Building an Inexpensive APARTMENT --3 questions

[Chip]

I'm sure there are plenty of knowledgeable engineers/architect/constructors here in the DR doing good work. The challenge is finding one and getting what one wants at inexpensive rates.

At the end of the day if someone is choosing a builder, assuming they all have good references and do good quality work, what's left to decide is cost and convenience. The method we use I believe is cheaper than most but the client has to be more involved in paying for the invoices on time to keep the work on schedule and honestly, this may not be worth it for everyone. It might make more sense for some people then to pay more for the added convenience of not having to be so involved.

 

[Taino808]

Thanks for the info.

Glad I could be of service.

 

[bob saunders]

For me it is a big issue to not be there during the construction. I did spend about three weeks there but definitely not suficient as far as I'm concerned. I have a very critical eye from years of inspecting aircraft for defects and leaks, and spent 3 years working for a construction company in my early years ( 18-21 years old) and did a lot of concrete work, so know a thing or two.
My own biggest problem is not knowing the terminology in Spanish to confirm whether the guys doing the job are knowledgeable. I certainly saw some things that made me shake my head and others that I gave high approval for.
We have a total cost, and a costing for materials but not a costing for labour. We were satified with the price based on material and size of the building. We will do the next one differently, but we will be there so it will be easier.

 

[Bigocean]

You say that you are not attacking me and then post in bold asking to clarify my credentials in this area not to mention criticize me saying I know little about home building here in the DR even though we are doing one currently for a client who by all accounts is satisfied.

Anyway, the house we are currently building is our first home building project but I have been here since 2006 and I have been researching home building for some time.

You seem to insinuate that if I have not built a house by myself I can't possibly know what I am talking about and yet not all constructoras from what I've seen aren't architects or engineers but merely businessman who get clients and define the limits of the contract. In other words, why is it relevant if I don't know how do install plaster? That's what my business partner is for. I do know about the earthwork preparation and was present during the excavation and fill of the project in question. I also know how to read building plans but that's not really my role in this business. My role is to manage the interface with the client, create the contract and handle all billing and invoicing not to mention the quality control and scheduling as well. Still, I go to the project frequently and have reiterated a thousand times to my Dominican business partner that quality is everything and we won't be cutting any corners on rebars or cement or materials. I have complete faith in him as he worked with the Christian ministry I mentioned. I personally spoke with the owner and he says Anjito was by far the best maestro he had ever had and was well trained and qualified by American standards. Did I forget to mention I also developed the floor plan and that we worked on that for over three months, all at no cost?

The other part of my experience is derived from my ongoing masters program in Construction Administration. There are 23 students total and all but one is a civil engineer. Furthermore, most by far have full time jobs either as independent consultants or as paid employees. I have discussed contracts with a few of them and while it is true the cost plus method is used again it is mostly used to contract an engineer as opposed to a constructora and I doubt it is as developed and transparent as ours. They certainly aren't developing the customized conceptual floor plans and elevations at no cost. Finally, and maybe the most important is few are doing it at the price we are offering.

Finally, it is not a requirement in any engineering or construction firm I've ever worked for or heard of for the project manager, which would be my title, among others, to know how to do every component of what is required to complete a project as obviously by the time someone was able to get the experience for the different disciplines they would be too old too work. Rather, what is required is a general knowledge of engineering or maybe a specific area or a degree in the area of construction management. As far as my personal experience goes, I've never seen any Construction Administration graduates installing block on the job, yet they are charged to run typically large projects requiring the involvement of numerous disciplines.

Ok there you have it. I'd like to know about your experience as well and the firms you have contracted here.

Thank you Chip. That gives a certain sense of perspective to your pronouncements.

 

[Chip]

Thank you Chip. That gives a certain sense of perspective to your pronouncements.

Certainly.

Might we know your qualifications so we can get a sense of perspective to your pronouncements as well?

 

[Bigocean]

What we offer our clients is basically the same thing you offer, thus the reason why I agreed with you in my post above. However, we tend to build the project at total cost to us, then bill the client after the house/building has been finished, with previously signed contracts of course.

A friend of mine just had his house built like this (cost plus) as well and the builder insisted that he live in the house a few weeks to make sure everything worked correctly before he made the payment for the house. The homeowner reviewed and approved all of the bills and charges weekly during the construction so that no unauthorized would be added to the final cost. Very safe for the owner as he pays no money until the house is 100% complete and he is 100% satisfied.

