BREAKING NEWS from JUAN DOLIO!

[mountainfrog]

Deportados

... The deportees, some of whom do indeed turn to crime when they are back here, in terms of overall numbers have very little effect...

I could not agree less.
Last Wednesday again arrived 102 ex-US-convicts here bringing the total number of this year to 1041. Three thirds
were drug criminals.

It's very blue eyed to assume that those Dominicans turn into law abiding citizens once they hit their home soil....

Furthermore many crimes in this country are connected to Dominicans living abroad, e.g.:
http://www.elnacional.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=53026
The NY and Miami connections work.

m'frog

 

[macocael]

Hey m'frog, maybe you are right. I dont mean to assume anything, but there are no reliable reports on just what happens to these people when they get back here. I know a few of them who are involved in petty drug dealing here, and I have met a few others who indeed were petty muggers (nice group of people I hang out with, eh?). However, my impression is that the drug criminals are not turning to robbery but get involved in the burgeoning drug economy instead. Course, that is crime, but I should have stated my idea more precisely. Since we were discussing assault and robbery, I didnt stop to consider the effect of the drug trade, which is considerable. I read an article recently that presented statistics suggesting that the deportees were not involved in these sorts of crimes, their activities were more clandestine and related to better organized crime. But there seems to be little hard information to go by, and i admit I cannot furnish you with the link to that article just now, so it doesnt do much good as evidence for my viewpoint.

I will read the El Nacional article when I get a chance. I just have a feeling that the assaults and robbery are a local phenomenon. The drug dealers that i hung out with back in NYC would never think of getting involved in that type of crime; their whole outlook is very different.

 

[mountainfrog]

Balas Perdidas

.... my impression is that the drug criminals are not turning to robbery...

Good to know.
All what one has to do then is stay clear of their wars.
http://63.134.202.225/app/article.aspx?id=20774

m'frog

 

[DominicanScotty]

There is reason....

Ominous turn.......seems lately everything on this board has been about crime. Are these returnees from the states having an impact? If this keeps up and oil continues to climb does the country take a one two punch...tourism and general economy. Is this the other side of a peak? How can such a small country absorb an influx of hardened criminals and return them to their families? It would just seem appropriate they would migrate to tourist areas, where the naive and defenseless can be found.

Be very careful out there.

Everyday, there are released inmates and other deportees that are flown down to the Dominican Republic from the US. Since they are "not wanted" in the Dominican Republic they are free to roam freely.

Also, the "camposino" left his influence on the country. The years he had his dirty hands on the reins of this government we witnessed the demise of a large banking chain (Banniter) an airline (Aeromar) and the takeover of a phone company (Codetel) by Verizon and an unprecedented rise in crime. Also we witnessed the inflation of the peso skyrocket to over 50-1. While we are on our soapbox, the cartels have set up their shops in the Cibao and the rest of the country.

I hate to say it, but it is true. The recent influx of a new "tourists" have been flocking to the DR from countries that you would otherwise never see. Also, many tourists are coming down and they have a huge appetite for certain illegal substances. Supply and demand, it is there!

 

[AZB]

wait, is this rafael we are talking about? the guy with streaming video on DR1 parties? The guy with a pony tail?
I hope I am wrong.
AZB

 

[Mirador]

According to my source (a Haitian ex tonton macoute), the shooting was no ordinary crime, more like a professional mob-style killing... The victim was carrying loads of valuables (including cash both in dollars and pesos), which were not touched. Police are investigating his immediate associates, especially Italian expats...

-

 

[macocael]

Good to know.
All what one has to do then is stay clear of their wars.
http://63.134.202.225/app/article.aspx?id=20774

m'frog

That is probably a good idea! By the way, speaking of balas perdidas, I assume you know about the recent cases in Cristo Rey, which turn out to have been in part due to the drunken excess of a police officer nicknamed the "cowboy." He was in the habit of firing off his gun in the air.

Once you get hold of this coil, it just gets more and more entangled.

By the way, I am still not sure just how much the deportees contribute to all this, but I am not denying that they are a bad influence. I still think there are plenty of local reasons that account for what we are seeing down here.

 

[sbsuib]

crime

Who was the guy that was snatched?

A guy was snatched by people porporting to be members of the DNI (Local FBI? ) and they put him in the trunk and he has not been seen since. On the next street over from mine!

