Banco Popular ATM fraud in Sosua

[Stephen]

Widespread

Obviously, and I don't understand why the DR expat residents haven't seen that this is a WIDESPREAD problem that happens EVERY day EVERYWHERE here. PEOPLE ARE LOSING MONEY EVERYDAY AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, unless you account is from outside the country where they will give you the money back. ANYONE that keeps any substantial amount of money in ANY DR bank is ABSOLUTELY NUTS. Maybe I just have a lot more contact with "Dominicans".

WHAT SOMEONE SHOULD DO, is get a contact with someone higher up in the bank and find out their phone number and then have EVERYONE that has been posting on this thread and OTHERS to call and complain to ONE PERSON. Maybe something will get done.

 

[miguel]

I have an idea!!

On April 10, I went to the Banco Popular in Sosua, DR to use the ATM. A lady there told me that the old machine did not work. I should use the new machine. I withdrew 5000 pesos. When I checked my account on Monday, I discovered that there had been 5 more withdrawals, totaling 55,000 pesos, which I did not make. The withdrawals were made in Puerto Plata and Santo Domingo. I had not been out of Sosua and I still have my ATM card. I called my bank and had the card cancelled. I went the Banco Popular and was told that it is not their problem. They said that I should contact my bank. I called my bank and they told me that they would file a fraud claim, but I must make a report to the local police and provide them with the report or a report number. The police in Sosua refused to make a report. I returned to Banco Popular and noticed the there was a space in the wall next to the new machine that was wide enough to put your arm through from outside the bank. The phone wire to the machine was connected just below the hole within reach for someone outside the bank to tap into the wire. After taking photos of the gaping hole next to the ATM machine, I returned with the police who had, up until then refused to make the report I need to get refunded by my bank. The employee in charge at the bank said that I should write them a letter so that they could investigate themselves. As they are denying any responsibility whatsoever, despite the access hole in plain view, they obviously have no intentions of admitting anything, and the police refuse to take a report, saying that it?s the bank?s decision on how to proceed. The police also say that since the thieves did not steal my ATM card, there was no theft. Are they so dumb that they have never heard of electronic theft? I am out 55,000 pesos and neither Banco Popular nor the Sosua police are concerned. Be weary of the Banco Popular?s ATM machines and don?t expect any help from the Sosua police.
If anyone has any suggestions as to how to resolve my problem, it would be greatly appreciated.
Anyone who would like copies of the photos of the ATM with the access hole allowing to connect the controlling telephone line, you need only PM me and I will e-mail them to you.
Thank you, Al.

Did you ask the bank why is it that 55,000 was withdrawn from your account in 5 different transations but THEY have a withdrawl limit of 5,000 per transattion(well at least my bank has a 5,000 pesos limit, per day when using the ATM machine)?. If they only used it 5 times, that means that at a certain point they withdrew more than the 5,000 limit.

 

[trina]

We have a special account set up to enable my husband to send money to his family in the DR. Our cousin has the bank card to it, and once used it at Banco Popular in Sosua. The money didn't come out the first time, and he went into the bank to try and retrieve it. Banco Popular said they couldn't help him, and that the account was not charged. He went to another bank machine and withdrew the money, thinking all was well. I saw the double charge on the account, and asked him what happened. He told us, and this guy is the most trustworthy man we know, so we immediately believed him and phoned my bank. Of course, now we have to lie to my bank (maybe we can be cellmates, Jane!), I had to do it over the phone (because I knew they'd see LIAR written all over my face if I did it in person) and psyche myself up for it. I told them what happened, that "my husband" took his card to Banco Popular, and the machine didn't give him the cash, he tried to get it from the bank, to no avail, but we got charged for it. They put a trace on it, and we actually did finally get the money back, about 3 months later. And I know that's not due to the incompetancy of my bank, I know they were trying hard, but Banco Popular was not cooperating with them. Our cousin hasn't gone back to Banco Popular since, thank God now that I hear this...I'll make sure he never will!

 

[Danny W]

other banks in Sosua?

