Along the same line as Mr. Lu's post - another privilige lost!

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Mr. Lu

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......

Lambada said:
No you are not, add me to your list. I will call gringos on it when they generalise in a way which puts Dominicans down and given as how I'm equal opportunity I will call Dominicans on it also. I spotted another one



How to remove in one fell swoop part of Dominican historical culture, the indigenista literary movement for example the work of Manuel de Jes?s Galv?n Enriquillo. Enriquillo fought against Spanish oppression and was successful in resisting the Spaniards for many years until eventually Charles V signed a treaty granting the Taino freedom in exchange for laying down their arms. If this isn't relevant to Dominicans resisting oppression by whomsoever, including their own political parties like right now over the Constitution, I don't know what is. But of course it is those inherited qualities which might also make the Dominican population resist a future dictator which Golo seemed to feel we ought to have............:cheeky:

And Mr. Lu, did you see DR1 News today? There are many who do not share your cousin's indifference.

Constitutional changes "an embarrassment"
Representatives from civic and business groups have joined together in their condemnation of the decisions taken by the National Revisory Assembly during the second reading of the new Constitution, because the legislators have "cut off" several individual and collective rights, implying a step backwards from the rule of law. Citizen watchdog group Citizen Participation, along with the Herrera Industrial Association, the Federation of Industrial Associations, the Commission for the Reform and Modernization of Justice, the Citizens Forum and the Justice and Transparency Foundation all shared this opinion. Citizen Participation describes the new Constitution as "illegitimate" because it eliminated ten existing citizen rights set out in the current Constitution.
The civic group said the illegitimacy is clearly demonstrated with the elimination of rights such as the right to have an honest and transparent public administration, "which reveals the perverse intent behind this decision. Behind the elimination of collective rights such as the adequate working of the market forces, and fair competition, the interest and rights of the consumer and of those who use public goods and services, the enjoyment of the assets in the public domain such as beaches and rivers among others, are hiding shameful, unspeakable intentions."
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Lambada, I did see the news. But I am waiting for the suicide bombers and machete throwers. I am waiting for Haiti in the DR. I am waiting for that passive, chain gang mentality to no longer overrun this country. I am waiting for cops to be scared of the people in the streets. I am waiting for the military in the streets. I am waiting for anarchy and chaos.

And when this happens, when destruction comes and blows this garbage away, then we can start over again.

You can vote for me in the primary elections of 2013....

"Mr. Lu, uno que piensa como tu..."

and for my Anglo counterparts:

"Mr. Lu, the guy who works for you..."


Mr. Lu
 
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RonS

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Oct 18, 2004
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Poetic, Mr. Lu! You would get my vote if I were eligible. BTW, has the President commented on these 'reforms' or public stated that he supports them, or is he letting his party and the PRD do the dirty work?
 
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minerva_feliz

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Boycott hotels...

I have not read any fine print, so I am basing this on my understanding that beaches could be privatized by hotels to deny access from any distance from the ocean to Dominicans.

I am a foreigner, so while perhaps I don't even have the right to express such political opinions, I can say what my actions will be.

I will NOT stay in any hotel that denies beach access to Dominicans. Before I make a reservation, I will contact them and ask if locals are allowed on their beach. If they say 'no, our beach is private and they're not allowed,' they will not be getting any of my pesos/dollars and I will calmly explain why to any owner/managers are interested.

There are other hotels to stay in, and for that matter other countries to visit. I hope that someone can come up with a list of hotels that do this to circulate so that others can also avoid them.

Really, it just makes me sick. My Dominican friends and I have already been treated like trash for "trespassing" on other beaches that were previously public domain. Now that they have a license to treat Dominicans like second-hand citizens, I don't want to be a part of it just because I am a gringa with money that CAN. Maybe no one will care at the hotel about what I tell them, and I am just one person, but at least I can have a clean conscience about it.

Technically it was the government that put this into law, but the tourists are the ones who knowingly or unknowingly accept it. I'm sorry, but if you are afraid of or don't want to be around DOMINICANS and allow them to use their PUBLIC SPACES, DON'T GO TO THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC!! Go to Florida...

