Yes he did more than just mention the massacre, it had quite a long filmed spot. Yes he did speak about the aid from the Rep.Dom. to Haiti stating that they were first country to rush to help after the earthquake. I don't know Dr Gates other works but in this programme I thought he tried to be informative and except when talking about the "great" powers pretty free from adverse criticism.
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Black in Latin America Haiti & the Dominican Republic: An Island Divided
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Some truths, some half truths
I guess he didn't noticed the statues and busts of Gregorio Luper?n, heck, even Jos? Francisco Pe?a G?mez has busts of him throughout the country and he was of pure Haitian ancestry! And that's the tip of the iceberg.
I think he address some of this instances of "changing" features in the statues. Now I have lived in DR for 3 yrs, and I have seen some of these statues and I can tell you they do not look like the actual descriptions of them.
I have not been to that particulat slave museum but as you typed it all I could think was, why don't they have any of the images of the dressed heads of state, why just the one of the man in shackles?
As a black man living in the DR, speaking a great spanish, I have often been confused as a Haitain resident or immigrant and been subjected to some harsh words and actions. then upon finding out Im American/Trinidadian they say "oh i thought you were Haitian" as if it justifies the shyt they said or did.
I do feel he could have gone further in many many many ways!
Some of his views are baised and he is making no attempts to hide the pride in being in the first Black run republic of the new world. Most people don't even know that was possible, and its 2011! SO much is not taught to us. Growing up, even amongst other caribbean descendants, the haitian kids had it tough, speaking with an accent far different and us saying things like the country is poor. I never heard any of the good things until speaking to and seeing for myself. They have so many RICH ppl and places there, so much rich history and the first to do what we have never been able to do in the the USA
I guess he didn't noticed the statues and busts of Gregorio Luper?n, heck, even Jos? Francisco Pe?a G?mez has busts of him throughout the country and he was of pure Haitian ancestry! And that's the tip of the iceberg.
I think he address some of this instances of "changing" features in the statues. Now I have lived in DR for 3 yrs, and I have seen some of these statues and I can tell you they do not look like the actual descriptions of them.
I have not been to that particulat slave museum but as you typed it all I could think was, why don't they have any of the images of the dressed heads of state, why just the one of the man in shackles?
As a black man living in the DR, speaking a great spanish, I have often been confused as a Haitain resident or immigrant and been subjected to some harsh words and actions. then upon finding out Im American/Trinidadian they say "oh i thought you were Haitian" as if it justifies the shyt they said or did.
I do feel he could have gone further in many many many ways!
Some of his views are baised and he is making no attempts to hide the pride in being in the first Black run republic of the new world. Most people don't even know that was possible, and its 2011! SO much is not taught to us. Growing up, even amongst other caribbean descendants, the haitian kids had it tough, speaking with an accent far different and us saying things like the country is poor. I never heard any of the good things until speaking to and seeing for myself. They have so many RICH ppl and places there, so much rich history and the first to do what we have never been able to do in the the USA
You point out what many that understand Dominican culture have said all along - the animosity many Dominicans have for Haitians is not racially motivated but nationalistic. If it weren't the case they would treat you the same as the Haitians based on your color.
What a relief..........
You think that makes us feel better (especially for those of us who could pass for them) ??
It still makes me uncomfortable regardless of the reason.
Well, I don't know if it was named for him particularly, I never asked, but certainly for one of his descendants. My suegra's grandfather was Manuel Piantini, born mid 1800s, grandson I think of the guy from Italy.
AE
The Piantini owned much of that land way before the city grew into it in the 1970s.
Here is one bust at the UASD - Santo Domingo Main Campus:NYC_Trini_Span said:
Looks like Pe?a G?mez to me.
Of the other busts of him, the largest one is on Ave Castellano, right before you go under the overpass, prior to the Francisco del Rosario S?nchez bridge (who, btw, was one of the founding fathers and Mulatto - or Black in American jargon - to boot). You can't miss it, it's huge.
This is the statue of Gregorio Luper?n in his native Puerto Plata, in one of the most triumphant styles any national heroe can ever be immortalized in, on a horse! There's an identical one (but much nicer) at the foot of the Monumento in Santiago.
His memory is immortalized on the 20 pesos note.
One last one:
I don't know how anyone can say that the Statue of Lemba doesn't look 'black enough.'
These are just the one's that comes to my mind at this moment, but there are more of these guys and of many other black/mulatto heroes.
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I can't believe that so many people here in the DR1 whom are always traveling to the DR or whom says that they live in the DR, they have never seen statue of black Dominican heroes!!!!!!!!
But I guess they don't want to see those statue of black Dominican heroes, because they just want to see how black/Haitian are being mistreated in the DR.
Not less can be expected from those same people whom have been living in the DR for years and still can't speak Spanish.
But I guess they don't want to see those statue of black Dominican heroes, because they just want to see how black/Haitian are being mistreated in the DR.
Not less can be expected from those same people whom have been living in the DR for years and still can't speak Spanish.
I knew that - I just don't which generation of Piantini lived there when they designated it a sector with that name.
Here's a photo I took of Luperon's statue in Puerto Plata:
AE
Hate of another person is never good. Nonetheless, constant criticism of Dominicans and claims of racism by the international community will not resolve the problem. We can't change history to make Dominicans forget what they experienced so the only real option is for Haiti to stand on it's own two feet to be more respected.