What alternatives are there in Sosua? Anyone have good things about a bank in the DR? - D

 

[GirlieGirl]

I don't understand that last part... How can you get the imprint or electronic swipe record? Is it the little paper that you need to sign after a credit card operation? What do you mean by "all these locations"? Could you give more detailled information please? I wish to use my VISA card there but I heard that you need to be very careful with it as well.

No problem. Based on my information from my family and my rule book from my card service provider (I have a merchant terminal and accept Mastercard and Visa at my business in Cabarete). An Imprint or an Electronic Swipe are the only two sufficient forms of proof that a card was in the presence of the vendor/bank at that time. An electronic swipe is when the card is scanned in the terminal by swiping it or scanned in the atm when placed in and given an electronic code an "electronic imprint" so to speak - a manual imprint is when your barcode is messed up or something and the vendor takes an imprint of your credit card (you know the old slips they used to have before the printers) or a photocopy of your credit card. Since the bank does not have either of these because you did not do it and you had the card in your posession then they do not have sufficient proof.

When I said "many locations" I meant all the atm locations around the country that the card was supposably used at!

 

[GirlieGirl]

What alternatives are there in Sosua? Anyone have good things about a bank in the DR? - D

I NEVER have a problem with Scotia Bank or Progreso!

 

[xiv]

No problem. Based on my information from my family and my rule book from my card service provider (I have a merchant terminal and accept Mastercard and Visa at my business in Cabarete). An Imprint or an Electronic Swipe are the only two sufficient forms of proof that a card was in the presence of the vendor/bank at that time. An electronic swipe is when the card is scanned in the terminal by swiping it or scanned in the atm when placed in and given an electronic code an "electronic imprint" so to speak - a manual imprint is when your barcode is messed up or something and the vendor takes an imprint of your credit card (you know the old slips they used to have before the printers) or a photocopy of your credit card. Since the bank does not have either of these because you did not do it and you had the card in your posession then they do not have sufficient proof.

When I said "many locations" I meant all the atm locations around the country that the card was supposably used at!

Thanks for the explanation... I had an additional question.. I heard (or should I say read?) people complaining that their card was swiped (or imprinted) and that the vendor told them that it didn't work so they had to pay cash, but later realized it was put on their VISA bill anyway. I guess that without the little paper you need to sign there's also not sufficient proof for the transaction. Is that really so? Is there anything you can do to avoid such a situation? (i guess it would be possible for them to look at your signature on your card and then try to put it themselves on that paper). Maybe I got paranoid reading all these crazy posts around here :squareeye

 

[miguel]

Same question for the original poster!

Did you ask the bank why is it that 55,000 was withdrawn from your account in 5 different transations but THEY have a withdrawl limit of 5,000 per transattion(well at least my bank has a 5,000 pesos limit, per day when using the ATM machine)?. If they only used it 5 times, that means that at a certain point they withdrew more than the 5,000 limit.

I just want to know what the bank said to you after you asked the question that I am asking you?. It would be very helpful.

 

[AlfromTexas]

I just want to know what the bank said to you after you asked the question that I am asking you?. It would be very helpful.

Banks have different limits for different accounts. I have a $500 per day limit at my bank. Banco Popular in Sosua has limited me to 5000 pesos per transaction.
On of the withdrawals that I did not make was for 20,000 pesos.

Al

 

[AlfromTexas]

Several of you suggested that I see an attorney. I went to see Guido Perdomo yesterday. He told me that he does not handle this type of case and suggested that I contact Namibia Ciriaco, another local attorney. I spoke with her this morning. She took my information and said she would pursue the matter with the police. I am to contact her regarding the results on Monday. Thing are looking positive at this point.
Thanks to you all for you suggestions and comments.

Al

 

[miguel]

Banks have different limits for different accounts. I have a $500 per day limit at my bank. Banco Popular in Sosua has limited me to 5000 pesos per transaction.
On of the withdrawals that I did not make was for 20,000 pesos.

Al

Ok Al, but what is their explanation for having someone withdawl 20,000 when the limit is only 5,000?.

 

[Stephen]

I am not answering for Al

Ok Al, but what is their explanation for having someone withdawl 20,000 when the limit is only 5,000?.