They might as well pass a law about how hotels have to build huge fences along the beach and around their complex, and post signs, just like at the monkey cages at the zoo, that read "Please don't feed the Dominicans"...
 
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Lambada

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People might want to read some of the Dominican blog reactions:
Estos congresistas creen que las cosas son as? de simples ?Toy Jarto! El Sentir del Pueblo Dominicano

Manuel Miranda.: ??NO A LA ROBO - REFORMA CONSTITUCIONAL DOMINICANA!!

Protesta bacana:pal congreso de Playa - www.Remolacha.net

12. ?Esa no es m? constituci?n! ?piphanie ?ph?m?re

Another creative idea - as a protest against high electric bills and unpredictable service, the residents took out their meters and displayed them as a form of pavement art in the sports centre...............
Barrio de Santiago se cans? de aguantar y desmont? los contadores de Edenorte :: CLAVE digital m?vil

minerva_feliz said:
I am a foreigner, so while perhaps I don't even have the right to express such political opinions, I can say what my actions will be.
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I hear you, Minerva, but as always there is the balance between putting tourists off the DR entirely -if they elected the hotels which allowed beach access to locals, that would be one thing, but might they just choose another country? However, as a tool to be used against Congress, that could work.

And don't worry about not having the right to express your political opinion - if that one gets voted in, then we can always start threads on a parallel subject/country/issue where we read between the lines...............;)
 
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El Tigre

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I agree with you Minverva on the boycott! I know the DR "depends" on tourism but for what??? To make politicians richer and the poor poorer? Estoy harto!!!!!! Or JJJJJJJJarto as they would say in the campo!
 
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A.Hidalgo

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I would love to hear the opinion of expats that own beach front properties. Are you for this law? Would you try to enforce it? Come on don't be shy.
 
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mountainannie

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10 liberties

Can someone please clarify a few things for me?

First // what is the translation for Toy Jarto?

Then, what are the 10 constitutional liberties that are being spoken of?

We have article 30 on the abortion issue
Then there is the issue of denying public access to the beaches
Then the issue that a citizen cannot bring a suit on the inconstituionality of a given law

Then it gets fuzzy for me...

thanks
 
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RGVgal

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A.Hidalgo said:
I would love to hear the opinion of expats that own beach front properties. Are you for this law? Would you try to enforce it? Come on don't be shy.
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I'm not an expat, but I own beach front property. I wouldn't enforce the law as I think everyone has a right to the beach. There are times where people leave garbage or attempt to come in to my backyard, but those are few and far between.

I wonder if other countries may be doing this also. When I visit Mexico and other carribean islands, I don't see any locals at the beach in front of the hotels.
 
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Golo100

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I will disappoint many people with this. But you're not being realistic. The minute people are allowed into private beaches will be the end of tourism in DR. We cannot have Boca Chicas all around our island. There are tourists who visit the island to have a safe, quiet and pleasant stay without so much noise and tigueraje. Otherwise people would not opt for all inclusive.
Does anyone believe that all-inclusive is just for economy? I believe tour operators know our country well and know that the only way they can guarantee returns is by having a safe hotel that protects the tourist all around.
Our entire island is not suitable for public beaches. How can you safeguard tourists in far away places like Luperon, Uvero Alto and yes, Punta Cana unless you have secluded locations with high security?
Someone mentioned Miami Beach. Well, you can't bring dogs, cook, have spaghetti parties, throw garbage everywhere, play loud music, and harass people on that beach. There are no lambi and oysters vendors there either.
I think people don't understand our country well and prefer to act so humanitarian that a bit of hypocrisy is palpable.
As all-inclusive fades away to high price tourism it gets even more necessary to provide safer beaches.
Now you say...well then don't come to DR. That's not realistic for a country that would starve to death without tourism. Our beaches would die depending on the local market alone. We would also destroy our beaches, no doubt about. Maintenance will disappear, like everything else. Have we been able to maintain our stadiums, swimming pools and parks? Does anyone know what we do with our outdoor facilities when built new. By the following year weeds would take over and there will be no toilets left.
How many people have taken a walk down the Juan Dolio Boulevard at night to go to some of the public bars in the area at night. It is scary. There is no illumination at all. No sidewalks. And shady characters all around. Playa Dorada is a mess lately. Where is the infrastructure and organization to support public beaches in DR?
I believe we need to be sincere and stop living in lalalalalaland. You don't like what I say because it's the truth. But you can always organize an NGO and fight private beaches all you want. The bottom line is that the minute you allow everyone in kiss the beaches and tourists goodby.
In my opinion...it will never happen.
 
