Are we truly created equal???

sjh

aka - shadley
Jan 1, 2002
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anyone who claims we are all created or born equal is walking about with his eyes closed and his ears stopped.

We SHOULD all be equal in the eyes of the Law, and we should treat all with respect, but some are born with more and some with less.
 

margaret

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Aug 9, 2006
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Are we all created equal? No, we are not. It looks good on paper though... in the Declaration of Independence. But if you believe in it or you want to act on that premise, it can be powerful.

Some are weak, some are strong. You really have no choice in who your parents are, where you were born etc. What to do about social inequality that arises from the inequality? Do the strong have responsiblity toward the weak? Give alms or a class compromise in the form of taxation and social progams? Or will the weak inherit the earth?

Or does the tune go like this?

"And now I am king,
And my queen will come at dawn
She`ll be waiting in.... Santiago town."


PS: Some of us get paid to read these posts.
 

miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
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Entonces.....

So i think no one is born equal because some are born healthier than others and others are born just more intelligent so when they are all growing up, many excel forward and others get left behind. This is the fact of life.
AZB
Had you started your thread saying that YOU knew the Haitian worker was born with a handicap ("not healthy") and/or had a learning disability ("not intelligent"), THEN I am sure MOST here would say that he was not equal, BUT only because he has a "defect".

(If I am NOT mistaken, a guy with 3 "peckers" on his forehead is NOT equal to someone with 1 where's it's supposed to be).

YOU just don't know if that Haitian guy was healthy and was smart.

He was doing such work because that's the card it was dealt to him. It's not his fault he was born in one of the poorest country in the world....It's not his fault he was born black (or white, or green).

Now, had you seen my Haitian friend (whom I mentioned here a few years ago) working in a factory in Brooklyn, you would had thought the same thing you thought about the Haitian in your story......You would had ASSumed he was not equal because of his line of work. BUUUUT:

He was a teacher in Haiti making "peanuts" and decided to come to the US and better himself. Not only does he speaks about 5 languages, but is one of the most intelligent man I know.

He studied nights to better himself and nowadays, he owns businesses in Haiti and the US and has more money than God!.

But, was he NOT equal because he worked in a factory, lived with a few other Haitians when he came to the US, was very poor and had MANY hardships?....ABSOLUTELY NOT!!. (At least NOT in my book).

It's what you make of yourself, buddy.

"If you are given lemons, make lemonade"....And if don't have any money, sell the lemonade!!.
 

A.Hidalgo

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Apr 28, 2006
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I felt sorry for him, called him over and gave him something to buy some cold drinks. It was enough to make him smile which reflected almost true happiness for the moment.

What about the dominican maids, why do you think they are paid so little? They are paid acccording to their level of understanding of their jobs. Have you noticed how stupid they are? they do everything wrong and you have to be there to corrrect them in every step of the way and yet they still manage to screw up.

Are these thoughts coming from the same person. Now lets be consistent here, you forgot to mention the Haitian guy was stupid too.....don't you think.;):ermm:
 

DrChrisHE

On Probation!
Jul 23, 2006
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Sorry Windeguy--as much as I think the US Constitution is an exquisite document, when it was written WOMEN DIDN'T COUNT AND SLAVES WERE COUNTED AS A FRACTION OF A PERSON. Plus, only land-owners could vote.

So, you need to look beyond the mere words. Maybe you don't take offense to the fact that the US Constitution says "ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL" but I do. Yes, it is the longest standing democratic constitution but it is far from perfect. One of the things that makes the US Constitution enduring is its ability to be modified to meet current thinking and rid ourselves of outdated ideas.

Btw, Einstein had a learning disability. Being born with a learning disability doesn't make someone "stupid" as this discussion indicates...it makes them "differently abled" and I'm not just being PC. Ever see the movie Rain Man? An autistic can have abilities FAR beyond the 'average' in some areas while being below average in others. Personally, I prefer Gardner's THEORY OF MULTIPLE INTELLIGENCES. For those who aren't aware of this work, I strongly suggest googling "Multiple Intelligences." Yes, some of us test in the genius range on the 'standardized tests' but are idiots when it comes to say jumping hurdles (I for one fall on my face even though I've always been athletic and competed.) As mentioned above, the musical intelligence is just one example. Our most charismatic leaders have had high 'interpersonal-intelligence.' Those of you who are parents might want to see the book: HOW YOUR CHILD IS SMART (emphasis on IS.)
 

miguel

I didn't last long...
Jul 2, 2003
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Por si no lo sabias....