..........but they won't have an answer. It happens all the time and they just say there is nothing they can do. Or they will send it to their "claims" department where it will die a slow death.......... YOU WILL NEVER GET IT RESOLVED!

 

[AlfromTexas]

Ok Al, but what is their explanation for having someone withdawl 20,000 when the limit is only 5,000?.

I don't know what the limit is where the 20,000 was withdrawn. I don't even know where it is. It did not exceed my bank limit.

Al

 

[miguel]

I understand but

I don't know what the limit is where the 20,000 was withdrawn. I don't even know where it is. It did not exceed my bank limit.

Al

I do understand but I believe, and I can be wrong, that all ATM machines would only allow a 5,000 withdrawal. Anyways, I wish you good luck and I hope that something like that never happen to me because I would raise HELLLLL.

 

[Juan_Lopez]

Fwiw-hth

FWIW-HTH:
I withdraw $$$ from my bank account (checking) in Miami
with totals over RD$20,000 per day on a regular basis
from 1 Popular ATM machine when the exchange rate permits.
I do have to make the total withdrawal in 4 transactions
during one banking session of 5,000 per transaction.

Popular and others honor my home banks daily withdrawal
limit of $500. Now this may only be true with Checking/Debit
accounts and could be different for Credit Cards?

I also have a Popular Account and on that I am limited
to RD$ 5,000 per day.

FROM: Temple Of The Screaming Electron...............
A new way of obtaining PIN numbers has surfaced recently, and has not yet been picked up on by the ATM Security people. This involves using three or four mini-mike/transmitters, shaped like bolt heads. Basically, the four "Bolt-heads" are placed on each corner of the
ATM keypad so that they look like they hold the keypad down. Each bolt-head is transmitting on a slightly different frequency.
Each receiver is then fed into a seperate input (usally one pin on a parallel port) an decoded into discrete audio waveforms. The audio waveforms are then processed and compared to a base (i.e. the person doing this would initially press each key on the keypad in sequence several time). This makes it very simple to decode keypress sounds into numbers, as each switch will have a SLIGHTLY different sound than any other. Even an 8088 at 4.77 MHZ can process this data if it is stored first, then processed later.

Another, less known and more sophisticated method, is the use of a magnetic pickup coil to pick up the signal from the electronics inside the ATM. This requires some fairly intense DSP (Digital signal processing). While this sounds expensive or technical, it is actually fairly simple. The most common piece of equipment used is a SoundBlaster Pro ? card. This card is an often overlooked piece of hacking/phreaking equipment. (Can also be used for fax interception, satelite pic decoding, touch tone decoder, telcom operator tones, and MUCH more. ask about more info...) Using a magnetic pickup allows decoding both the card number, and the PIN. Card Readers/Writers are available starting at about $125. Note that while some cards use DES encrytion schemes, a large enough pool of data (real card numbers and encrypted equivelant) makes it possible to simulate the encoding scheme. ..........

 

[Tor]

Banco Popular in Sosua has an withdraval limit of rd 5.000,- per transaction (not per day) That's why i changed to Banco Progreso wich have a transaction limit on rd 20.000,- I stayed in Sosua for 6 months this winter, and had no problems with the Atm's. Newer had any problems before when i used Banco popular either.

 

[PICHARDO]

I'll give you a solution to your problems when it comes to security using your cards in Dominican ATMs:

Some US banks issue credit cards that function just as a credit card would with the only difference that you can load only what you want to expend on them via the old internet(128bit security on IE needed) go do your thing and don't risk having your bank account exposed to the criminal element affecting most institutions there.

Wachovia bank offers the Visa Buxx which main focus is to teach credit responsibilities to minors so they can be ready for the real world finances come the time. Also you can use the prepaid cards available in the market today but the monthly charges don't make it as attractive as the Wachovia offer for which you pay only once when you get the card.

