Makes you wonder what's coming next. Do we think the pharma bros are going to give up so fast? They and their rain makers are banking on this.
- Thread starter william webster
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Bio-Ethical Questions
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Interesting. Hyper-dosing on unprecedented genetic vaccines. Makes you wonder what's coming down the human DNA pike at this rate. Remember the movie where a "scientist" was playing with extrahuman Genetic material? Didn't work out so well for him. Bzzzzzzzz
Omicron the last? But wait, there is more, no how much would you pay?
www.theatlantic.com
Even before Omicron hit the United States in full force, most of our bodies had already wised up to SARS-CoV-2’s insidious spike—through infection, injection, or both. By the end of October 2021, some 86.2 percent of American immune systems may have glimpsed the virus’s most infamous protein, according to one estimate; now, as Omicron adds roughly 800,000 known cases to the national roster each day, the cohort of spike-zero Americans, the truly immunologically naive, is shrinking fast. Virginia Pitzer, an epidemiologist at Yale’s School of Public Health and one of the scientists who arrived at the 86.2 percent estimate, has a guess for what fraction of the U.S. population will have had some experience with the spike protein when the Omicron wave subsides: 90 to 95 percent.
The close of Omicron’s crush, then, should bring the country one step closer to hitting a COVID equilibrium in which SARS-CoV-2’s still around, but disrupting our lives far less. In the most optimistic view of our future, this surge could be seen as a turning point in the country’s population-level protection. Omicron’s reach could be so comprehensive that, as some have forecasted, this wave ends up being the pandemic’s last.
Read: The worst of the Omicron wave could still be coming
But there is reason to believe that this ultra-sunny forecast won’t come to pass. “This wave will not be the last,” Shane Crotty, of the La Jolla Institute of Immunology, told me. “There are not many things that I am willing to be pretty confident about. But that’s one of them.” A new antibody-dodging variant, for one, could still show up to clobber us. And nearly everyone having some form of spike in their past isn’t as protective as it might sound. In a few months’ time, American immune systems will be better acquainted with SARS-CoV-2’s spike than they’ve ever been. But 90 to 95 percent of people exposed doesn’t translate to 90 to 95 percent protected from ever getting infected or sick again; more immune doesn’t have to mean immune enough. By the time the country exits this wave, each of our bodies will be in radically different immunological spots—some stronger, some weaker, some fresher, some staler. Chart that out by demography and geography, and the defensive matrix only gets more complex: Certain communities will have built up higher anti-COVID walls than others, which will remain relatively vulnerable. The malleability of the virus and the United States’ patchwork approach to combatting it has always meant that COVID would spread unevenly. Now the sums of those decisions will be reflected by our immunity. They’ll dictate how our next tussle with the virus unfolds—and who may have to bear the brunt of it.
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The above patchwork approach applies not to my home country , but the world. It is like trying to stop a tidal wave. Impossible.
Will Omicron Leave Most of Us Immune?
The variant is spreading widely, but won’t necessarily give us strong protection from new infections.
www.theatlantic.com
The close of Omicron’s crush, then, should bring the country one step closer to hitting a COVID equilibrium in which SARS-CoV-2’s still around, but disrupting our lives far less. In the most optimistic view of our future, this surge could be seen as a turning point in the country’s population-level protection. Omicron’s reach could be so comprehensive that, as some have forecasted, this wave ends up being the pandemic’s last.
