Any Mixed Marriages Here?

[Natasha]

Re: You're Wrong in at Least This Instance

Hi Keith and welcome back to the forum. Let's not waste time with Onions as he will never get it. I sense a very deeply rooted distrust for women which he disguises with criticisms of Dominican women in particular. I hope that Onions is in a relationship where trust and open communication are fundamental. And if not, I wish that he is able to find a person he can trust and love. Marriage is not based on models or axioms. Marriage can never be based on which person has his so called upper hand. Onions has a a whole lot to learn aboput the complexities of marriage. We have tried to shed some light on this very complex relationship and I hope he was able to understand it a bit better.

Regards,
Natasha

 

[Tgf]

Re: You're Wrong in at Least This Instance

Hello Natasha and Keith R.

It is nice to have both of you back and posting. I posted an addition to this thread down below. On reflection, I made the mistake of not qualifying my response with the observation that all marriages have an economic component to them. That is never a real issue. What O & C seems to want to convey is that somehow Dominicans are all better prepared mentally to exploit a failed relationship. This I question. I can see that some individuals who are raised in an environment of failed relationships grow up viewing this as a natural end result and prepare themselves mentally when (if) it happens to them. On the other hand, how is this any different from divorce in the U.S.A, Canada, or any of the European nations? Divorce is a mentally trying time in all cultures, and the ensuing fight over property makes it a very lucrative issue for divorce attorneys. Everyone, ideally, wants to get their "share of the pie" in such a case. The bruised egos and ruffled ids get intertwined with the quest for economic security. I don't think it has anything to do with nationality or ethnicity.

Either way, fairy tale marriages are just that. Anyone who tells me that in their marriage they never disagree or argue, I will do one of two things: (1) check for a pulse; or, (2) write them off as liars. Good relationships are based on commitments to work through troubled times, not bail at the first sight of tensions. I ask O&C again to tell us about his background since he seems to live vicariously through our posts about our marriages. Let's hear your story O&C. Married, divorced, never committed? Why? Why not? After all, fair is fair.

 

[Natasha]

Re: You're Wrong in at Least This Instance

Hi Tgf,

I, for one, am glad to read your observations on this board. I suppose I was, in a way, trying to convey to O & C that his observations are not unique to Dominicans. The economic compoment that you mention is universal in all marriages. You are right when you point out that that certain attitudes might be the product of the environment one grows up in. You, as our resident anthropologist, would have more knowledge about the dynamics of marriage and I, with confidence, agree with your assessments. I read some time ago that women who come from divorced parents are more likely to bail out of their own marriages at the first sign of trouble, more so than men who come from divorced parents. I think we are just now beginning to understand what divorce does to children. Last year, Time magazine did a story on this and if I recall correctly, it was titled, "What Divorce Really Does to Children". What do you think about this?

Another point that I wanted to make is that as a woman, not just a Dominican woman, I am bombarded with mixed messages from society. On the one hand men tell you how you should be and on the other WOMEN tell you how you should be. I would go crazy if I were to prescribe to these messages. The so called "axioms" which Onions is referring to are the same messages that a few years ago two very clever American women wrote about in the book "The Rules". I wonder if Onions is buying too much into this book, by the way. I did not know this book existed until about two years ago and to my surprise, I learned that it was a national best seller! American women not only bought this book in great numbers but also followed "the rules" to the t. Here are two American women telling American women that they should not accept a Saturday night date with a man if he calls her after Wednesday to arrange for the date. Here is a book which tells women to act demure, aloof and disinterested on a first date. Oh, and there's a section on how you "should be" when you have "trapped" the man and are now married. Again, this was a best seller book! Incidently, one of the women who wrote the book is now divorced. Like I said, women are bombarded constantly with mixed messages and it takes someone very secure and self-confident not to fall into these trappings. Any thoughts?

Regards,
Natasha

 

[Jess]

Re: Oh,Oh ,atacando mi nacionalidad

indio? what is that? what are the terms Dominicans use to describe their color?

 

[Onions and carrots]

Re: Oh,Oh ,atacando mi nacionalidad

Indio is of an Indian complexion or that which resembles atanned skin of varying degrees.An indio picante is a Dominican of a darker tanned complexion while negro is the Dominican of obvious African color and traits.