If you guys keep talking about the US Constitution and Einstein (and any other issues NOT related to the topic).....tick tock, tick tock, tick tock.....The moderator will make this thread HISTORY!!.

And that......WILL be a shame!.
 

AZB

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Jan 2, 2002
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Are these thoughts coming from the same person. Now lets be consistent here, you forgot to mention the Haitian guy was stupid too.....don't you think.;):ermm:

I don't know if the haitian guy was stupid or not, he seemed like a hard worker to me. But when it comes to dominican maids. Come on, are you kidding me? I guess you naver had a dominican maid. I tell you this , they make what the quality of their work is worth, period.
AZB
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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If you guys keep talking about the US Constitution and Einstein (and any other issues NOT related to the topic).....tick tock, tick tock, tick tock.....The moderator will make this thread HISTORY!!.

And that......WILL be a shame!.

And in addition, let's stop the 'stupid' talk!
 

Lambada

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Mar 4, 2004
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I don't know if the haitian guy was stupid or not, he seemed like a hard worker to me. But when it comes to dominican maids. Come on, are you kidding me? I guess you naver had a dominican maid. I tell you this , they make what the quality of their work is worth, period.
AZB

You can't generalise - I've had what I considered 'good' and 'less good'. The good has been with us for 12 years, works on her own initiative, has built herself a block house instead of the little shack she used to have & has put 2 of her children through college. She doesn't forget things and is responsible and part of that is down to her innate abilities and part is due to my initial training when she was new.

The 'less good' was asked to heat water on the stove for washing up on a day when the water heater wasn't working. Well...........she heated it, but she never poured it into the sink to use for washing up. Why? Because in her home all washing up is done in cold water & LOTS of washing up liquid ;). So she had no concept of using hot water for washing up. My fault, I should have spelled it out step by step (first you heat, then you put in sink, then add cold, then add plates and wash & rinse).

We cannot impose our perception of what is good or bad in a maid where their previous experience has not covered what we might take for granted. It isn't being condescending. Just think if electricity was suddenly 'abolished' how many of us would know how to light a gas mantle? Only those who were camping enthusiasts or are aged over 60. That would not make those who didn't know 'stupid' it would simply mean they had never had the experience before.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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So intelligence of a person has no play in this belief? What is someone is born more smarter than the other? For this reason so many students drop off in college and the rest advance forward in their careers.
There are different types of intelligence, however lets assume for a moment that intelligence is more of the typical intelligence measured by IQ tests. In that case, genetics does influences the maximum level of intelligence a person is able to absorb and comprehend, however, whether such person reaches his/her maximum level of intelligence depends on the environment he/she grows in and the priorities embedded in such person from their childhood into early adulthood.

Obviously, there is no question that a person born with a handicap, such as Down Syndrome or retardation, such person doesn't have the same ability to absorb and understand the amount of intelligence that a person with an IQ of 130 or above would. That is obvious.

However, despite the limitations imposed by genetics in each person, whether or not such person achieves their full potential depends on their environment.

Unfortunately, most people, whether handicapped or fully healthy and able, don't achieve the maximum potential and the only blame for that is their environment.

Even though comparing a retarded individual with a mentally healthy person proves that everyone is not born equal, it is unfair to compare the achievements or lack of such that the two accomplish if we don't take into account their deficiencies. To do that without taking into account each persons limitations is the equivalent of comparing apples to oranges and leads to incorrect assumptions and/or unfounded stereotypes.

AZB said:
What about the dominican maids, why do you think they are paid so little? They are paid acccording to their level of understanding of their jobs.
Not at all. Maids are paid little due to supply and demand, there is more supply than demand, in this case.

However, smarter maids probably are paid more than not-so-smart maids, mostly because there are less smarter maids than there are not-so-smart maids.

If all Dominican maids were smart, their pay would be as low, if not a bit lower than it currently is, despite their "smartness".

Housekeeping is a blue collar job and almost all blue collar jobs are paid based on supply and demand AND by the hour, or week, or month. Unlike the jobs of the most productive people who tend to be paid based on productivity level and usually has complete discretion of their time, making their own schedules, working when they want, etc. as long as the work is done when due.

