No US bashing, but it is OK for gringuitos TO Bash the DR and Latin America all the time, right?
(rolls eye)
(rolls eye)
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Al Sharpton alive and kicking at the US Embassy!
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Las embajadas de los EEUU solo les gusta ayudar a sus ciudadanos cuando les conviene, o cuando le han puesto presi?n desde los EEUU. Mira en Chile cuando mataron al presidente Allende. Hab?a una mujer que hab?a avisado que su esposo lo quer?an matar porque el hab?a sido testigo de que los gringos fueron a llevar armas para llevar a cabo el golpe de estado en Chile, y aun cuando le avisaron que necesitaban refugio y aun cuando ella necesitaba ayuda para regresarse a los EEUU, mira ver si esa oficina tuvo la CACHAZA de ayudar a esa pobre viuda.
Un caso similar paso en El Salvador en los a?os 80' cuando la guerra.
Asi mismo era en los Estados Unidos hasta principio de los 70's asi que no vengan hablar vacuencia. WHITE ONLY, asi mismo lo ponian en la puerta.
This may all be true, but, it is not for discussion on this thread. We're not going to fight the race fights all over again. Keep it on topic and in context or you will be deleted.
I agree with you on that but like in most situations in life we often have several good alternatives to choose from but we can only make a choice. It is highly probable that the fact that the embassador is african-american (based on information here) affected his decision. So all we have is a biased choice but a good choice all the same. We can fault the choice as being biased but we cannot fault it's goodness.
I do not think that the embassy needs to go on a warpath and include other clubs based on hearsay or try to change what is accepted in the DR. That is not the objective here. The objective is to make a bold statement and take a stand.
This is 2007 and not 1907.
Sholly
Thanks for this explanation of how it works DAKRA. It is quite amazing that so much time and effort is spent on one club in Santo Domingo. It is not really a 'world affair' you know. In the big scheme of things, it is quite unimportant.
I get the feeling that someone felt insulted somewhere. Perhaps not dressed properly, perhaps like AZB said, in the wrong company?
From what the posters in SD say, they regularly turn away people that they don't want in their club. I've not heard of properly dressed and in good company blacks being turned away, but who knows. They police their doors and let in who they want in. It is sure that racism and classism is alive and well in the DR.
It is also sure that if people try to 'inject' their values in the Dominican Society, it does not feel right at all - Its the principle of the thing. Don't patronise the club if you don't want to dammit! But don't make an issue of it.
Someone said on this thread that a chat with the management would have been more productive. Yes! This is how things are done here locally. Get with the program already and understand the local culture. Don't come in with highhanded actions!
To use Sholly24's words .. Your Bold Statement and Taking a Stand is making you look ridiculous and confirms that you don't know your ass from your elbow in the DR society.
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Sholly, have you and Nal's been hanging out?
The security on the door are the ones that say "yes" or "no" and they are usually dark skinned. So who's to blame? The security or the owner?
Mmmmm.... Maybe we should leave the whole culturally ingrained Dominican power trip discussion for another thread.
The owner of the Loft is going to make a killing this weekend, no pun intended.
The security on the door are the ones that say "yes" or "no" and they are usually dark skinned. So who's to blame? The security or the owner?
Mmmmm.... Maybe we should leave the whole culturally ingrained Dominican power trip discussion for another thread.
The owner of the Loft is going to make a killing this weekend, no pun intended.
Just Perhaps my may have heard this one....
I have worked in the field of EO (Equal Opportunity) for many years and have seen it all and have heard it all. I never get emotional about what I read, hear, see, or investigate. It often is too bad that in 2007 people still treat one another badly based upon physical characterists. Recently I reviewed a case here in the US that makes think of how things may occur in the DR:
{Please remember that this talks about SKIN Color only....} :glasses:
"If you're White - You're Alright"
"If you're Brown - Stick Around"
"If you're Black - Stay Back"
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I remember reading a post on another website a while back where the OP was talking about a new night club that had opened in the DR and how is was packed full every night with good looking and "Hot" people. Another poster asked if there was a website or something that he could get more information about the club. The OP posted photo from the club and a website for it. After seeing the advertising photographs of the nightclub where young people were dancing and having a good time, you did NOT see one dark face in the group. All of them appeared to be Dominicans but the color of their skin appeared to be very very light skin. There were several pictures taken throughout the night and in various areas of this night club. I saw these pictures myself and was baffled on why the Advertising Photographs of this new Dominican Nightclub would only show pictures of very very light skin people.
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I am not getting off topic but one may have to consider that the Loft, just like the nightclub that I mentioned above want a clientel of only the "Light Skin" people .
