldn’t be possible in Cuba or in modern Haiti precisely due to the governments (one strong and very hands on and the other hardly existing.)

The only issue I see here is what role the government played in the success of PC…….and quite frankly, absent the government payoffs to “approve” things…….that is where it ended.

Of course now that it has been successful beyond their wildest dreams……..the government wants to now take credit.

Bottom line is PC would have been much more successful a lot sooner without the corrupt governments……

And your comparisons are totally flawed.

The government of Cuba as a communist country does not even allow private enterprise of any scale to even exist.

Haiti has not had a real functioning government in decades…..and probably will not have one for decades. But they do have beautiful beaches too. The difference between them and the DR is in the corruption levels. To paraphrase President Mejia when asked about government corruption by his political party……..he said…….but we steal less than them (the other party).

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
 
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MoJoInDR

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
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Austin, Texas
Don’t forget the Barna Management School. That is the first Dominican business school and it might be the first of its kind in the Caribbean. It used to be that if someone wanted to get a more specialized education on running a company, they had to go abroad usually to the United States. Not anymore. I’m actually expecting more such schools to appear in the next few years.

Also Chavón Escuela de Diseño is the best design/art school in the Caribbean. I don’t know if they still do, but they had a partnership with the Parsons School of Design in NYC, which is one of the best in the world in that field.
What are the criteria for "...the best design/art school in the Caribbean..."?
 

MoJoInDR

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
442
146
43
Austin, Texas
If you want to see how important is the government for building fortunes, just look what happened in Cuba starting in 1959. A lot of people became very rich the years before Castro rose to power. Once he was there, the same Cuban government that in the years before let those people build a fortune took from them every nickle and dime, all their properties and then kicked out of Cuba all of them with only the shirts on their back. Since that too came from the government, there was nothing anyone was able to do about it. To this day the Cuban government is in control of brands, properties, etc that was expropriated from the rich starting in 1959.

There is no way around that. No one can build a fortune without dealing with the government and then only to the levels that the government allows.
"...A lot of people..."... That's funny... And not really true.
 
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