ADD: Anti-Dominicano Days

[TEHAMA]

What is so wrong with professionals helping out a friend in need. Wouldn't you expect the same - I know I would. If I call a family member or friend who is a lawyer for some legal advice I would not expect him to start charging for every minute that we talk. Same goes for friends in medical fields. I would be insulted if I received a bill in the mail. What is so wrong with friends bipassing bureaucratic bs so that they can help other friends.

If you are so offended by the synergy created by AZB's friendships I would think you have a highly anal retentive personality (ie the need for rules and procedures to be followed 100% of the time). I don't think that this personality type is conducive to a happy life in DR.

Chris- I am not going to debate this much. I think most people know right from wrong, and that there is "NO FREE LUNCH." A favor is I cut your grass while youre on vacation. Not give you free medicines. Who will replace that supply? The hard working Dominicans. Who will pay a higher price for the same medicine next time? How many other favors is this Doctor providing?

I am sure your personality type find no fault with ENRON distributing in favors either.
And yeah, youre probably correct about my personality type and having a happy life here.
TEHAMA

 

[Robert]

AZB, you really are wasting your time posting on some subjects.
Some people will never get it or don't have the desire to get it.

Unfortunately many ex pats/gringos have a low opinion of Dominicans due to their own local low socio economic circle of friends. This also works in the reverse, as many better off Dominicans have a low opinion of ex-pats due to who they socialize with.

If you surround yourself with good people, good things happen...

 

[MONCHI8]

Tehama

So you think it's wrong what AZB does with his friends?

Why do you choose to make your life difficult here?

Let me see, you would rather have gotten the flu, gonne to the hospital and be charged twice as much as everyone else because you're not a poor dominican. This is what pisses me off!!!!!!!

People DR is not a fair country and things don't work the way they do back home!!!

Why do you insist on wanting to make things here as they were back home?

Yes it would be nice to have no corruption, poverty, and for things to work like they should. But they don't so the best option is to make your life here as easy as possible or else go back home because some things will never change here.

Then again like Robert said "Some people will never get it or don't have the desire to get it".

 

[Bartolomeo67]

Antwerp, March 19

u ppl complain of ADD i feel the complete opposite to that that every day in london coz there aint ne dominicans there

Hey ghetto88,
come to Antwerp, Belgium for the day on March 19. Sergio Vargas and Aventura play in the Sportpaleis that night to make you feel better.
You will meet plenty of dominicans from Holland and Belgium.
www.antilliaansefeesten.be - english - indoor festival
Bartolomeo

 

[NALs]

AZB, you really are wasting your time posting on some subjects.
Some people will never get it or don't have the desire to get it.

Unfortunately many ex pats/gringos have a low opinion of Dominicans due to their own local low socio economic circle of friends. This also works in the reverse, as many better off Dominicans have a low opinion of ex-pats due to who they socialize with.

If you surround yourself with good people, good things happen...

You know what they say...

"Tell me with who you sorround yourself with and I'll tell you who you are..." or something like that.

 

[TEHAMA]

So you think it's wrong what AZB does with his friends?

Why do you choose to make your life difficult here?

Let me see, you would rather have gotten the flu, gonne to the hospital and be charged twice as much as everyone else because you're not a poor dominican. This is what pisses me off!!!!!!!

People DR is not a fair country and things don't work the way they do back home!!!

Why do you insist on wanting to make things here as they were back home?

Yes it would be nice to have no corruption, poverty, and for things to work like they should. But they don't so the best option is to make your life here as easy as possible or else go back home because some things will never change here.

Then again like Robert said "Some people will never get it or don't have the desire to get it".

NO. I think many might be missing my point. Robert came close. DR is DR. If it was any different it wouldn't be DR. I don't want the US in the DR. If so, I would move. But at what point do you sell your soul to fit in? The story with the Doctor and free medicines would have much more "reasonable" to me if he was unemployed, in between checks or something like that and the Doctor covered him. What I dont think many people can accept is that because it goes out the back door doesn't mean its free. It affects everyone. Someone is paying for that, but I guess everyone passes the bill to someone else and its okay. Until the hopsital goes bankrupt or the Nurses go on strike.

