Amended Bar closing times

[snowqueen]

Tourism

If after hours bars are the only thing that keeps tourists coming back, then yes, this could be devastating. However, I like to think that most people come for the beauty of the country & it's people.

Bars in many other countries must close by 2 a.m. Has it killed businesses? No. Has it killed tourism? No. I'm really surprised how upset everyone is about this.

 

[Malibook]

I'm really surprised how upset everyone is about this.

Going to bed early is fine if it is by choice.

Taking away this choice from all people on a brief vacation is ludicrous.

Most people at the resorts don't spend any money, or extremely little, and the ones who want to head out and party the night away are some of the ones who actually help the local economy.

It is extremely wishful thinking to expect everybody will just simply go out earlier and the bars and restaurants will simply get their money earlier and people will not have to work so late.

The reality is that many people are losing their livelihood but I guess it doesn't matter since you are not one of them.:tired:

 

[macocael]

Larry and I know each and are from the same area. We both know the "rat race life" we live back in the states and wish to leave it behind. Surely we know that there should be order but not a "police state". 25 years wearing a uniform and I am about to retire. This is NOT what I wanted.

Dominican Scotty,

I know what you are saying here, believe me, but there are two things to consider: (1) this place, historically speaking, has always veered between the police state repression on the one hand and lawlessness on the other (in the sense that you are basically on your own and you live by your own rules). I dont think the current clampdown is anything more than a swing in one direction. During Leonel'sfirst administration they moved in to Sos?a to clean up the whore bars, and for awhile things were cleaned up but as anyone can see, it is business as usual these days. (2) while the attraction of this place is that you are on your own, you live by your rules, you solve your problems in your own way, it is a bit like the Wild West -- fewer rules and regs hampering you, that is all changing as development proceeds apace, the middle class grows, and the culture gets globalized. I have been watching this happen now for the past 10 years. The process is inexorable. The kind of freedom you are talking about is gradually disappearing; you need to move to Haiti!

 

[la_barbie]

Get out into the real world and look for the happy Dominican faces that are all glad about the curfew according to your opinion.

Amen to that !

Bars in Toronto are open till 4am and ppl are getting shot here left and right... makes no sense to me

 

[mountainfrog]

Gallo con Glock

... is it a matter of showing the permit and nothing more?

More or less, yes.

A handgun has to be carried concealed (which is hard on 'gallos' who like to boast with a gun on their waist).

Now your permit has to include 'the carrying' and not only possession.
It's not supposed to be loaded and the bullets are to be kept seperately.

This may habe been changed already.
'Tigueres' don't care about that very much anyhow...

m'frog

 

[mountainfrog]

24/7

Well, nightlife in hot countries starts later.
So midnight for 'last orders, please' sounds a bit harsh.

On the other hand tourists and locals who drink until the wee hours are not the main pillar of the economy.
I always wonder whether those late night drinkers (Dominicans that is) can work during the day...

It's a fact that a lot of 'balas perdidas' are fired by drunkards and the business hours for drug dealers is well after 2 a.m.

m'frog

 

[snowqueen]

Short Term vs Long Term

Going to bed early is fine if it is by choice.

Taking away this choice from all people on a brief vacation is ludicrous.

Most people at the resorts don't spend any money, or extremely little, and the ones who want to head out and party the night away are some of the ones who actually help the local economy.

It is extremely wishful thinking to expect everybody will just simply go out earlier and the bars and restaurants will simply get their money earlier and people will not have to work so late.

The reality is that many people are losing their livelihood but I guess it doesn't matter since you are not one of them.:tired:

I agaree that in the short term, there will be some lost revenue. But for the majority of bars to fail because of this is quite beyond me. I guess I am very out of touch with what happens in the middle fo the night.

For the record, we also support the local economy. Have not & will not stay in an AI.

Your comment about not caring about people losing their livlihood is uncalled for & incorrect. I happen to have friends in the bar and restaurant business. From what I understand their businesses are doing fine with the new change. I just said that I don't understand how this will force so many businesses to close.

 

[DominicanScotty]

Thanks for your suggestion

Dominican Scotty,

I know what you are saying here, believe me, but there are two things to consider: (1) this place, historically speaking, has always veered between the police state repression on the one hand and lawlessness on the other (in the sense that you are basically on your own and you live by your own rules). I dont think the current clampdown is anything more than a swing in one direction. During Leonel'sfirst administration they moved in to Sosúa to clean up the whore bars, and for awhile things were cleaned up but as anyone can see, it is business as usual these days. (2) while the attraction of this place is that you are on your own, you live by your rules, you solve your problems in your own way, it is a bit like the Wild West -- fewer rules and regs hampering you, that is all changing as development proceeds apace, the middle class grows, and the culture gets globalized. I have been watching this happen now for the past 10 years. The process is inexorable. The kind of freedom you are talking about is gradually disappearing; you need to move to Haiti!

I don't have a problem in this country. If you knew who I know you would know this.