In do?a Esperanza's neighborhood, El Ejido, her local colmado owner was opening the place one morning over the weekend and a guy came up and asked to buy a bottle of rum-he stunk of rum- But when the door was open, he pulls a gun and takes all the phone cards and cash!

Be aware. Don't believe anyone who says that there is a complaint out on this vehicle or some other bull schitt story...don't go anywhere with anyone you don't know. Don't believe any phone calls that so-and-so was hurt and needs to see you, Bring Money!

Lots of ways to take your hard earned.

HB [/QUOTE]

 

[HOWMAR]

who must have been you then...?

m'frog

13? I'll eat my hat (beret) if she's not at least 23...

And he wears the headware mentioned.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Monsignor Agripino N??ez , in relation to the ex-criminals deported from the US, said “Look, we are living in a very complicated world, I do not believe that we can attribute everything on those who come from the United States. We are in an open country. Here people come from all parts and frequently when the National Drug Control Agency conducts some arrest they are European or South American.” From this statement I believe he is referring to drug crimes here in the DR in relation to referring to the NDCA. You will note that he does state that the deportees are a part of the problem. He says nothing about the arrests conducted by the national police or the military but I would venture, if it were even remotely possible to acquire those statistics, that you would find a number of those crimes being committed by deportees.

When I arrived here in 1996 crime involved an occasional theft of something that wasn’t nailed down. Any killings were almost always related to the police shooting someone or a couple drunks getting into a knife fight and one being a little less drunk then the other or with a bigger knife. It was in 2001 that I noticed a steady climb in crime in this country. It was two weeks ago that I read about a drive by shooting here and that is the first time I’ve read about that type of crime here but one that has been going on for years in the US. Is it coincidental that the growing influx of deportees coincides with the rising crime rate or is it a figment of our imagination? I believe there is a correlation between the two as does Monsignor Agripino N??ez.

http://www.americas.org/item_11058

Rick

 

[Eddy]

Got an email from Dunhill stating that at approx. 7:30 PM this evening,
Rafael - owner of Il Cappuchino and El Gordo Change bank was shot in the head.
No further news....at this time.
I'm assuming he's dead......

Glad we're outta there and safely back home!!

The gov't needs to get a handle on crime as it's beginning to affect tourism especially among those who journey to the DR year in and year out.

I know several people who wre 'regulars' in juan Dolio who have no plans to come back.

Anyone has any other news please post in this thread!!

Has anyone got more details? Forget the war stories.

 

[helpmann]

My Belief...

I think the rise in crime is primarily due to the recent abandonment of the Napoleonic Code..

-Helpmann

 

[AnnaC]

Here's the story

http://elnacional.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=53108

and a translator

BTW I don't think it's our DR1 member named rafael.

 

[mountainfrog]

That Makes At Least Four Of Us

I believe there is a correlation between the two as does Monsignor Agripino N??ez.
http://www.americas.org/item_11058

And so do the Dominican Attorney General Francisco and Police Chief Bernardo Santana Paez.
See:
http://www.americas.org/item_25229

m'frog

 

[MommC]

No it was not the Rafael who posts on this board....

It was the gentleman who ran Il Cappucino coffee shop for many years and who for the past couple of years also had a casa de cambio in front of La Cappella Beach Resort.

He was in his apartment when someone knocked at the door. When he opened the door another tenant heard him say "Don't bother me! Leave me alone - get out of here!"

3-5 shots rang out, hitting him in the head, chest, and leg, killing him almost instantly.

It was NOT a robbery as nothing was taken, not even a cheque that he had which was written out to him for almost 2 million pesos in 2004. He was still owed the money.......(???? would this be the reason for his murder????).

A black jeepeta was seen leaving the scene with the perpetrator.

At about the same time a black jeepeta was parked near Hotel Flor di Loto and aroused suspicion so the owner of the hotel called police to check it out. When the police arrived they found the jeepeta had been reported stolen eight months earlier. Just then one of her guests arrived and told police he had rented that particular jeepeta in the capital.

He was taken to the police station and held until this morning when the papers were received from Santo Domingo to show that he had indeed rented the jeepeta (Wonder how a car rental agency can rent stolen vehicles to unsuspecting tourists) , so that jeepeta was NOT the one involved in the murder......

Will keep you informed as I hear more from on the scene......

MommC (your OFF the scene reporter!)

 

[Eddy]

Not bad for an "Off the scene" reporter

What would it be like on the scene?
THanks for the info. Keep up the good work.