Let's not confuse the two.

AZB said:
So i think no one is born equal because some are born healthier than others and others are born just more intelligent so when they are all growing up, many excel forward and others get left behind. This is the fact of life.
That's part of the story, the environment in which a person grows and develops has much influence as well.

For example, among lower class Dominicans its quite popular for parents to discourage their kids from embracing competition. Among that class, competition is bad and should never be practiced.

Now, how can anyone be successful at anything when they have been taught from day one to suppress the competitive nature?

The answers is they can't succeed because they've been taught to be lazy, to take orders, to be dependent on others for everything.

The most competitive of the poorest are the one's that rise above poverty and become middle class and in some extraordinary cases reach the true top.

But, lack of ambition, acceptance of mediocrity, being reared with an emphasis of taking orders can only be blamed on the environment a person grows in.

This is only one of many examples.

-NALs
 

AZB

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
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Interesting opinions and some very good points.
nals, if I were only 1/2 as intelligent as you, I would call consider myself a genius.
Now back to the topic.
so if we are all created equal, then why is it that men always pay for women and pay for sex to hookers? I think in this case, men are holding the short end of the stick.hahahah
AZB
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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At Last AZB You Have Brought Us Back To The REAL WORLD!!!

I thought you had turned "GAY" or something!!
"GOD created man,the Colt 45 made them equal!!"
I will bet you that any man with terminal cancer would trade places with that haitian in a heartbeat!!!
Other than that,all else being equal,It is much better to be rich!
Someone once said; "I been rich,and I been poor, rich is better!
You think that haitian is "Poor but Happy"???? You are out of touch with reality!
The one thing this post has done,is give "DR1ers" a chance to fall all over themselves in a rush to "Political Correctnes"! I am becoming a diabetic reading all your "Sweet Nonsense?! Please,say what you really feel,not what you think will make you sound more alteristic to everyone else!
I told my son many years ago,"Money" has no intrinsic value!" What money gives you is the opportunity to make choices in your life. If you have money you can do the things you love,and help the ones you love! When you don't have money,life tells you what you can,or must do,inorder to survive!

Evey "Study" I have ever seen,says that "Rich" people,are "happier" than "poor" people!!
That "Poor But Happy" bull$hit was invented by the poor,to justify there position in life!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

Bronxboy

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2007
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Also,

Sometimes it is not what you have but who you know that matters!!!!
 

andrewc52002

New member
Feb 6, 2007
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We are not created equal. That's it, what can we do ? Some are intelligent, some are *****. The ideal society we hope for, is one where the oportunities are equal, with no discrimination.
 
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Ricardo900

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Jul 12, 2004
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thread Hijack!!!

"GOD created man,the Colt 45 made them equal!!"

The "Colt 45" didn't make them equal it was "Sam Colt" that did it, since the Colt .45 wasn't created until at least 10 years after his death. If you are going to quote something get it right!!

Back to the topic!!!!!
"God Created Ricardo, Ricardo's Colt Python made him equal":laugh:
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRicardo900
 
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NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Sometimes it is not what you have but who you know that matters!!!!
And who you know depends on the environment and social circles you find yourself in and often times, acceptance or exclusion in social circles depends on what you have (ie. intelligence, material things, culture, etc). This is true in all social circles, whether they are upper or lower class.

-NALs
 

Bronxboy

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2007
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And who you know depends on the environment and social circles you find yourself in and often times, acceptance or exclusion in social circles depends on what you have (ie. intelligence, material things, culture, etc). This is true in all social circles, whether they are upper or lower class.

-NALs

Excellent observation;)
 
Sep 19, 2005
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every moment is a snapshot of life....today The Hatian was hammering away, who knows what he will be doing in one year.

he could turn in to a sankie and hit the jackpot and be driving past you in his Range Rover in two years.....while you pour EDTA into your car battery!


life is dynamic.

last year one of the wealthiets men in the world died in sosua in a helicopter crash....he is worse off than the Hatian right now...

are we born equal.?????..

to the extent that all of us who were healthy when born are equal....from that moment on...the equality has its own life.....and has a million determining factors.

bob
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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The nature vs nurture debate is an old one.
AZB's question referred to being born equal or not.

Again, for those that missed it .. I'm going to delete your post if you call others 'stupid'.

(Lambada, I have no problem with what you said as you may understand)