Your thoughts?
:ermm:
I have worked in the field of EO (Equal Opportunity) for many years and have seen it all and have heard it all. I never get emotional about what I read, hear, see, or investigate. It often is too bad that in 2007 people still treat one another badly based upon physical characterists. Recently I reviewed a case here in the US that makes think of how things may occur in the DR:
{Please remember that this talks about SKIN Color only....} :glasses:
"If you're White - You're Alright"
"If you're Brown - Stick Around"
"If you're Black - Stay Back"
***************************************
I remember reading a post on another website a while back where the OP was talking about a new night club that had opened in the DR and how is was packed full every night with good looking and "Hot" people. Another poster asked if there was a website or something that he could get more information about the club. The OP posted photo from the club and a website for it. After seeing the advertising photographs of the nightclub where young people were dancing and having a good time, you did NOT see one dark face in the group. All of them appeared to be Dominicans but the color of their skin appeared to be very very light skin. There were several pictures taken throughout the night and in various areas of this night club. I saw these pictures myself and was baffled on why the Advertising Photographs of this new Dominican Nightclub would only show pictures of very very light skin people.
***************************************
I am not getting off topic but one may have to consider that the Loft, just like the nightclub that I mentioned above want a clientel of only the "Light Skin" people .
Your thoughts?
:ermm:
Another Black Eye for the DR
A simple google search reveals numerous articles similar to the Miami Herald article and is portraying the DR as a racist society, that's too bad. On a personal level, I receive nothing but nice and warm feelings in Santiago and with NYC Dominicans, sometimes they treat me like royalty overthere. I understand that the LOFT will continue to make tons of cash regardless of the US Embassy post, but the country as a whole suffers, because it is just another negative article emphasizing that the DR is racist and should be avoided, which is not good for business.
On another note:
Dominicans like things in a certain type of way, the men will dress the same when they go out (clean cut, collard shirts, dress jeans, no jewelry) and women (nice heels, sexy jeans, nice blouse, and straight hair), they'll drink Johnny Walker or Miller Genuine Draft, they're not into trend setting and like things the way they are. So when in Rome, you do as the Romans do.
A simple google search reveals numerous articles similar to the Miami Herald article and is portraying the DR as a racist society, that's too bad. On a personal level, I receive nothing but nice and warm feelings in Santiago and with NYC Dominicans, sometimes they treat me like royalty overthere. I understand that the LOFT will continue to make tons of cash regardless of the US Embassy post, but the country as a whole suffers, because it is just another negative article emphasizing that the DR is racist and should be avoided, which is not good for business.
On another note:
Dominicans like things in a certain type of way, the men will dress the same when they go out (clean cut, collard shirts, dress jeans, no jewelry) and women (nice heels, sexy jeans, nice blouse, and straight hair), they'll drink Johnny Walker or Miller Genuine Draft, they're not into trend setting and like things the way they are. So when in Rome, you do as the Romans do.
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I don?t agree with LOFT discriminatory practices in any way and I feel that discrimination is a big problem that needs to be talked about in Dominican society, as a Dominican I have to recognize that our society is in denial about these things.
You would think that if the press could join forces to bring down the club's popularity because of this, but unfortunately this is not the way it works in this country things like this will keep happening until the government steps in.
This is what I have been hearing about the Miami Herald:
that the editor in chief or the high executives of that newspaper are Cubans and that the Cubans have always envied of us, and that is the reason why you see so many articles on DR related stuff in that newspaper. I bet they don't write about how the Mexican government takes away the land of poor Amerindians, for example or how Amerindian women are prohibited from entering restaurants in the more Europeanized parts of Mexico because they wear the traditional clothing.
You would think that if the press could join forces to bring down the club's popularity because of this, but unfortunately this is not the way it works in this country things like this will keep happening until the government steps in.
This is what I have been hearing about the Miami Herald:
that the editor in chief or the high executives of that newspaper are Cubans and that the Cubans have always envied of us, and that is the reason why you see so many articles on DR related stuff in that newspaper. I bet they don't write about how the Mexican government takes away the land of poor Amerindians, for example or how Amerindian women are prohibited from entering restaurants in the more Europeanized parts of Mexico because they wear the traditional clothing.
These are my thoughts on that matter, if you go onto websites like Bonche and others and see nothing but light skinned people on their websites it could be for a certain reason and I'll try to point out two.
The country as a whole is majority mixed race so you'll find more brown than black.
Most of the money makers appears to be from the "lighter side" of the Dominican Republic, hence, some of the better paying jobs goes possibly goes to Dominicans with lighter complexions. Also, it appears the poorer part of the society consists of Haitians and Black Dominicans, not all of course but possibly most. So the "ability to pay" or the "want to pay" the high prices at one of these discos is out of the questions.
