candidacy dealt with......church is next.

bochinche

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1. pph had the constitution changed to be able to have hipolito stand again.
2. pph have placed men, 'sympathetic' to their cause on the electoral board.
3. pph believes they have cast the other prd presidential candidates aside.
4. pph believes they have removed the old prd president and placed their own man.
5. pph now have hipolito 'officially' signed up as the prd presidential candidate.

six months ago nobody would have believed the pph would have got as far as number 5 and it is amazing to see how they have managed to get through each stumbling block with apparent ease. everytime one is passed their confidence must go higher and higher.
i believe number 7 is the final stumbling block in which the pph will have hipolito win the election by hook or by crook, or even, as a last resort, by having no election at all.

what about number 6 you ask. number six is how to handle the church. this is where juan bosch lost it in his last elections. in the dr, if the government deems not to listen to the church, they pay the consequences.

the pph and especially hipolito, up to now, have been especially quiet about the church, by not contesting anything, or even "pooh-poohing" any of the findings of the church. this has particularly bothered our opus dei cardinal, who always had a particularly special relationship with balaguer, and a good one with leonel (our cardinal loves to be in the limelight - something he does not get with hipolito).
who can blame the pph? they have concentrated on each stumbling block, one at a time. they prefer to deal with the next, once the previous one is overcome (and only then). very shrewd. even xr as an "astute political observer" can't fail to observe this (it would be easy to throw in a jibe here about how if he is such an astute political observer, why did he fail to observe the fraud that was carried out in florida, but it is cheap, antagonistic and not dr related, so i shall resist the temptation).

now, however, with number 5 done, they are starting on number 6. sanchez baret, the 'other' prd party political president has started today by basically claiming that one sector of the church is getting itself too involved in politics and should keep a distance.
notice how he said that it is one sector. this is the pph formula that has worked so successfully. if there is one group against them, they break down that group into different factors, looking for the weak spot. using this tactic, they split the super seven and they made it easier to depose hatuey by keeping subervi (who continues to be played and waste everybody's time).
eventually they will find somebody, semi-prominent in the church who is sympathetic to the pph. that semi-prominent person will suddenly be elevated to the status of the cardinal (politically speaking) and be allowed to split the church'es way of thinking, leaving people confused about what is the church'es right and what is the church'es wrong political stand-point.

assuming most fellow dr1'ers don't want the pph to win the next elections, it is very, very important that the church stays together and doesn't fragment its stand against them.
however once the pph have found a split and exploited it, roll on number 7.

i believe the master tactician behind all of this is sjb - but that is something else.
 

BushBaby

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Splendid analysis, Bochinche!

And today we have Hatuey forming an alliance with the Cardinal, so your predictions are coming true.
I don't want to hijack this important thread, but CNN International reported from inside Haiti Monday, & apparently reporter saw armed gangs entering Haiti from Dominican Republic. As this is different from what "authorities" here report (all under control at border), do you think Hippo is supporting rebels in Haiti to have another reason to cancel elections here? Viz, social unrest spreads across the border, so it isn't possible to have May elections, so Hippo in power another 2 years? Could this be his antidote to a strong union of Church & Hatuey and his supporters?
This is Bushbaby's other half, Ginnie.
 

XanaduRanch

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Ginnie,

As you read his analysis here, be sure and read this one as well. Check post #15: http://dr1live.com/showthread.php?t=29297 It would be funny if it weren't so sad. This is why the DR is on the fast track to turn into another Haiti.

N Tom aka XR

P.S.
I am glad we agree about fraud in the Florida election. Because since it's not DR related we can't talk about it here. Fortunately in the U.S. the Supreme Court saw through it and put a stop to it. Let's hope the high court here is as wise in dealing with Baldy's and the PRD's shenanigans.
 

BushBaby

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Thanks, Tom, for the reference

which I read with interest. I also think, on balance, that Leonel would be better for this country BUT Bochinche has a point, doesn't he. With a PPH stacked Congress, Senate (?&JCE) how can anyone achieve much without their approval - this holds for whoever is President - Leonel, Hatuey (or dare one suggest Troncoso, after today's meeting). If memory serves me right we had high hopes for Leonel in 96 & he started out well, BUT it all tapered off when he had to pay the bill to Balaguer for getting him there in the first place. I fear the bill will be higher this time around.
As a foreigner here, I'm reluctant to tell Dominicans how to think (if I knew, that is), although I'll debate till hell freezes over (Grahame will attest to that!). I guess Bochinche is saying that Leonel's more cerebral qualities will be less effective in downing the PPH than Hatuey's more, shall we say pragmatic (or strongarm) qualities. I'm not suggesting he'd use concrete vests, particularly given the price of cement, but I guess Bochinche knows his own politicians better than I do.
Ginnie
 

PJT

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Is the motive for Vicente S?nchez Baret becoming a defacto voice, stooge, for the Presidente against the Church, his own lame attempt to gain higher office or is it kowtowing to the Presidente to maintain his present position as Director General of Customs?