 

[macocael]

And so do the Dominican Attorney General Francisco and Police Chief Bernardo Santana Paez.
See:
http://www.americas.org/item_25229

m'frog

They "believe" yes; but if you read the article carefully it backs up what I am saying. There is no proven link,there is only a prejudicial belief that this is the case:

"We do not have statistics directly linking the increased crime to the deportees," says Police Chief Bernardo Santana Paez, "... but what we know is that there is some connection."

Yeah, that is like Bush saying that we know that Saddam has nuclear weapons. I dont mind a policeman trusting his instinct; I dont even mind his acting on it. That is usually the mark of good policework. But the proof is something else again. Common sense dictates a connection; but common sense is often wrong, or at least exaggerated in its reliability.

The article also points out that the deportees are a mixed bag of crooks:

"While the crimes of those deported range from rape and homicide to jumping a turnstile or writing a bad check: Often all are tarred with the same brush. With reports of violent crime in the DR increasing, much of the focus of the anger has been on "outsiders" be they Haitian migrant workers or these deportees, who are sometimes called "Dominican-Yorks."

Many of them are not hardcore. Course, it doesnt take many hardcore types to mess things up. "One rotten apple . . . . " But it is plain that there has in fact been alot of demonizing of outsiders in order to shift the blame from where it really rests, and as I said that also involves local factors that have been ignored for too long.

Dont get me wrong though. This deportation law is a bad thing all around. Vega, as usual, is right.

 

[Chris]

MommC (your OFF the scene reporter!)

And it is probably the safest and best to stay off the scene.. The whole story is scary, but the story of the jeepetta is crazy ... Ending up in jail for a night for renting a vehicle! Seems to me there is something wrong with this picture.

 

[Danny W]

People speculate about the reasons for crime, and of course there are many contributing factors. But I think that the lack of police patrol is a major factor as well.

I wonder how much crime would increase in any city in the US if there was no police presence on the street? The US crime rate might dwarf the Dominican crime rate under those circumstances.

I live in a very safe neighborhood in Manhattan, but the local bank has been robbed several times. The reason is beacuse there is no guard, and the banks are instructed just to hand over money and not endanger the customers. The streets of the DR are without police patrol, and therefore the only protection is the conscience of the people. - D

 

[MrMike]

They "believe" yes; but if you read the article carefully it backs up what I am saying. There is no proven link,there is only a prejudicial belief that this is the case:

"We do not have statistics directly linking the increased crime to the deportees," says Police Chief Bernardo Santana Paez, "... but what we know is that there is some connection."

Yeah, that is like Bush saying that we know that Saddam has nuclear weapons. I dont mind a policeman trusting his instinct; I dont even mind his acting on it. That is usually the mark of good policework. But the proof is something else again. Common sense dictates a connection; but common sense is often wrong, or at least exaggerated in its reliability.

The article also points out that the deportees are a mixed bag of crooks:

"While the crimes of those deported range from rape and homicide to jumping a turnstile or writing a bad check: Often all are tarred with the same brush. With reports of violent crime in the DR increasing, much of the focus of the anger has been on "outsiders" be they Haitian migrant workers or these deportees, who are sometimes called "Dominican-Yorks."

Many of them are not hardcore. Course, it doesnt take many hardcore types to mess things up. "One rotten apple . . . . " But it is plain that there has in fact been alot of demonizing of outsiders in order to shift the blame from where it really rests, and as I said that also involves local factors that have been ignored for too long.

Dont get me wrong though. This deportation law is a bad thing all around. Vega, as usual, is right.

Funny how we can all agree the cardinal's grip on reality may be lacking when he says that all the homosexuals should be shipped out and that people who like to party on Easter weekend are animals, but somehow he might have insight into exactly how deportees behave.

As for the chief of police, I could only imagine that in his position he would feel alot of pressure to shift the blame away from the one organization that cannot possibly evade responsibility for the crime rate in the DR - his own police force.

Oh, and by the way, he did just fire over 30 police officers for crimes ranging from drug trafficking to kidnapping. No mention of whether these former officers are now on the street or behind bars. (or even who they are) but they will need to make a living and considering their history and skillsets I'd say they could easily do more damage than any truckload of deported subway turnstyle-jumpers.

Dominicans have been getting deported from the US for decades, but the crime rate first began it's sharp climb when Hippo & co. started selling get out of jail free cards to all and sundry.