To the original OP, just be sure to get references, talk to past customers and see examples of past work of anybody that you are thinking about using so you can avoid the problems that Gordon is facing. Any reputable builder or tradesman will be more than happy to introduce you to his past jobs and especially his past clients so that you can speak to them directly. This goes for your builder or maestro, woodworking guy, cabinet guy (if different), window doors, etc. My friend extensively interviewed a number of builders before making his choice. He chose his builder based on the positive comments he received from several of the builders past customers.

 

[bob saunders]

There's no doubt that word of mouth recommendations and seeing actual completed projects are a good way to select or fine tune a list of prospective contractors, but certainly aren't the only criteria.

 

[Chip]

Bigocean, we are still waiting.

 

[Bigocean]

There's no doubt that word of mouth recommendations and seeing actual completed projects are a good way to select or fine tune a list of prospective contractors, but certainly aren't the only criteria.

A quick review of Gordon's posts in this thread clearly illustrate the folly of poor due diligence in choosing your contractor. I would imagine that Gordon would think that seeking recommendations and seeing actual completed projects is pretty important now.

 

[Gordon]

You are right about folly BigOcean. The OP has been quiet since I told my side of the story. From the looks the maestro gave my wife tonight I can only suspect the OP had a talk with him directly about what was being discussed here. It would not surprise me. That of course would place my entire family and property in danger if he thought it was me that was influencing any potential reduction in income or credibility by exposing him. He also has access to weapons. The OP is only a part timer here and does not seem to get the picture.
The OP also fails to realize that supporting this man with salary and providing him with credibility, directly and indirectly supports violence against women, seniors and promotes continuity of unnecessary lawsuits against gringos and gringas. I will draft up my own thread because my main desire now is warn those that appreciate the warning and also to help the children that are missing charity money as a result of other scams. But that is another story not worthy here.
I hear you about seeking recommendations in advance and this story is a lot bigger than just some financial loss too. If we could only go back in time.

 

[bob saunders]

A quick review of Gordon's posts in this thread clearly illustrate the folly of poor due diligence in choosing your contractor. I would imagine that Gordon would think that seeking recommendations and seeing actual completed projects is pretty important now.

We are fortunate that my wife knows the community (Jarabacoa) and many of the local contractors. She has several cousins that work in construction and many former students that are involved in pretty well every business venture in the area. She seems to have numerous people giving us updates on our building. Many stop in and look over the whole house and give us their opinions and are quick to point out something that they feel needs to be looked at. Our builder also knows my wife since they were children and they know if she's unhappy they'll loose a lot of future business. BigOcean we are still waiting for your qualifications, since you were so critical of Chip. Chip is a little modest- he is more accomplished that he says.

 

[xwill]

After studying Chip's excellent original thread on homebuilding the DR way and following his advice and that of JaguarBob and Bob in Jarabacoa, I'm now building a 2 story studio apartment (first floor will just be open garage for now)

I have an outstanding maestro and the second floor was poured a couple days ago-- I was going to send the following 3 questions privately to the two Bob's; however...I would welcome any and all advice from those of you who have "been there---done that!" -

1. What building mistakes did you make that you would warn a first-time builder not to repeat?
2. Any leads on where we can buy louvered glass windows and sliding glass doors?
3. JagBob: We're paying $323/bag for cement (in Las Terrenas) and you said you paid $250-- Where and when did you pay those prices and can we also buy from that supplier?

Muchas, muchas gracias for your time!:bunny:
Susan

Don't be cheap on the re-bar and don't leave construction workers alone! Even with their boss leading them, they will find a way to mess up some part of the project!

Also, whats up with some of these lousy houses in DR with the low ceilings??? Why even bother building if you are not going to add a good height in each floor?

 

[susan77]

OP here again-- Too busy last few days to check the forum, though I see I've mostly only missed some paranoid rantings (get a grip, Gordon!) and trading of qualifications and a couple more good tips--
Our apartment (La Casa del Arbrol) continues to "grow" and I can't say enough good things about our Maestro! Y'all have discussed cost per sq meter, however, here's what we did: I showed my maestro a similar building here in LT that I wanted built on our property and he gave me an estimate of total materials cost and how long it would take to complete-- I reported in an earlier how much I pay my workers so I have an excellent idea of total cost-- The maestro hired a plumber for 18,000 for entire job-- I paid him 5000 advance after he'd worked daily the past week (I also told Maestro the earlier caveats about plumbing that were given at beginning of this thread)-- The electrician arrives tomorrow- We are on target to complete the project on time and on budget (until I go shopping at IKEA!!!)
I've had several friends with house-building experience over these past two weeks and everyone has been impressed by the quality of the masonry, pouring and curing of concrete, size and installation of rebar, carpentry. preliminary plumbing and apartment lay-out (which I designed--with NO experience!!) So we continue..onward and upward!
I wish everyone a wonderful week!!!
Susan