It happens around the world since the beginning of man, probably. Its just not my style.

But to advise someone that "you should seek out GOOD people." And list those as examples?? Yeah right. I would be most uncomfortable around those type people and definately would not fit in.

I am not prudest. I guess, my morales are maybe a bit too high for some folks! Some folks are takers and others are givers.

On three seperate occassions, I have met male tourists claiming not be interested in the sex trade. "I dont pay for sex, I dont have too." All three pursued avenues clubs, discos, bars, beaches to seek out normal nice Dominicans. Two were setup and robbed and the third probably will never return considering the kniving. The tourists I've met that pay and handle sex trade have rarely encountered major problems.

I Agree surround yourself with good people. That applies to people anywhere. Its just easier said than done, to me.
TEHAMA
-Okay, I see I am getting beatup now. I got the support and encouragement to get past my ADD. Special thanks to NAUFRAGO and ROCKY. I am out of this thread.

 

[thepiper]

Earth to TEHEMA

Chris- I am not going to debate this much. I think most people know right from wrong, and that there is "NO FREE LUNCH." A favor is I cut your grass while youre on vacation. Not give you free medicines. Who will replace that supply? The hard working Dominicans. Who will pay a higher price for the same medicine next time? How many other favors is this Doctor providing?

I am sure your personality type find no fault with ENRON distributing in favors either.
And yeah, youre probably correct about my personality type and having a happy life here.
TEHAMA

A doctor can get his hands on free medicine given by the drug companies and I am sure that AZB went to a private clinic not a public hospital. My wife is a very honest person who demonstrates her love for the human race daily. She works at a "clinica" private clinic in santiago. Do you really think I am going to be treated just like you in that place. Of course not, they treat me like a prince, because I'm marries to a co-worker who looks out for their family members also. As a matter of fact, a friend of mine was in a jet ski accident a few weeks ago and all it took was a call from me and every thing was taken care of. All he had to pay was the materials for his cast.

So what you are saying is that if your brother work at ma'bell you couldn't get fast telephone service.

 

[Robert]

TEHAMA, what about you?

What places do you go?
What do you do here?
Why are you here?
Are you a member of any local clubs?
How's your Spanish?
Do you have family here?
What do you do in your free time?
etc etc etc....

 

[AZB]

Tehama, the problem is not in Dominicans, the problem is in you. You are the problem here, not the dominicans. But you will not understand that, you will continue to suffer in this country.
The medicines I had received have a label printed on them "muestra medica". Does that mean anything to you? I bet you speak no spanish, not even a few words to save your life. This means "medical samples". All doctors get all kinds of samples for everything from pharmaceutical visitors. Its not like my girlfriend broke into pharmacy at night and stole a bunch of drugs for me.
Police help all their friends in any country, not just in DR. My friends in NYC police have offered to help me if I get into any traffic problem in their state.
Any manager in any company in DR who gets a company vehicle gets to drive it for personal use. My friend is no different. He is not dumb to waste his gasoline in his personal car when the company's SUV is full of company's gas.
Tehama, why are you so bent on making your life difficult here in DR? Why can't people like you just go with the flow and stop complaining? Why are you so dumb not to realize that what you are doing is completely wrong and your attitude sucks towards life and Dominicans.
wake up girl.
AZB

 

[GilbertArenas]

Chris- I am not going to debate this much. I think most people know right from wrong, and that there is "NO FREE LUNCH." A favor is I cut your grass while youre on vacation. Not give you free medicines. Who will replace that supply? The hard working Dominicans. Who will pay a higher price for the same medicine next time? How many other favors is this Doctor providing?

I am sure your personality type find no fault with ENRON distributing in favors either.
And yeah, youre probably correct about my personality type and having a happy life here.
TEHAMA

Tehama,

I hear where you're coming from.......remember though morality/righteousness differs from country to country. There is always a core morality, but accepting handouts for favors is a common practice in the DR due to the poverty.