On a note:
Dominicans, rich & poor, know their place in society and do not cross that invisible line, the poor have their own tipicos, eateries, and stores they shop in, just the upper-class. It's two different societies and they don't intermingle, period. They dress differently and like different things, so you won't find the concho driver in Ahibar, but you'll find him down the block at oneway. You won't find the Barrio chica in Francifol, but you'll find her at Rancho Tipico. Everyone knows their place and are content about it. This is the reason posters like AZB and others stress to gringos not to take their barrio chics to nice establishments, they'll feel out-of-place and uncomfortable, you will be doing more harm than good.
Oh yeah, I am not defending Loft or any other discos in SD, just putting out there another thought on the matter.
I do not need to know my ass from my elbow in the DR society. I do not live my life based on dominican standard or necessarily an american standard. I try to live my life based on a world standard and the world standard in this situation says that what has happened is very inappropriate.
It is okay for some people to go to the DR and support/condone mediocrity and ignorance by oiling someone's ego but our government will not do that. All we are talking about is a niteclub. The embassy staff should go to other niteclubs or stay at home but a bold statement has to be made . It is obvious that things are done differently in the DR and that is okay also. The decision does not affect dominicans or non-embassy americans so it is very much in order.
Some people need to think out of their box and see that if any changes are made as a result of this action, the people that will really benefit from it will be dominicans and not americans. However if dominicans do not want things to change, then they should just continue to do as they have been doing. We have no problem with that.
Sholly
Ok, here is my opinion in this matter kidding aside.
I have for years now study Dominican behavior and a lot of the things we do in DR, is trying to copy our big brother up north the bullie known as The United States of America, so if we are discrimating dark skin people is coping the old North American tradition of "Whites Only".
I have for years now study Dominican behavior and a lot of the things we do in DR, is trying to copy our big brother up north the bullie known as The United States of America, so if we are discrimating dark skin people is coping the old North American tradition of "Whites Only".
You people are all off topic. Here's the real point, it's a private club and they can do what they want and let in who they want regardless. It's the same if i throw a party in my house, if I don't want you there, I don't want you there. So what's the difference with immigration policies? A sovereign nation can let in who they want, when they want, if they want. And Loft can do the same. They didn't want a Black guy in, fine. Maybe they want a "white" crowd, fine. Maybe it's not racism, maybe its just business and they can continue to have more patrons if they continue keeping a certain type of crowd and that's fine.
You people who are arguing about it as if it were the end of the world, but are just adding to the ridiculous nature of the event. He didn't get in, move on. I'm light skin and i've not been allowed in clubs and been harrased by cops and I haven't shed one tear about!!
And have we not considered the idea that Black Americans are at times more sensitive about racial issues, and will at times misinterpret certain things as being racist when they are not? I mean they come to the DR, and are told its a "racist" country before hand and automatically eveything becomes subject to race...jmmm
You people who are arguing about it as if it were the end of the world, but are just adding to the ridiculous nature of the event. He didn't get in, move on. I'm light skin and i've not been allowed in clubs and been harrased by cops and I haven't shed one tear about!!
And have we not considered the idea that Black Americans are at times more sensitive about racial issues, and will at times misinterpret certain things as being racist when they are not? I mean they come to the DR, and are told its a "racist" country before hand and automatically eveything becomes subject to race...jmmm
I need your address....
Mr. Lu - You are so far off base that you are not even in the ball park. I guess you have no idea about civil rights issues. I also guess that you have never experienced discrimination,
I further would go on to say that you don't know what the heck you are talking about. But what I do know is that I need your address, because Al Sharpton needs to visit you. irate:
Mr. Lu - You are so far off base that you are not even in the ball park. I guess you have no idea about civil rights issues. I also guess that you have never experienced discrimination,
I further would go on to say that you don't know what the heck you are talking about. But what I do know is that I need your address, because Al Sharpton needs to visit you. irate:
That point is well understood and accepted. If we can respect the dominican way of doing things, why should they not respect our own decision that is only binding on american embassy employees?. What are they afraid of?. There is no bullying of dominicans here. The club is free to do what it wants. Am I missing something here or is it the dominican way of thinking?. The only people that have been 'bullied' and should be complaining are the embassy officials affected.
I personally will not have a problem if the dominican embassy in america decided to tell it's employee to boycott a specific business in the US because of any reason. It is left for that business to sort/not sort itself out with the dominican embassy but I as an american would not give a f#@*.
You can blame the media if you like for making this an issue but that is not the fault of the embassy.
Sholly
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