Read: The worst of the Omicron wave could still be coming
But there is reason to believe that this ultra-sunny forecast won’t come to pass. “This wave will not be the last,” Shane Crotty, of the La Jolla Institute of Immunology, told me. “There are not many things that I am willing to be pretty confident about. But that’s one of them.” A new antibody-dodging variant, for one, could still show up to clobber us. And nearly everyone having some form of spike in their past isn’t as protective as it might sound. In a few months’ time, American immune systems will be better acquainted with SARS-CoV-2’s spike than they’ve ever been. But 90 to 95 percent of people exposed doesn’t translate to 90 to 95 percent protected from ever getting infected or sick again; more immune doesn’t have to mean immune enough. By the time the country exits this wave, each of our bodies will be in radically different immunological spots—some stronger, some weaker, some fresher, some staler. Chart that out by demography and geography, and the defensive matrix only gets more complex: Certain communities will have built up higher anti-COVID walls than others, which will remain relatively vulnerable. The malleability of the virus and the United States’ patchwork approach to combatting it has always meant that COVID would spread unevenly. Now the sums of those decisions will be reflected by our immunity. They’ll dictate how our next tussle with the virus unfolds—and who may have to bear the brunt of it.
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The above patchwork approach applies not to my home country , but the world. It is like trying to stop a tidal wave. Impossible.
Countries like the UK already practise a more subtle form of triage known as god lists. The doctors decide who is eligible for a transplant and their ranking on the list. A heavy smoker is lower on the list for a lung transplant than a non smoker. That’s just one example. Heart transplants are another. Healthy people are higher on the list. Basically the lists dictate who lives and who dies based on the resources available.
All hospitals certified to handle mass casualty emergencies include triage as part of their certification. Physicians are uncomfortable playing god but the triage standard operating procedures allow them to do so. It’s not a single person call. It’s a team decision. A wartime application developed to save soldiers lives now applied to civilian situations. Not a position I would like to be in but one physicians have to be in when situations warrant triage.
I’ve participated in two mock environmental disasters involving hospitals. It was an eye opener.
A kind of covert triage is happening in Canadian hospitals now WW. Since the pandemic started, an estimated 20,000 Canadians requiring lifesaving surgery have died because of Covid patients swamping their hospital systems. The government has thrown more money at the problem but people are still dying waiting for surgeries. One province is now paying to send 300 patients requiring spinal surgery to a US hospital across the border.
Windy... you're talking HUGE money - given the cost of the US health system.
The various provinces actually fly sick people home from FLA to avoid the exorbitant costs.
Since I wrote - I see EcoMan has added a wrinkle to it...... it shows the desperation and crowded hospitals
Bill. Current Health Canada stats confirm what your saying. Their stats show that the majority of Canadians using US medical services tend to be those living near the border who cross to get diagnostic and imaging services. Rarely do they cross for surgeries. Some US citizens will cross to get services in Canada because they are less expensive and they get a break on the health plans. A lot of the US citizens who cross get cheaper drugs in Canada. Insulin, for example, is 10 times more expensive in the US than Canada.
The province paying to send their citizens to a US hospital near their border is a fire fighting measure, not the norm. A Covid chess game.
My wife's uncle was flown back to ON by the province from FLA....
They wouldn't pay for his care in Naples
They wouldn't pay for his care in Naples
I have a $100,000 medivac clause in my federal retiree health insurance. In a worst case scenario, a flight medivac service based in Montreal will pick me up in the DR and fly me home for treatment. If I’m able to fly on my own, they will provide a nursing assistant and cover flight costs. Less to worry about when I’m risking life and limb driving in the DR. 😆
Somebody here referred to this so-called modern version of the Hippocratic Oath as outdated and irrelevant.
Hah.
That is about the kindest, gentlest thing it could be called.
I wonder if Chico Bill might elaborate on the origin of this "version".
Honestly?
It sounds a little sketchy to me.
By the way...
For anyone looking for the most updated and modernized "oath" signed onto by a majority of physicians around the world...
It is now referred to as The Physician's Pledge
Check out the 2017 WMA update to the Declaration of Geneva that itself was an update to the Hippocratic Oath.
This pledge contains...
No politics.
No religion.
As it should not.