Yes, yes, changes are indeed needed. But don't "knee jerk" the tourists right back to the AIs and somewhere else whether it is Costa Rica or Haiti *sigh*.

The problem is NOT the tourists it is the Dominican mafiosos released from prison and fugitive ex-pats imported from the abroad. Go after the thugs, the street walkers and the like not the poor slob sitting on a bar stool minding his own business trying to have a beer. We all know what the trouble is here or we should anyway.

Many people talk about how long they have been living here. 10 years, 20 years, blah blah...does that count going out of the gated community?

 

[Squat]

Most dominicans are very happy about the curfew
Most tourists come for the beach and the weather, not to get drunk in the middle of the nights...
So far, so good, I hear less gun-shot at night, I sleep better !
Life is good !

 

[El Diego]

Amen to that !

Bars in Toronto are open till 4am and ppl are getting shot here left and right... makes no sense to me

i know of a bar restaurant that stays open past 6am on wknds in NYC.
Police patrol around the restaur but they don't bother the bar. A lot of people go from a club or from pool place and go to this bar restaurant in the bronx.

 

[Malibook]

Yes, yes, changes are indeed needed. But don't "knee jerk" the tourists right back to the AIs and somewhere else whether it is Costa Rica or Haiti *sigh*.

The problem is NOT the tourists it is the Dominican mafiosos released from prison and fugitive ex-pats imported from the abroad. Go after the thugs, the street walkers and the like not the poor slob sitting on a bar stool minding his own business trying to have a beer. We all know what the trouble is here or we should anyway.

Exactly.

I am getting sick of self-righteous a$$es saying/implying crap like:
-I go to bed before 12 so what is all the fuss about?
-Don't you have anything better to do than drink all night?
-Why can't you enjoy the beautiful country and people?
-My restaurant closes before 12 anyways so what is the problem?
Yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah, bullsh!t!

For many people, every day is a Friday or Saturday, not to mention different shifts and schedules.
I sure as hell wouldn't want the last night of my brief holiday to happen to be Sunday-Thursday.
Now that would really suck.
Life is short and so are my vacations.:tired:

 

[johne]

Yes but

i know of a bar restaurant that stays open past 6am on wknds in NYC.
Police patrol around the restaur but they don't bother the bar. A lot of people go from a club or from pool place and go to this bar restaurant in the bronx.

the commute-DR to the Bronx -is a little tough.

 

[Rocky]

It's fairly obvious that many people, if not the majority, do not like how the new laws affect them.
It is also clear that the majority of DR1 members and residents of this country would love to see crime reduced.
It is also clear that many people do not believe that the implemented laws and measures will work, while some do.
It is also clear from previous experience in this country, that public pressure will eventually force the government to soften up, if not rescind the drinking hour laws.
That being said, what is there left to discuss, but how soon will changes take place, and did the Leonel "experiment" work?
It's a shame to see any of you arguing with each other over this.

 

[Malibook]

It's fairly obvious that many people, if not the majority, do not like how the new laws affect them.
It is also clear that the majority of DR1 members and residents of this country would love to see crime reduced.
It is also clear that many people do not believe that the implemented laws and measures will work, while some do.
It is also clear from previous experience in this country, that public pressure will eventually force the government to soften up, if not rescind the drinking hour laws.
That being said, what is there left to discuss, but how soon will changes take place, and did the Leonel "experiment" work?
It's a shame to see any of you arguing with each other over this.

Rocky, if you can be such a voice of reason about this then I think we should all be able to.

Perhaps I should go and meditate.

Either that or go for a few drinks.

Cheers.:classic:

 

[macocael]

Many people talk about how long they have been living here. 10 years, 20 years, blah blah...does that count going out of the gated community?

me, in a gated community! ha! perish the thought. I didnt quite understand if your response was focused on what I had to say or just generally on the pro-curfew crowd. Dont misunderstand me.

All I meant to say was that after watching these sporadic reform efforts over the past 10 years I notice that they always die down and disappear and things return to normal. But there is no doubt in my mind that the rather rough and tumble free life that drew me here back then has gradually become less so, and I think it is the result of development and other factors that I mentioned. So I facetiously suggested visiting Haiti -- which in fact is a great pleasure and does offer that free loose social milieu that I like just fine. There is no McDonalds, very little tourism, and the place, for better or worse, has resolutely clung to its unique character. I am certain you would like it.

 

[suarezn]

Exactly.

I am getting sick of self-righteous a$$es saying/implying crap like:
-I go to bed before 12 so what is all the fuss about?
-Don't you have anything better to do than drink all night?
-Why can't you enjoy the beautiful country and people?
-My restaurant closes before 12 anyways so what is the problem?
Yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah, bullsh!t!

Exactly...

These people who say this are used to these limits in their own countries. We Dominicans are used to be able to drink any time or place we feel like, so this is a big deal to us...It's kind of like the way Americans feel about the right to bear arms.

The other thing that ****es people off is that everybody knows this is not the reason for the rise in crime. Dominicans have always drunk and partied a lot at all times of the day and night and crime was never a big issue until lately.