I would like to say it has been fairly evident after the earthquake that attitudes towards Haitians have changed a great deal. I don't expect that nationalism and racism will ever go away but it can be greatly diminished.
I would like to add that I know personally a successful Haitian businessman who lives here in the DR and he loves it and he has many family here too that have married Dominicans. If things were so bad here they wouldn't feel so welcome I don't believe.
Features look African to me.
<a href="http://s1188.photobucket.com/albums/z415/Dominicanbob/?action=view¤t=12368.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z415/Dominicanbob/12368.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1188.photobucket.com/albums/z415/Dominicanbob/?action=view¤t=12368.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z415/Dominicanbob/12368.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
The massacre he described in the documentary was the one about Haitians being killed on Trujillo's orders. The one referred to above was when Haitians came across the border into DR and began killing Dominicans. Two different massacres in two different centuries.
AE
Do not recall the two Dominican experts Moya Pon and Saillant Torres having any points of disagreement with Gates. In fact it was Moya Pons who said that the Dominican elites used to have an agenda of portraying the Daminican nation to have as white an image as possible.
Well I thought it was a very good documentary.. Excellent photography.. Now clearly there were errors.. such as the filming of the Cuban Son concert which passes for Merengue.. and the black statute issue.. But I think it is important to understand that there really is a denial of African ancestry on this side of the Island just as there is celebration of it on the other side. That is simply true. An historical and current fact. Even now, the practitioners of Voodu and the Haitian celebrations such as RaRa are denigrated and discriminated against here on this side -..- which may not be about Dominican but rather Christian vs... stuff..
Most Dominicans in the last generation were indeed taught that they do not have any African roots.......
And they get insulted if you refer to them as Black.... no matter how dark their skin is..
AND heaven forbid that you might ever mistake a Dominican for a Haitian.. the greatest insult.
Dominicans did not create the racial issue.. the racial divide... it was the colonial powers who introduced slavery and, in order to justify it, kept up the legend that Africans were somehow inferior.
Every nation in this hemisphere suffered for it.
We are still suffering.
The fact is that slavery was introduced into this hemishpere on this Island.. Here is where it all began..
And here lies the key to our getting over it all...
I appreciate the blend of rainbow colors that exist here. They make me smile....
but more drumming would be great
Most Dominicans in the last generation were indeed taught that they do not have any African roots.......
And they get insulted if you refer to them as Black.... no matter how dark their skin is..
AND heaven forbid that you might ever mistake a Dominican for a Haitian.. the greatest insult.
Dominicans did not create the racial issue.. the racial divide... it was the colonial powers who introduced slavery and, in order to justify it, kept up the legend that Africans were somehow inferior.
Every nation in this hemisphere suffered for it.
We are still suffering.
The fact is that slavery was introduced into this hemishpere on this Island.. Here is where it all began..
And here lies the key to our getting over it all...
I appreciate the blend of rainbow colors that exist here. They make me smile....
but more drumming would be great
I knew that - I just don't which generation of Piantini lived there when they designated it a sector with that name.
Here's a photo I took of Luperon's statue in Puerto Plata:
AE
I've actually seen a few of these, I lived in POP and San Fran De Macoris....
I just asked 3 of my DR co-workers if the man on the 20 pesos is considered a black man, and all 3, perhaps coincidentally, said no, he is Dominican.... lol
That one statue that is CLEARLY a black man, seems to me a homage, but then why in the DR when we get a "clear" homage (ie Lemba) does the image have to be the man in chains.... there were quite a few European dressed heroes as well. Does this not seem apparent? They are controlling the "image" not denying the image. that is different and this is at play in America as well, where you will see an actor of color get an oscar after 20 yrs for his most derogatory street N word using role, but not for his actual Oscar material. Then that same yr they will also award to a woman of color for a role where she is in Porn mode for 10 min, not awarding her for works that were critically acclaimed across the board.
BTW, in 6 months of living there I was able to begin teaching Spanish.... to ppl who'd been there for yrs.
But I can say this about America...does not mean things are "all good" just because money and power talks more than skin color. You lose that and you're back to being consider just another &#^%@#%...
This is of course not the rule but it's there
And to Bob Saunders.... yes he does... but so do many Dominicans which is my point... how are they denying the other parts of their history and/or DNA
While this historical fact is applicable to many other areas in the DR it boggles my mind as to why people continue to apply it to the DR's specific situation.
For all that don't know the DR situation never had significant slavery like the other colonies and very much like many other areas in the New World intermarrying was going on in the DR centuries before th 1800's. I had posted an estimated census of the 1700's of the DR and very significant were mulattoes who by all accounts were full citizens unlike other areas in the Americas.
Furthermore, yet again it it beyond belief that the Haitian invasion and massacring of Dominicans and their attempt at cultural genocide as a plausible cause for the current attitudes Dominicans have toward their neighbor is conveniently wisked away by the pc broom. I expect more from you MA than just crooning to the crowd.
I thought the piece on Brazil was most interesting. I literally kept yawning on the one with the Dominican Rep and Haiti.. This issue has been raised so many times. Gates is African American, in the US we have the one drop rule, in DR they do not. Dominicans have applied their own rules just like the US has which is fine. If their skin color is brown and they want to be called moreno, mulato or indio then that's fine..
Well Chip, I have as much sympathy for " listen to what they did to us in 1822" as I do for the "war of northern agression"
Ok.. over 100 years ago
get over it
get on with it
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