Absolutely Right - It's a Crime

C

chico bill

Guest
http://www.puertoplatadigital.com/verNoticia.aspx?Id=30396


Félix García is 100% + correct. Whoever is in charge of the POP to Navarette road work should have been fired along time ago. It is indeed criminal (and it is likely corruption and theft have occurred on this project on a monumental scale)

Not only is the work agonizingly slow, it is also shoddy and several lives have been lost because of poor traffic control or vehicles losing control encountering the rough conditions.

My advice is bring in foreign road contracting companies that could have done this work to a pristine world standard of roadway construction in 18 months - not 6 years, or however long it has been. Heck I bet Haiti could build a better road and way faster if given the money wasted on this boondoggle.

This disastrous project is seen by thousands of tourists weekly and the fact it services the routes to Santiago and Puerto Plata from the Amber Cove port is showing the world visitors a fine example of a real Dominican cluster-f*ck.
 
T

the gorgon

Guest
http://www.puertoplatadigital.com/verNoticia.aspx?Id=30396


Félix García is 100% + correct. Whoever is in charge of the POP to Navarette road work should have been fired along time ago. It is indeed criminal (and it is likely corruption and theft have occurred on this project on a monumental scale)

Not only is the work agonizingly slow, it is also shoddy and several lives have been lost because of poor traffic control or vehicles losing control encountering the rough conditions.

My advice is bring in foreign road contracting companies that could have done this work to a pristine world standard of roadway construction in 18 months - not 6 years, or however long it has been. Heck I bet Haiti could build a better road and way faster if given the money wasted on this boondoggle.

This disastrous project is seen by thousands of tourists weekly and the fact it services the routes to Santiago and Puerto Plata from the Amber Cove port is showing the world visitors a fine example of a real Dominican cluster-f*ck.
is the rate of loss of life greater with the road works, or before they were undertaken? do you have, er, data?
 
C

chico bill

Guest
is the rate of loss of life greater with the road works, or before they were undertaken? do you have, er, data?
No and I don't intend to research it, but I have read at least 4 incidents attributable to road construction - a couple moto accidents and a couple car rollovers. And I am sure I have only read a fraction of incidents.

In any even you must travel that road searching for cars in Santiago ? You know it has taken way too long for basically a road resurfacing project
 
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the gorgon

Guest
No and I don't intend to research it, but I have read at least 4 incidents attributable to road construction - a couple moto accidents and a couple car rollovers. And I am sure I have only read a fraction of incidents.

In any even you must travel that road searching for cars in Santiago ? You know it has taken way too long for basically a road resurfacing project
actually, i am absolutely ignorant of what it entails to construct a road. i have no idea of the engineering feats which are required. i do not know anything about terrain, drainage, soil and substrate composition. i do not know anything about laws like eminent domain, and how they function, so i do not know how long it takes to get a colmado out of the way of a back hoe. i do not know anything about the political realities, such as which politician and his primos get the heavy equipment contracts.

therefore, i am unable to state, with conviction informed by knowledge, if the construction is slow, BY DOMINICAN STANDARDS. and yes, when i have to go to Santiago i would like to spend less time on the bus. however, the question remains..

is is less safe?
 
C

Cdn_Gringo

Guest
I think back home I heard somewhere that the going price for one Km of new road was about $1 million. That is with quality aggregate and decent asphalt being available close by. The DR uses caliche for the most part and I don't think that is the best choice for a roadbed. Of course, readily available quality asphalt is not an option here either. I doubt the DR can afford the North American pavement Mafia so we get what we get. It takes so long to complete new roads here because long before the new road is finished, they have to start the repairs resulting from poor materials, lax construction practices and overweight vehicles.
 
U

user123

Guest
My guess is that the project is going at the exact pace the PLD wants it, the ribbon-cutting just in time for the elections.
 
T

the gorgon

Guest
many years ago, perhaps around 2006, or thereabouts, there was a stretch of road from the entrance of La Roca to roughly the now defunct night club Scape. nobody seemed to be able to fix it. a crew would do some makeshift repairs very time it became impassable, and that would hold for a few months, only to revert to disaster.

in 2006, a road and highway specialist, who had built numerous stretches in the US mainland, and Puerto Rico, watched the attempts at repair, and told the foreman type that they were making essential mistakes, and the repairs would not hold.

predictably, the forman told him to bugger off, and mind his business.

predictably, in 6 months, the road could not be used.
 
C

chico bill

Guest
As an engineer I have built many roads new and reconstructed.
Road standards here are extremely poor - not the worst in the world but never built to last.
Weak and poorly compacted base and subbase courses, inadequate drainage and poor asphalt placement , often placed cool with no binder all contribute to rapidly disintegrating conditions.

But this POP-Navarette road resurfacing (widening) should have been completed years ago. It's a real career job for some to get on road works because 4 projects could comprise your whole career !
 
B

Big

Guest
I can get you a CAT-ap1055 "delivered" here for 245.000U.S (wheeled paver) but if you don't put in the correct mix you may as well be spreading bread crumbs
 
Z

zoomzx11

Guest
As an engineer I have built many roads new and reconstructed.
Road standards here are extremely poor - not the worst in the world but never built to last.
Weak and poorly compacted base and subbase courses, inadequate drainage and poor asphalt placement , often placed cool with no binder all contribute to rapidly disintegrating conditions.

But this POP-Navarette road resurfacing (widening) should have been completed years ago. It's a real career job for some to get on road works because 4 projects could comprise your whole career !
By first world standards it had taken a long time.
During the endless construction the road seems even more dangerous that before construction started.
What's worse is that Dominican highways do not last very long.
Soooo, even when the road is finished it will soon fall apart.
Part of the problem is the lack of regulation of truck loads.
If you look at some of the big trucks you see the rear axles are bent such that the tires wobble.
The load required to bend the axles has to be enormous.
No highway could stand up to the massive truck over loading that is the norm here.
Terrible roads is just part of life here and will not improve in the foreseeable future.
I am happy each day the lights, water and Internet work.
If I have to drive the PP to Navarette road I try and pick a light traffic day, go slow and only travel in the day time.
 
W

windeguy

Guest
After being on that road a couple of times in Caribe Tours buses, my prediction of the road being completed within about 50 years is changing to never actually being completed. As others have mentioned, the poor practices in place will mean that even before they "finish", the newly constructed parts will already fail.
 
C

chico bill

Guest
By first world standards it had taken a long time.
During the endless construction the road seems even more dangerous that before construction started.
What's worse is that Dominican highways do not last very long.
Soooo, even when the road is finished it will soon fall apart.
Part of the problem is the lack of regulation of truck loads.
If you look at some of the big trucks you see the rear axles are bent such that the tires wobble.
The load required to bend the axles has to be enormous.
No highway could stand up to the massive truck over loading that is the norm here.
Terrible roads is just part of life here and will not improve in the foreseeable future.
I am happy each day the lights, water and Internet work.
If I have to drive the PP to Navarette road I try and pick a light traffic day, go slow and only travel in the day time.
Spot on - trucks here are overloaded to the point of severely breaking down the roads.
But I say my even 4th world standards this project has gone past it's use-by-date
 
W

william webster

Guest
The idea of bringing in foreign firms to build the roads has been tried before

A bit of a moratorium on that these days....
spelled Odebrecht
 
M

malko

Guest
actually, i am absolutely ignorant of what it entails to construct a road. i have no idea of the engineering feats which are required. i do not know anything about terrain, drainage, soil and substrate composition. i do not know anything about laws like eminent domain, and how they function, so i do not know how long it takes to get a colmado out of the way of a back hoe. i do not know anything about the political realities, such as which politician and his primos get the heavy equipment contracts.

therefore, i am unable to state, with conviction informed by knowledge, if the construction is slow, BY DOMINICAN STANDARDS. and yes, when i have to go to Santiago i would like to spend less time on the bus. however, the question remains..

is is less safe?
The construction of the stretch of road POP-Navarette is bloody slow by ANY standards.....

There is a part, right out of the village before altamira----- the village that has the metal overhead pedestrian crossing---- that has never been up to the standard of being called a road. That section has collapsed and crumbled at least 5 times in the past years. They leave like that for a bit, and cars have to slow down to a crawl-----or not if you have a high clearance, lol------- and lorries are pratically at a standstill.
It may be only a couple of dozen meters long, but it reflects really poorly on dominican road-building capacities.
I understand that my country-road may collapse/crumble and that it takes years to redo it.......... but a main road like that ?
 
N

NALs

Guest
The idea of bringing in foreign firms to build the roads has been tried before

A bit of a moratorium on that these days....
spelled Odebrecht
They actually built and/or rebuilt good highways, overpasses, tunnels, avenues, parks... They even gave their opinion on helping the traffic in SD, some of their ideas were applied to some roads that required a change in flows. Then came the corruption scandal, but they built good roads. Even the retornos look professional and big. That's one way of knowing if a road was designed/made by Odebrecht.

The other facts was that their construction sites were always clean, their construction guys were mostly Dominicans and with all the safety clothes. It was actually nice to see Odebrecht working.
 
C

caribmike

Guest
Drove that sh***y road today back to Santiago. Saw one accident and a million stupid drivers. Wonder were they all come from?
 
E

El Rey de Mangu

Guest
Drove that sh***y road today back to Santiago. Saw one accident and a million stupid drivers. Wonder were they all come from?
I wonder are there are any reliable stats. Because to me, they really kill a lot of people on the roads. I've never seen more blood and guts on the roadways anywhere in my life. The 6 de Noviembre en route to san cristobal was especially horrific. I've never seen such reckless driving ever.

I walked to the banca a few times today on the main road in Cabarete. The buses and trucks and public cars that are just killing it down that road. it's disgusting.
 
C

caribmike

Guest
Yep, we came through Cabarete too today. Cabarete was full of stupid drivers too. :tired:
 
W

william webster

Guest
They actually built and/or rebuilt good highways, overpasses, tunnels, avenues, parks... They even gave their opinion on helping the traffic in SD, some of their ideas were applied to some roads that required a change in flows. Then came the corruption scandal, but they built good roads. Even the retornos look professional and big. That's one way of knowing if a road was designed/made by Odebrecht.

The other facts was that their construction sites were always clean, their construction guys were mostly Dominicans and with all the safety clothes. It was actually nice to see Odebrecht working.
sure they did....great roads

And this country isn't the only one they are involved in the scandal... many more
 
L

lifeisgreat

Guest
sure they did....great roads

And this country isn't the only one they are involved in the scandal... many more
Even with the bribes might of been cheaper to use them for rd would of lasted an election at least...