The Physician’s Pledge
AS A MEMBER OF THE MEDICAL PROFESSION:
I SOLEMNLY PLEDGE to dedicate my life to the service of humanity;
THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF MY PATIENT will be my first consideration;
I WILL RESPECT the autonomy and dignity of my patient;
I WILL MAINTAIN the utmost respect for human life;
I WILL NOT PERMIT considerations of age, disease or disability, creed, ethnic origin, gender, nationality, political affiliation, race, sexual orientation, social standing or any other factor to intervene between my duty and my patient;
I WILL RESPECT the secrets that are confided in me, even after the patient has died;
I WILL PRACTISE my profession with conscience and dignity and in accordance with good medical practice;
I WILL FOSTER the honour and noble traditions of the medical profession;
I WILL GIVE to my teachers, colleagues, and students the respect and gratitude that is their due;
I WILL SHARE my medical knowledge for the benefit of the patient and the advancement of healthcare;
I WILL ATTEND TO my own health, well-being, and abilities in order to provide care of the highest standard;
I WILL NOT USE my medical knowledge to violate human rights and civil liberties, even under threat;
I MAKE THESE PROMISES solemnly, freely, and upon my honour.
AS A MEMBER OF THE MEDICAL PROFESSION:
I SOLEMNLY PLEDGE to dedicate my life to the service of humanity;
THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF MY PATIENT will be my first consideration;
I WILL RESPECT the autonomy and dignity of my patient;
I WILL MAINTAIN the utmost respect for human life;
I WILL NOT PERMIT considerations of age, disease or disability, creed, ethnic origin, gender, nationality, political affiliation, race, sexual orientation, social standing or any other factor to intervene between my duty and my patient;
I WILL RESPECT the secrets that are confided in me, even after the patient has died;
I WILL PRACTISE my profession with conscience and dignity and in accordance with good medical practice;
I WILL FOSTER the honour and noble traditions of the medical profession;
I WILL GIVE to my teachers, colleagues, and students the respect and gratitude that is their due;
I WILL SHARE my medical knowledge for the benefit of the patient and the advancement of healthcare;
I WILL ATTEND TO my own health, well-being, and abilities in order to provide care of the highest standard;
I WILL NOT USE my medical knowledge to violate human rights and civil liberties, even under threat;
I MAKE THESE PROMISES solemnly, freely, and upon my honour.
Since the above is not used, it is a moot point.
Carry on with prioritizing the vaxed vs unvaxed. A very slippery slope indeed.
The above quote is copied from the o.p. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pandemic-covid-vaccine-triage-omicron-1.6319844)
If I am an emergency room physician and two people present in my emergency department.
Both are experiencing respiratory difficulty.
One is vaxxed and the other is not.
I have access to only only one ventilator.
I choose to put the vaxxed patient on the ventilator.
Could it not be argued that, based on historical statistical trends, my vaxxed patient has a better chance of survival than does my unvaxxed patient...
That the decision taken to de-prioritize the unvaxxed was not a punishment or consequence of his/her choice to not vax but rather a simple reality that the vaxxed had a better chance of survival and thus had more years of life ahead of them?
Actually the vaxed patient would probably not need the ventilator so the more prudent move would to put the unvaxed on the ventilator to try and save both.
Here's a beauty
www.aol.com
Man denied heart transplant because he won’t get vaccinated against COVID
A man at death’s door has been denied a heart transplant because he refuses to get vaccinated against COVID-19.
www.aol.com
Which tactic of yours is this? Or is this just to keep SKY and Zoom revelling in their model?Here's a beauty
Man denied heart transplant because he won’t get vaccinated against COVID
A man at death’s door has been denied a heart transplant because he refuses to get vaccinated against COVID-19.
Just an FYI, Hijo.... keeping you up to speed
Classic, just classic.... more to come , for sure
Classic, just classic.... more to come , for sure
You know i think of you as a rich uncle that may some day loan me a fortune but what I see you doing is posting controversy and basically telling the forum to "have at it". Entertain me and let's hear your side of the ethics question. How do you feel about the guy denied of the heart transplant? Do you feel vaxxed should be triaged first? Love ya W²!
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