Regards,
PJT
 

XanaduRanch

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Dominicans for Graft!

BushBaby said:
I guess Bochinche is saying that Leonel's more cerebral qualities will be less effective in downing the PPH than Hatuey's more, shall we say pragmatic (or strongarm) qualities.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Never the less 'who can win' or 'who's ahead' is not a reason to vote for someone. Who is going to make life better, and provide hope and opportunity for me, and my fellow Dominicans, is.

That's the point that I, suarezn, mondongo and others were making that 'Dominicans for Graft'* like Bochinche ignores. His vote goes for who will hand himpersonally the most in illegal graft, caring not that it comes from the pockets of the rest of his poor contrymen who will see nothing but their children dieing of disease and starvation over the next four years because of his selfishness.

Tom aka XR

*See this exchange:


Mondongo: bochinche, which pie....and who much of it have you been promised? I hope I am mis-interpretting you cause if I am not then ......tsk....tsk....tsk
Suarezn: Thanks...You cleared out the REAL reason he's with Hatuey. We, Dominicans deserve to have Hippo for 20 more years. Para muestra un boton...
Bocinche: ....guilty.
 
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Tony C

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Wow the Catholic Church is comming out against Mejia?

Makes me almost want to vote for Hippo!

Almost.

Well! As they say: The enemy of my enemy is my Friend! I will need to take a long shower when this mess is over.
 

suarezn

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Tony C said:
Wow the Catholic Church is comming out against Mejia?

Makes me almost want to vote for Hippo!

Almost.

Well! As they say: The enemy of my enemy is my Friend! I will need to take a long shower when this mess is over.
As I've said before I believe there are only two things that may make Hippo lose power. One is pressure from the US. I don't see any being applied right now or in the near future, as long as he continues to send Dominican troops to Irak and continues to cooperate with the DEA, IMF, etc...
The second one is if he gets into confrontations with the church. Nobody has ever won an election in the DR without the approval of the church. They were the main reason Balaguer lost power in 1978 and the main reason Bosch was deposed in 1963 and why he was never able to re-gain power. The cardinal has an inmense amount of power in a country like the DR, where up to 90% of people are catholics. Believe me, if the cardinal and the bishops start making statements against Hippo, he's done with. There's just no way to get into a fight with the church and come out victorious, as they will always just play the "god" card. On the other hand the church could be easily appeased with...what else? Money. They will build them a bunch or churches, have a few of the PPH people publicly apologize, etc...and before you know it you won't hear the cardinal saying anything against Hippo.
 

bochinche

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XanaduRanch said:
That's the point that I, suarezn, mondongo and others were making that 'Dominicans for Graft'* like Bochinche ignores. His vote goes for who will hand himpersonally the most in illegal graft, caring not that it comes from the pockets of the rest of his poor contrymen who will see nothing but their children dieing of disease and starvation over the next four years because of his selfishness.
- you are being ridiculous. how you managed to conclude all of that from my posts is just beyond me.
- i don't deny some connection with hatuey's camp, but how do you go from that to seeing children dying of disease and starvation.
- i have also been accused, by someone else of selling my soul.

- you make me sound like the devil himself. i've a good mind to come round there and stick one of my six hundred and sixty-six red hot poker's up your arse.
 

XanaduRanch

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No.

bochinche said:
you make me sound like the devil himself. i've a good mind to come round there and stick one of my six hundred and sixty-six red hot poker's up your arse.
You, make you sound like the devil himself. Please note that those are your words you're hanging yourself by. Like not being able to understand how receiving graft means that hospitals aren't funded, medicines aren't available, and no money exists to pay for gasoline and diesel to bring food to the colmados.

Shame on you! Shame on you for even trying to defelct your callous lack of regard for anyone else's behind but yours onto everybody else.

I those words and statements of yours sound harsh, cruel, or just plain stupid in the light of day then try for once doing the un-Dominican thing by pointing the finger of blame at yourself where it belongs and not at everyone within the same area code.