 

[Jim Hinsch]

Re: Case study in Dominican Relationship Axioms

Whoa! That's pretty keen perspective you have. Some of us HAVE smelt the coffee.

I laugh when I invite my friends to go on trips with me and they tell me their wife won't "let them". I do have a few buddies that don't ask, they "inform" their wives of the upcoming trip, but those are few. Does the term "in the dog house" exist in the Dominican Republic?

My girlfriend told me she doesn't like it when I don't discuss my travel plans with her before making them, but she has no respect for the whimps that ask permission. It gets to where they are afraid of making ANY decisions for "fear" of making the wrong one and ending up "in the dog house".

 

[Onions and carrots]

Who is O&C?

At last a voice of intelligence who understands what I am saying.My family has been in the Valverde,Mao region of the Dr for over 350 years. My family is in the agricultural business exporting traditonal Dr food staples. I am employed by my grandfather as his personal accountant and translator while we are in Miami. I also hedge his production by trading in the futures markets.I am 26 years old and a product of a traditional Dominican household with all its vices and virtues.I am bit machista but realize this must be tempered with kindness and compassion.I don't like domineering women and I am currently engaged with a 19 year old girl.Everything you state is true and we have our good times like our occassional disagreement. i've known her practically my whole life. I am an ultranationalist and I am not against foreigners or anything of the sort.Any more questions, ask away!

 

[Onions and carrots]

That's good! *DC*

 

[LarryB]

The U.S., Mostly White!!!

By that completely idiotic statement you have proved you have never travelled to the United States.

 

[LarryB]

Re: Case study in Dominican Relationship Axioms

I agree Natasha, He's going to spend the rest of his life trying to one-up the person he loves. He doesn't have a marriage, he has an adversarial relationship.

 

[LarryB]

When are the Dominican men going to build a nation

Instead of spending all your time trying to get the upper hand, try working together with the Dominicanas.

 

[LarryB]

A 26 year old giving advice on love and marriage?

Little boy, when it comes to love, you're still in diapers. You have no concept of the intricate workings between men and women. You should have stated your age a lot sooner. That way we wouldn't have taken your posts so seriously. Let me give you a little advice on women.

1. All women are the same.
2. Each one is a unique individual that must be treated differently.
3. #2 contradicts #1, GET USED TO IT!!

 

[Joachim]

Re: The U.S., Mostly White!!!

I have travelled extensively to the US. I did not say white I said Anglo American.

 

[LarryB]

Re: Case study in Dominican Relationship Axioms

When you say their wives won't let them, it sounds to me like their wives would prefer to have them with them. There's two sides to every coin. When you boast about your freedom, it could also mean that you don't have anyone that worries about you or doesn't care whether you're there or not.

 

[Joachim]

Re: The U.S., Mostly White!!!

My error, places like Montana, Idao are still predominatly Anglo American, not New York, Chicago, Miami, that was a typo error.

 

[Pasola Joe!]

Wait a Minute LarryB

O/C has made some good points about relationships especially regarding Dominican woman...but not all DR woman I might add.I must say he is correct in many ways about N American men being soft with their women.It is very sad and pathetic when you see a woman treating her man like a "ple-ple" (DR slang for an idiot)and ordering him about like he was a dog but on the other hand it is equally sad to see the woman in the relationship treated in the same manner.A man with no cojones definatley is looked down upon.I for one would NEVER allow anyone to make plans for me or tell me how to live and I wouldn't expect my wife who's Dominican to allow me to tell her how to live either.Just my 2cents worth.

 

[mark]

Re:Any Mixed Marriages Here?Natasha

Natasha,

That was a beautiful story!!!
I wish you and your husband the best in life.
I did not realize by me starting this thread there would be so much nonsense and so much negative talk.I am sadly disappointed.
I was also hoping for more replies regarding experiences in being married
to a Dominican, from both parties.Not to put anyone down, but to
understand each other better thus make our own relationships better.
Mark.

 

[Natasha]

Re: Who is O&C?

Well, I don't think that Tgf is agreeing with what you have been saying, but I won't put words in his mouth.

You remind me of a younger cousin of mine, Miguelito, who is a master at pretty much taking just about the most cool and collected person out of their "casillas" with his strong opinions. Of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with having strong opinions. We certainly have our share of very strong opinions displayed here on this board on a daily basis. What you fail to comprehend, however, is that unless someone died and left you in charge, your opinions hardly rise to the level of being standards.