Honestly most Dominicans don't mind it, there is a pervasive attitude in the DR that EVERYONE is getting f-d over at the end of the day......so get what's yours.

I've noticed in the US they always say things like "Every vote counts", "One person can make a difference". That is true to a point, in a country where the political and social systems will LISTEN to that single person. In the DR everyone is smart enough to know the corruption and "dog eat dog" mentality is going to be there long after they die.

At that point what is moral? What is right? I think there is a good baseline most people go by, and it's usually the bible..........but if it comes down to getting some medicine off the underground market or using free gasoline from some foreign company who is paying you 30% what they pay in their own country, I see how many Dominicans wouldn't think twice about taking advantage.

Now, don't get me wrong....I wouldn't do so. I do believe in the old saying "what goes around comes around" and this life of favors quickly gets out of hand.......and you have far too many "friends" constantly paying you visits.

However, remember wealth allows the luxury of righteousness and morality in many instances. Morality many times is a combination of education, theology, upbringing and a trustworthyh society. I think you may be expecting too much of the common Dominican.

I applaud you for sticking to your morals, I just wouldn't judge Dominicans by the same standard. Cut them some slack.............but obviously you can always point out a scumbag in any country.

Get off Tehama's back people. She is obviously just going through some culture shock, I went through the same in the US.

 

[Chirimoya]

Tehama is not a she!

 

[arturo]

these are only my opinions

Tehama,

I hear where you're coming from.......remember though morality/righteousness differs from country to country. There is always a core morality, but accepting handouts for favors is a common practice in the DR due to the poverty.

Honestly most Dominicans don't mind it, there is a pervasive attitude in the DR that EVERYONE is getting f-d over at the end of the day......so get what's yours.

I've noticed in the US they always say things like "Every vote counts", "One person can make a difference". That is true to a point, in a country where the political and social systems will LISTEN to that single person. In the DR everyone is smart enough to know the corruption and "dog eat dog" mentality is going to be there long after they die.

At that point what is moral? What is right? I think there is a good baseline most people go by, and it's usually the bible..........but if it comes down to getting some medicine off the underground market or using free gasoline from some foreign company who is paying you 30% what they pay in their own country, I see how many Dominicans wouldn't think twice about taking advantage.

Now, don't get me wrong....I wouldn't do so. I do believe in the old saying "what goes around comes around" and this life of favors quickly gets out of hand.......and you have far too many "friends" constantly paying you visits.

However, remember wealth allows the luxury of righteousness and morality in many instances. Morality many times is a combination of education, theology, upbringing and a trustworthyh society. I think you may be expecting too much of the common Dominican.

I applaud you for sticking to your morals, I just wouldn't judge Dominicans by the same standard. Cut them some slack.............but obviously you can always point out a scumbag in any country.

Get off Tehama's back people. She is obviously just going through some culture shock, I went through the same in the US.

I personally feel it?s more important to be comfortable with oneself and have confidence in one?s abilities and character than the ?quality?of the people with whom you choose to associate yourself. I think, personally, the attributes of the people around you increase in direct proportion to your level of self doubt. I think we all doubt ourselves. The difference is in the degree of self doubt we have and how skillfully we manage that self doubt.

I don?t personally agree with people sponging off other people. I think we should make our own way in the world, as best we can. On the other hand, I have an affinity for the beliefs Karl Marx expressed when he said ?from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.?

My experience has been that the Dominican Republic is much more of a sophist society than many places in the developed world. In other words, there is a pervasive (by pervasive I mean it cuts across all segments and socio economic strata of Dominican society, including ?real? Dominicans) ?**** them before they **** you?attitude. There are, of course, exceptions, but they are unfortuanately few and far between.

How real is real? What percentage of the population here resemble which descriptions in this thread. You be the judge.

peace

 

[TEHAMA]

Thank you

... there is a pervasive attitude in the DR that EVERYONE is getting f-d over at the end of the day......so get what's yours.