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Guatiao

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Are ALL beaches being limited access to? NO! So why are people making a big deal? Private beaches help protect customers, and plus I don't want my vacation ruined by chopos and other riff-raff. I actually agree with Golo on this one, and he has stated some strong points.

If ALL beaches were private then I would have a major problem, but that is not the case.
 
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A.Hidalgo

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RGVgal said:
I'm not an expat, but I own beach front property. I wouldn't enforce the law as I think everyone has a right to the beach. There are times where people leave garbage or attempt to come in to my backyard, but those are few and far between.

I wonder if other countries may be doing this also. When I visit Mexico and other carribean islands, I don't see any locals at the beach in front of the hotels.
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I like your attitude. I'm sure if a group was tearing your beach apart you would use common sense and call in the troops, otherwise if they act civilized then live and let live. The thing is that unfortunately the DR is a country were laws are broken on a daily basis and enforcement is a dream, then again chances are if a gringo complaints about their beach being turned into a dump more likely the police will listen.
 
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A.Hidalgo

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Social pressure might force Assembly to revise text

Lets see what happens in the next few days, but public pressure seems to exist after all in the DR......maybe Mr Lu attended that beachwear protest..:cheeky:

SANTO DOMINGO. In the face of the rejection that the so-called "counter-reformation" that was approved by the Revisory Assembly of the Constitution during the second reading has received, there is movement inside the Congress to find a "legal way down" that will allow them to revoke part of the last changes that did not go over well with the population.

All this includes, according to what was learned by Diario Libre, a possible modification of the internal regulations of the Assembly that allows for rethinking on the elimination of citizen's rights that had been approved during the first reading, such as the collective and diffuse rights, of which 10 were eliminated and the prohibition of free access to the nation's beaches by citizens.
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Social pressure might force Assembly to revise text - DiarioLibre.com
 
Conchman

Conchman

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In The Bahamas, law says that all beaches are public up unto the 'high-water' mark, meaning the line where the water reaches at average high tide. Basically, it means, the beach along the water belongs to the public. Hotels and property owners who have bought 'beach front' land still have their ownership rights (with limitations of course) up until that mark.

I believe the DR government wants to enact something similar, but failed in communicating their idea.
 
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mountainannie

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yes, well not those beaches next to roads, perhaps

Guatiao said:
Are ALL beaches being limited access to? NO! So why are people making a big deal? Private beaches help protect customers, and plus I don't want my vacation ruined by chopos and other riff-raff. I actually agree with Golo on this one, and he has stated some strong points.

If ALL beaches were private then I would have a major problem, but that is not the case.
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I think that actually they ARE talking about ALL the beaches that do not now have public access... ditto lots of other places, BUT I am not a native speaker and so rely on the rest of you..

Certainly the director of the Environment is upset about this
Jaime David pide revocar prohibición de acceso a playas - DiarioLibre.com

El nuevo p?rrafo del art?culo 69 expresa lo siguiente: "Las cuencas altas de los r?os y la zona de biodiversidad end?mica, nativa y migratoria son objetos de protecci?n especial por parte de los poderes p?blicos para garantizar su gesti?n y preservaci?n como bienes fundamentales de la Naci?n. Los r?os, lagos, lagunas, playas y costas nacionales pertenecen al dominio p?blico y son de libre acceso, observ?ndose siempre el derecho a la propiedad privada. La ley regular? las condiciones, normas y servidumbres en que los particulares acceder?n al disfrute o gesti?n de dichas ?reas".
 
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