Another way to provide for security it's to use your debit card on a PIN access and use only, this can be arranged by your card issuer with relatively ease, that will in turn required that you enter your security PIN every time you use the card therefore making it impossible for a crook to use your card information without the keys to drive so to speak, Visa offers a service for certain Visa issued Bank Cards that allow you to have a new number for every time you need to make an online transaction therefore rendering the temporary card # issued to you useless once the transaction is done, also there's the new smart cards which encrypt the data of the card and doesn't allow the merchants reader to decrypt it but allows the Credit Card Processor Company to verify your account and funds and credit the merchant all without giving any information to the merchant's terminal other than your name to be show in the receipt and the last 4 numbers of your credit card, therefore rendering the scammers mag readers useless for now until the find a way to beat as they always seem to manage to do so anyway.

 

[xiv]

More simpel solution...

I'll give you a solution to your problems when it comes to security using your cards in Dominican ATMs:

I guess these solutions are not applicable in all banks.. I guess the only way to avoid massive losses is to put only the amount you wish to spend on your holiday on a separate account and make sure there's no credit line on it :cheeky: If something happens, then you'd lose only the amount you put on this account and not more.

 

[Stephen]

Fyi Only

I just happened to be looking at the Consular Info Sheet for the DR today and the following appears:

Visitors should limit their use of personal credit cards due to credit card fraud and may wish to consider coordinating their trip with their credit card company so that only hotel bills or other specified expenses may be charged. Credit cards should never leave the sight of the cardholder in order to prevent the card's information from being copied down for illegal use. It is advisable to pay close attention to credit card bills following time spent in the Dominican Republic .

Automated Teller Machines (ATM's) are present throughout Santo Domingo and other major cities. However, as with credit cards, the use of ATM's should be minimized as a means of avoiding theft or misuse. One local scheme involves sticking photographic film or pieces of paper in the card feeder of the ATM so that an inserted card becomes jammed. Once the card owner has concluded the card is irretrievable, the thieves extract both the jamming material and the card, which they then use.


I had already mentioned that this has happened to many people I know in POP previously.

 

[AlfromTexas]

On April 10, I went to the Banco Popular in Sosua, DR to use the ATM. A lady there told me that the old machine did not work. I should use the new machine. I withdrew 5000 pesos. When I checked my account on Monday, I discovered that there had been 5 more withdrawals, totaling 55,000 pesos, which I did not make. The withdrawals were made in Puerto Plata and Santo Domingo. I had not been out of Sosua and I still have my ATM card. I called my bank and had the card cancelled. I went the Banco Popular and was told that it is not their problem. They said that I should contact my bank. I called my bank and they told me that they would file a fraud claim, but I must make a report to the local police and provide them with the report or a report number. The police in Sosua refused to make a report. I returned to Banco Popular and noticed the there was a space in the wall next to the new machine that was wide enough to put your arm through from outside the bank. The phone wire to the machine was connected just below the hole within reach for someone outside the bank to tap into the wire. After taking photos of the gaping hole next to the ATM machine, I returned with the police who had, up until then refused to make the report I need to get refunded by my bank. The employee in charge at the bank said that I should write them a letter so that they could investigate themselves. As they are denying any responsibility whatsoever, despite the access hole in plain view, they obviously have no intentions of admitting anything, and the police refuse to take a report, saying that it?s the bank?s decision on how to proceed. The police also say that since the thieves did not steal my ATM card, there was no theft. Are they so dumb that they have never heard of electronic theft? I am out 55,000 pesos and neither Banco Popular nor the Sosua police are concerned. Be weary of the Banco Popular?s ATM machines and don?t expect any help from the Sosua police.
If anyone has any suggestions as to how to resolve my problem, it would be greatly appreciated.
Anyone who would like copies of the photos of the ATM with the access hole allowing to connect the controlling telephone line, you need only PM me and I will e-mail them to you.
Thank you, Al.

Latest status:
I spoke with the attorney Namibia Ciriaco again Monday. She referred me to another attorney, Vladimir Cespedes. I met with him Monday afternoon. Within a half an hour he had a police report in his hand. He said that he had to take it to Puerto Plata to register it and for a fee of $200 US, in advance, I can pick it up today. I paid the $200 and I am waiting for the next move.

Al