 

[lisagauss]

OP here again-- Too busy last few days to check the forum, though I see I've mostly only missed some paranoid rantings (get a grip, Gordon!) and trading of qualifications and a couple more good tips--
Our apartment (La Casa del Arbrol) continues to "grow" and I can't say enough good things about our Maestro! Y'all have discussed cost per sq meter, however, here's what we did: I showed my maestro a similar building here in LT that I wanted built on our property and he gave me an estimate of total materials cost and how long it would take to complete-- I reported in an earlier how much I pay my workers so I have an excellent idea of total cost-- The maestro hired a plumber for 18,000 for entire job-- I paid him 5000 advance after he'd worked daily the past week (I also told Maestro the earlier caveats about plumbing that were given at beginning of this thread)-- The electrician arrives tomorrow- We are on target to complete the project on time and on budget (until I go shopping at IKEA!!!)
I've had several friends with house-building experience over these past two weeks and everyone has been impressed by the quality of the masonry, pouring and curing of concrete, size and installation of rebar, carpentry. preliminary plumbing and apartment lay-out (which I designed--with NO experience!!) So we continue..onward and upward!
I wish everyone a wonderful week!!!
Susan

Wish you the best of luck, any pictures you can share?

 

[susan77]

Thanks, Lisa! Your house, btw, looks big and beautiful---congrats!
I'm just abt to finally upload my pics to Picasa to send to my friends and family in US and I'll post the link or just a few pics when they're ready--
Susan

 

[Chip]

Susan

I hope everything goes well for you. I understand your maestro had references, did you also contract an architect or engineer to draw up the house plans? I would recommend this to anybody wanting to build a home. Certainly some maestros can do this without plans but still I would recommend it to be more sure of the design. This is especially important when it comes to the footing, column and beam designs.

 

[Gordon]

Dear OP. If only they were my simply paranoid rantings I would be so cheerful. The night he chose to come to my road uninvited and purposeful to attack me and accost my wife on what he thought was a dark and deserted road will always be vivid in my mind. He and his wife did not know that an armed security guard and other witnesses were behind a wall nearby watching everything that was going on. That is in the police report. I have never in all my sixty years ever previously had to get a restraining order against anyone. He was a friend I thought at first too and now exposed. He only got violent towards my wife and I after I caught him stealing from me. It is a documented theft and involves not only me but the knowledge of a business person downtown. I have lots of proof, something that paranoids do not. There were several suspected thefts by him leading up to this, but in this country you have to have pretty iron proof before you can take on a con in court. The judge and fiscals do not believe him or his wife, only the OP who has not even looked at the evidence or taken the time to check out what I say.

The court dates and false charges and accusations by both him and his wife are true and all documented. His lawyer is also being investigated for extortion on another case. The expenses of hiring a non qualified maestro will cause me significant personal costs for a long time coming. The fact that this has fallen on deaf ears no longer concern me. My desire to assist you with avoiding similiar problems is totally over, but I think it is a shame for unsuspecting people everywhere that you continue to promote a person capable of costly and doing these horrible things.

It also amuses me now how the con process work and how people like yourself, someone who when people first meet you they think you have some sort of a level of intelligence, yet you continue to be so naive even when presented with statements otherwise. i feel so sorry for the others that might accept your recommendations at face value.

The DR1 forum is full of people that have no interest in being on the short end or promoting cons and for those I wish to share my story.

Chip although this OP knew both me and the project he was working on immediately prior to hers she did not research before or later the references available easily to her. I would have sent her on to the project just before mine that also ended up in false court accusations by the maestro. I did not know it at the time as the project owner was out of the country but he filled me in later and he paid him off instead of fighting it in court. Usually that is a lot cheaper and something the con relies on. I only know of two such incidences directly but I have also heard of others that I could have sent her on to research. I was through with him by then and had no personal need any longer. It is astonishing how stupid people can be when undergoing the con they even want to brush off friendly well intended advice from personal experience.

 

[Chip]

Gordon

That sounds messy and I am truly sorry for what has happened to you and your wife.

I do not know the op but hope she has someone capable reviewing the construction work. I only wish her the best. I'm here to help.