Tom aka XR

P.S.
The poker idea is not a very good one right now. You're likely to go home in many more pieces than you arrived here in when entering Xanadu unannounced. Word to the wise. And even to you as well.
 

Tony C

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bochinche said:
-
- i don't deny some connection with hatuey's camp, but how do you go from that to seeing children dying of disease and starvation.
.

That alone makes you as bad as Hippo in my book.

Hatuey is all that is bad about the PRD personified. the Only reason he is fighting Mejia is bacause he thought it was his turn at the Cash Register!(the Presidency)

Hatuey was involved with the Raping of the Dominican Economy during the Guzman and Jorge Blanco administrations. He has even been mentioned more than a few times of having been involved in Guzman's murder.(You don't really believe the Suicide Story do you?)
 

bochinche

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Tony C said:
Hatuey was involved with the Raping of the Dominican Economy during the Guzman and Jorge Blanco administrations. He has even been mentioned more than a few times of having been involved in Guzman's murder.(You don't really believe the Suicide Story do you?)
- well, actually i do believe the suicide story.....(conspiracy theory = boring).

- the guzman administration was very different to that of sjb.
 

bochinche

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Tony C said:
That alone makes you as bad as Hippo in my book.
you have completely lost me.....the fact that i have some connection with hatuey's camp makes me as bad as hippo?

or.....the fact that i can't equate that with children dying of disease and starvation makes me as bad as hippo?


.....this will really get up your nose.......fidel is my hero! does that mean i eat babies?
 

XanaduRanch

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How Wonderfully Amusing!

bochinche said:
...fidel is my hero! does that mean i eat babies?
Perhaps you should remember the words of another communist mentor then, Lenin, who said "We will sell the Western businessmen the rope with which we will hang them."

We've given you the rope, Bochinche. You have no one else to blame for wrapping it around your neck with your own words and hanging yourself, but you.

Tom aka XR
 

bochinche

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XanaduRanch said:
Perhaps you should remember the words of another communist mentor then, Lenin, who said "We will sell the Western businessmen the rope with which we will hang them."

We've given you the rope, Bochinche. You have no one else to blame for wrapping it around your neck with your own words and hanging yourself, but you.
- i thought lenin said that, "the capitalists will sell the very rope from which we will hang them." - which makes a bit more sense.

....i could be wrong, but it was retained up my a***.
 

XanaduRanch

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bochinche said:
- i thought lenin said that, "the capitalists will sell the very rope from which we will hang them." - which makes a bit more sense.
....i could be wrong, but it was retained up my a***.
Not that it matters, but no, in this quote it was as I typed it. Lenin rarely used the word 'capitalist' without attaching it to the word for "Western", or "Western Businessmen", etc. Very rarely solo. And in this case this is a misquote passed down through the years by teachers and others who heard it from someone else and figured it was fact without having checked the source or bothered to read the original Russian.

Russian is fairly easy for English speakers. Try it sometime. When you've actually figured out what "Taanstafl" (sp?) means then you will understand why lots of people here are upset at your desire to freeload at everyone elses's expense.

Tom aka XR
 

BushBaby

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Gentlemen, gentlemen

Methought this civilised political debate was deteriorating somewhat. Is the receipt of "graft" peculiarly Dominican? I'm certainly aware of it in my country of origin (UK) and maybe, possibly, a teenie bit in US as well? The payoffs are different though - power, public service (feelgood factor), family dynasty etc. Don't we have to start where people are? IF (big if) graft is the "cultural norm" I don't see it being changed by a fierce exchange of words. Maybe we have to mesh our expectations to those of a survival society?
Ginnie
 

bochinche

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BushBaby said:
Methought this civilised political debate was deteriorating somewhat. Is the receipt of "graft" peculiarly Dominican? I'm certainly aware of it in my country of origin (UK) and maybe, possibly, a teenie bit in US as well? The payoffs are different though - power, public service (feelgood factor), family dynasty etc. Don't we have to start where people are? IF (big if) graft is the "cultural norm" I don't see it being changed by a fierce exchange of words. Maybe we have to mesh our expectations to those of a survival society?
Ginnie
- i apologise. however, i'd hardly call it a fierce exchange of words. i just love it when some people get so wound up and then bite so easily.

- however i can't resist it.........wasn't too long ago that someone was telling us about his own connections with that fraudster bush.....- let's see how long before he swallows this baited hook.