That said, I mentioned to you on an earlier post that your words lacked any logic and intelligence. I wrote that because you very clearly stated that certain attitudes and beliefs about relationships were uniquely Dominican. In a way, I would have had more respect for your words had you not attributed them to a particular nationality.

Now that you have told us that you are engaged, let me take the liberty to share with you something that you might not realize. Each and everyone of us, yes that is you, me, and all human beings, have demons lurking inside of us. Actually, I think you know this. We ALL have a dark side that is not pretty and it is no fun admitting to it. We have the capacity to be selfish, arrogant, destructive, controlling, power seekers, immature, hostile, cruel, vindictive, defensive, and distrustful. Those who are honest with themselves know what I am talking about. It is unfortunate that these demons leap out of us most often when we are in relationships with people we claim to love. This dark side that we have has the potential to sabotage our attempts to have a trusting, peaceful and intimate relationship.

The dark side of us is always waiting to come out. It is up to us to let them come out. Letting these demons come out will certainly destroy your relationship, O&C. I can assure you [going by your opinions on relationships] that you and your fiance are bound to start your marriage on a wrong and toxic path.

I will tell you this again O&C, a healthy relationship is not based on who has the upper hand and who is "saving face". A healthy relationship does not keep score or is competitive (that would imply your partner is your adversary or enemy). A healthy relationship is truly a partnership, not a game. A healthy relationship is not based on machismo. At the same time, a healthy relationship is not so passive to the level that we feel too comfortable in it.

My advise, for what it is worth, is for you to confront your dark side. You have to confront and deal with your demons head on, preferably before you get married. You can spend a lifetime going to pre-marital counseling and that in itself will be a futile endeavor if you yourself are not able to say "Gotcha!" when your demon tries to leap out of you. In reality, you may very well be a product of a Dominican household with all its "vices and virtues". But guess what? No one gives a hoot about that. No one cares about how you grew up and what effect your family upbringing had on you. What matters is the now. What matters is that you now have the power to choose. You have the choice of whether to allow those demons to come out of you. What matters is that you are not a child anymore and supposedly you have the maturity to keep your dark side at bay. Good luck in your future marriage..now back to my paper (sigh).

Regards,
Natasha

 

[Pib]

O&C?

I?ve just returned to the board after a few days absent and it has been really hard to read all these messages and just try to sort out the usual crap from people who can?t get laid at home and are looking for a quick fix in the DR, the ones looking for the long-lost friends, the ones asking the same questions/complaining about the same hotels, you know, the usual suspects. One thread caught my eye, the one about marriages between Dominicans and people of other nationalities. The simple fact that someone like Natasha had posted many times gave me an indication of how good it could be. And then things turned sour.

O&C, our resident expert on all of the world?s questions turned the nice thread of stories of love and romance into his personal parade of posts and come backs. He says he?s 26 and acts like he knows everything there is to know on romance, marriage, Dominicans, Dominican Republic, military, economics, psychology, medicine, nuclear physics, epistemology of Taiwanese martial arts and the location of all my missing socks. I know his kind; I have a little brother like him who would argue that the earth is flat with the single purpose of dragging you into an endless discussion. And then he will laugh when you turn beet red and start suffocating. A good example of brainpower put to nonsensical ends. Many times I tried to give him a wood shampoo, but then I learned better.

It takes talent to make everyone mad, even the coolest headed people in the board. O&C has talent and even if I take anything from him with a grain of salt I still enjoy his style. My hat off to you paisano, can I send my brother to your place for a long vacation?

 

[Onions and carrots]

What does age have to do with it?

Funny and interesting post.Do I have to be old and decrepit(over the age of 40) to be taken seriously? Don't worry if you are over 40,I respect my elders.
Well gramps, I didn't concoct this myself. This is the Dominican wisdom that has been handed down thru the centuries. It works. Dominican men don't suffer the embarrassing effects of a broken heart. We are tough as nails and can survive anywhere. Even in outer space. Its sad to see weak subservient men drop at a womans whim. If you don't believe that relationships have a dominance struggle, then ask any psychologist or better still ask the resident anthropologist tgf. Its basic animal instincts present in humans. Freud said that a woman always wanted to engage in a power struggle cause their lack of you know what.