I've noticed in the US they always say things like "Every vote counts", "One person can make a difference". That is true to a point, in a country where the political and social systems will LISTEN to that single person. In the DR everyone is smart enough to know the corruption and "dog eat dog" mentality is going to be there long after they die.

At that point what is moral? What is right? I think there is a good baseline most people go by, and it's usually the bible..........but if it comes down to getting some medicine off the underground market or using free gasoline from some foreign company who is paying you 30% what they pay in their own country, I see how many Dominicans wouldn't think twice about taking advantage.

Now, don't get me wrong....I wouldn't do so. I do believe in the old saying "what goes around comes around" and this life of favors quickly gets out of hand.......and you have far too many "friends" constantly paying you visits.

However, remember wealth allows the luxury of righteousness and morality in many instances. Morality many times is a combination of education, theology, upbringing and a trustworthyh society. I think you may be expecting too much of the common Dominican.

I applaud you for sticking to your morals, I just wouldn't judge Dominicans by the same standard. Cut them some slack.............but obviously you can always point out a scumbag in any country.

This makes much more sense to me. It might even be what AZB was trying to say before the insults. However, I dont think I can change and become a predictor in this country knowing there are so many poor people struggling daily. It would be like bullying. Like NAUFRAGO reminded me, I have MANY other options- they don't. And for me to come and "crap" on them the way some of their own people do....I just can't do that. Sorry.

I'll just sideline for a while. Observe and learn. Who knows maybe in another 7 months I might feel totally different.

Excellent explanation, Gilbert. Thanks again.
TEHAMA
Robert- I appreciate your interest in helping size-up my situation, but found a few questions to be a bit more than I am willing to share through this medium. Nothing personal.

 

[TEHAMA]

LOUD and CLEAR

I just PM'd Gilbert this message below, but felt a need to share this again for others.


Gilbert,
This one line came through louder than all other posters.

"remember wealth allows the luxury of righteousness and morality in many instances."

 

[Chirimoya]

Impressive contributions from Gilbert and arturo!

 

[Marianopolita]

I would like to add...

I sent Gilbert Arenas a PM this morning because I find his contributions in general to be on point and always well versed (especially in this thread).

Congrats! It makes reading your posts a delight.


-Lesley D-

 

[Snuffy]

I've found African Americans and obviously other Latinos in the US to be much more approachable. I think black americans go through a lot of the stuff we do in terms of initial reaction.

Mostly I find the typical white American to be the most racist/culturally ignorant by far here in the US. Again, it's not 100% of the people obviously but not a day goes by where I'm not placed in an uncomfortable situation.

Gilbert, I too enjoy reading your comments. When you say that not a day goes by........I think you know how some white people (because they are so obviously not dominican) feel when coming here to live. It is constantly being put in uncomfortable situations. After a time you just want to vent. And Tacoma has done so and that is okay.

Hopefully through discussion like this we all learn to be more understanding. We are all creating the future...we will either create a better, more humane future or we will create a future where we are even more divided.

 

[miguel]

El Diablazoooooo!!!!

Well said Miguel.

I think a lot of the Americans/Canadians need to remember WHY they moved to the DR. I've always gotten the impression many moved to the North Coast/Santo Domingo etc expecting to live in a "tropical paradise", complete with maids, drivers, gardeners etc for next to nothing. Didn't you guys giggle at the possibilities at having a little maid running around, butler blah blah.

Then you got to the DR, and you didn't get your maid from the movies, but an extremely poor, uneducated, street savvy woman who doesn't really like you? Maybe you don't like being stared at like you're from outer space? Well guess what, you are probably WHITE and RICH (in comparison) in the middle of a sea of impoverished DARK uneducated Dominicans. How do you expect to be treated? If educated people in your own country can be so racist towards me here, how do you expect uneducated, hungry and extremely poor people to treat you in my country?

Do you seriously think the common Dominican is dumb enough not to realize they are extremely impoverished.........and you are in their country trying to profit (whether it be financial or physical) off their financial state?

Many of you on here complain about the price of a box of cereal, and other American oddities while your maid goes home to a dirt floor, and eats rice (and beans if they're lucky) every single night of the week. You complain about the inconsistent electricity, while they have NO electricity at all.

You say you give them more than most Dominicans give their maids, but you AREN'T Dominican. You weren't born there, you went there to profit off their misery.

I'm just trying to give you their perspective. I had long conversations with our maids when I was a kid, they aren't as dumb as you think. Many of them are extremely intelligent, but they just haven't had a formal education so their intelligence plays out in street smarts. They know you are taking advantage of them........so they do the same to you.

I don't forgive them for doing this, and it certainly isn't 100% of the country but don't forget your true purpose for being in that country.........you thought it was going to be a partial "free ride". It doesn't exist.

Feel free to stay in the DR obviously, but just realize you are a fish out of water there. It's going to be the same there for the next hundred years. Everyone is going to stay black, and your contrast combined with your wealth will make you stand out........you will ALWAYS be a target.

You seriously need to think of it this way, maybe it will help you. If you lived in the US and worked as a pool cleaner for Bill Gates, and were there EVERY day ALL day............how overwhelmed would you be by his lifestyle and money? Now, multiply that by 100 and you have what a literal "dirt poor" Dominican feels around you.

Gilbert, compadre, you are more than 1,000,000, 0000% right. I have nothing else to add to this thread(unless quoted) because all I could have said, you said it. Man, you are so right that if I ever meet you, your first 75 Presidentes will be on me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
You wrote an amazing true and "straight to the point" post that EVERY SINGLE DOMINICAN SHOULD AGREE WITH. Amazing!. Thanks.

 

[miguel]

Shhhhhhh!

Funny when I met miguel for the first time in a santo domingo Bar, I told him to go put some more paper in the toilet and clean up the mess a customer created after vomitting in the sink. Another cusomer saw miguel in the parking lot, so he threw his car keys at him and told him to park his baby nicely, later he gave miguel 20 pesos. One weird guy squeezed miguel's butt and told him "how they both see the world with the same eyes...".
So miguel, its not so difficult to confuse you for a cafeteria worker, I bet you had confused many people through-out your life.
Have a nice day.
AZB

Jack behind, that was supposed to be our little secret!!!. Now the cat is out of the bag!. Thanks, Jack behind. But I still have more hair than you .

See, I am not a "flashy" person when I am on vacation. I do not wear 50 gold chains nor I rent a Mercedes nor I surround myself with 20 "hang-ons". I am cared for by everybody because to me, everybody is the same, poor or rich, black or white. Now, when I am on vacation in the DR, I take a dominican mentality. I try to help as much as I can and I DO NOT let things that are not under my control get the best of me. I am just a cool dude, or how you called me "miguel is so cool that from now on I will call him culo".

But yes, it's easy to mistake me for a "toilet cleaner" (althought it has never happened) only because I mingle with ALLLLLL. Why do you think that many dominican-yorks and many foreigners are hated over in the DR?. Because not only they try to change the whole country but also because some think that they are better than the average dominican. Comprende?.

Ps: AZB, on your second post, you mention all the favors that the "right" people do for you, so you are saying that you are a "lambon"?, hehe. Alrighty then!.

 

[gringito]

You Could Be Shoveling Snow..

I hear you loud and clear. As a tall, blue-eyed gringo who has been spending half of his time in the DR for 5 years now, I have experienced your frustrations as well as all three of the phases Rocky mentioned. But when I am having an ADD I have learned to remember the following: 1) Presidente is one of the coldest and best beers I have ever tasted, 2) Cafe Santo Domingo beats the finest Colombian coffees that I have found, 3) Merengue is about as much fun as one can have with music and 4) the women are absolutely outrageous. I find corruption, thieves, sankies, whores and really cool people in every country I travel to around the world. I just think the DR has a more fun class of all of the above than all the other countries I travel to. The only problem is too many gringos here!

Warmest Regards