 

[DominicanScotty]

I wasn't directing it at you

me, in a gated community! ha! perish the thought. I didnt quite understand if your response was focused on what I had to say or just generally on the pro-curfew crowd. Dont misunderstand me.

All I meant to say was that after watching these sporadic reform efforts over the past 10 years I notice that they always die down and disappear and things return to normal. But there is no doubt in my mind that the rather rough and tumble free life that drew me here back then has gradually become less so, and I think it is the result of development and other factors that I mentioned. So I facetiously suggested visiting Haiti -- which in fact is a great pleasure and does offer that free loose social milieu that I like just fine. There is no McDonalds, very little tourism, and the place, for better or worse, has resolutely clung to its unique character. I am certain you would like it.

I won't do that. If I did I would send it to you via PM. I am on the same page as you.

I just have personal friends that are really and truly hurting by this and this in effect hurts me too.

Go out at 5 am and yes, then you will see nothing but the gouls out there mostly. That really is the witching hour and some people need to be "told" to go home. But many people like to go out until 3 am and should very well do so as long as they are dancing, partying and having a good time. The ones that are lurking in the steeets? They should be rounded up and given a place to sleep for the night in holding pens.

Ibor City in Tampa has an area set aside for the partyers. I thought that places like Sosua were going to do this. Just a section of town for the partyers to do their thing. In Ibor City there is a very strong police presence visible as well as ambulence and fire fighters. They can do this here too. Everyone has to have IDs, Dominicans got to have cedulas to be in there and should surrender them to the police outpost and get them back when they leave. They try to rob someone they are dead caught red handed. It could work if it was planned right but then...we are talking about the DR right?

 

[DominicanScotty]

White Plains Road

i know of a bar restaurant that stays open past 6am on wknds in NYC.
Police patrol around the restaur but they don't bother the bar. A lot of people go from a club or from pool place and go to this bar restaurant in the bronx.

Near two tirdy tird... That's where it is. You gotta behave there, or else. You will hope the police come to rescue you.

 

[macocael]

Understood

I won't do that. If I did I would send it to you via PM. I am on the same page as you.

I just have personal friends that are really and truly hurting by this and this in effect hurts me too.

Go out at 5 am and yes, then you will see nothing but the gouls out there mostly. That really is the witching hour and some people need to be "told" to go home. But many people like to go out until 3 am and should very well do so as long as they are dancing, partying and having a good time. The ones that are lurking in the steeets? They should be rounded up and given a place to sleep for the night in holding pens.

Ibor City in Tampa has an area set aside for the partyers. I thought that places like Sosua were going to do this. Just a section of town for the partyers to do their thing. In Ibor City there is a very strong police presence visible as well as ambulence and fire fighters. They can do this here too. Everyone has to have IDs, Dominicans got to have cedulas to be in there and should surrender them to the police outpost and get them back when they leave. They try to rob someone they are dead caught red handed. It could work if it was planned right but then...we are talking about the DR right?

Yep, I am with you on that. I too have friends whose livelihood depends on their bars, right here in the Colonial Zone, and in fact my family here also has a bar/cafeteria in Sonador which is their primary means of support. And the curfew has indeed hit them. I think your idea about setting up party zones is a good one, and you are right, I think more or less that is the defacto set up in a sense. In the capital, the central section of the Colonial zone is the party zone, and then there are bars along certain main drags in the upperclass part of town. The Colmadons however pose a problem because the zoning is so haphazard that some of these spring up in the heart of residential areas and cause problems. But that could all be arranged properly if there was a will to do so. Then you have Boca Chica, Sosua, and a few other such places where there is a mix of Dominicans and more adventurous tourists -- these do not have to be shut down at midnight but simply patrolled and clearly demarcated as you suggest. Various private establishments, like the casas de chicas, AIs and others, could simply be licensed accordingly, just as they do in England (they are called after-hour establishments). All it needs is to be formally ratified and acted on -- and it would cost less than the current shotgun approach and would work better too. Hey, it wouldnt hurt to write up a few op-ed pieces. I like the idea.

 

[cobraboy]

Ibor City in Tampa has an area set aside for the partyers.

Not trying to pic nits, Scotty, but it's Ybor. It's part of the original Spanish (don't call it Cuban) sector of the city, where old cigar factories (Tampa was called the Cigar City) and other structures have been converted into a variety of retail, restaurant and entertainment venues.

There IS a very strong LE presence, and that is a bone of contention for many revelers. At one time there were even cameras everywhere with cutting-edge face recognition software looking for bad guys.

Ybor has been a marginally economic success. Very marginal. The supply of venues exceeds the demand. Church Street Station in Orlando is somewhat similar, and has a better draw because of the Mouse House.

You can probably guess I live in Tampa. Additionally, I own a restaurant/bar in the area (www.geckospub.com).

I hope to see some of y'all on my next trip to the DR, 9/12-20. Eddy, I hope the Bucs-Falcons game will be teed up on the satellite on the 17th, 'cuz we'll be there!:cheeky: :cheeky: :cheeky: