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Charlie Rose - Update on Haiti
Have you seen what these clowns say about travelling to the D.R?
Yet people still travel there without problems.
If I followed the advice of these people I would never have left my cozy little country. Heck, I would be scared to walk out of my door.
And the fact is that there is no war here in Haiti.
You realize, I'm sure, when thje per capita GDP of the RD-a "poor" country-is around $8000, folks hafta kinda chuckle about parsing the difference between Somalia's $600 and Haiti's $1300.
And I just pulled Somalia off the top fo my head. Maybe I shoulda used Burkina Faso or Uganda for the humorless.
Maybe not - but this is a discussion and Cobraboy was using an example, a comparison and perhaps an analogy.
Back to the plot -
Politics will never be fixed in Haiti.
That is an irrelevance - life goes on the same.
All the other stuff that "donors" require to happen before they hand over the cash they pledged, like fixing corruption, governmental transparency, good civil law etc. will not change - so bugger all that.
Somebody has to just get on with it, regardless.
Curiously that means there is little competition for anybody willing to have a go.
And Cobraboy, if you can start a business and make it work successfully in the D.R. you would totally clean up here - maybe you should think about it??
:bunny:
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I have a couple of reactions --
first- just off the bat is that there are lots and lots of people who care about Haiti-- for instance - half of all Americans gave money to help after the quake and I am certain that every one of those people wants to see progress....
next -- as for a military occupation - I think that there were many Haitians who were hoping for that - that somehow the Corps of Engineers would come in and the place would get rebuild and everyone could go home to a new house and roads and electricity and running water.....
then third -- all the talk about all the medical care =yes, there were lots of doctors and free clinics - and in the mess no one thought to keep the public hospitals going- no one paid the state supported doctors, who have now probably just left the country.....
I did post the link for the recovery commission but here it is again IHRC
on that you will find a few things -- like their plan to get control of all the NGO projects that are working there ... and if you read the economic plan (even though it is just a "working paper" even though it is not even posted in
French-- ) you will see that the "plan" is to move people out of PauP and to construct housing for "them" (and who qualifies for these houses?) outside of PaP - in other cities -- to decentralize the country..So I sincerely doubt that there is going to be big effort to "clean up" PauP -- rather wait til more and more people leave. (maybe I say that because I just do not want to believe that it could not be done if there was a real will)
You will also see that three months into this, the CIRH is still looking to fill its to five exec slots -- so the progess is going to be sloooooww...
Clinton already had in place in his foundation a rather radical approach in funding projects - that they would not fund a project unless it was going to be self sustaining after two years. That is not the way the traditional large NGOs operate. So he was already putting in place a new model. And this model is one that he is going to carry forward. He has been very public about this saying "are we serious about putting ourselves out of work"
As for elections- of course they are just a sham. the last midterm elections were are sham as well with an extremely low voter turnout. A new president will be - shall we say -- put in place-- But for all practical purposes the power for the recovery effort has been ceded to the Clinton Commission. There is a fake bow to the principals of democracy but since it was never really in place (except perhaps for the first election of Aristide) ...and since Haiti has long been a ward of the international community - that is how they are being treated.
The other thing to remember is that all the food aid is disruptive to the local economy - disruptive to commerce and local agriculture.
There does not seem to be any sort of effort to get "the plan" out to people - to have discussions on it But it would be really great if we could start such a discussion....... yes?
first- just off the bat is that there are lots and lots of people who care about Haiti-- for instance - half of all Americans gave money to help after the quake and I am certain that every one of those people wants to see progress....
next -- as for a military occupation - I think that there were many Haitians who were hoping for that - that somehow the Corps of Engineers would come in and the place would get rebuild and everyone could go home to a new house and roads and electricity and running water.....
then third -- all the talk about all the medical care =yes, there were lots of doctors and free clinics - and in the mess no one thought to keep the public hospitals going- no one paid the state supported doctors, who have now probably just left the country.....
I did post the link for the recovery commission but here it is again IHRC
on that you will find a few things -- like their plan to get control of all the NGO projects that are working there ... and if you read the economic plan (even though it is just a "working paper" even though it is not even posted in
French-- ) you will see that the "plan" is to move people out of PauP and to construct housing for "them" (and who qualifies for these houses?) outside of PaP - in other cities -- to decentralize the country..So I sincerely doubt that there is going to be big effort to "clean up" PauP -- rather wait til more and more people leave. (maybe I say that because I just do not want to believe that it could not be done if there was a real will)
You will also see that three months into this, the CIRH is still looking to fill its to five exec slots -- so the progess is going to be sloooooww...
Clinton already had in place in his foundation a rather radical approach in funding projects - that they would not fund a project unless it was going to be self sustaining after two years. That is not the way the traditional large NGOs operate. So he was already putting in place a new model. And this model is one that he is going to carry forward. He has been very public about this saying "are we serious about putting ourselves out of work"
As for elections- of course they are just a sham. the last midterm elections were are sham as well with an extremely low voter turnout. A new president will be - shall we say -- put in place-- But for all practical purposes the power for the recovery effort has been ceded to the Clinton Commission. There is a fake bow to the principals of democracy but since it was never really in place (except perhaps for the first election of Aristide) ...and since Haiti has long been a ward of the international community - that is how they are being treated.
The other thing to remember is that all the food aid is disruptive to the local economy - disruptive to commerce and local agriculture.
There does not seem to be any sort of effort to get "the plan" out to people - to have discussions on it But it would be really great if we could start such a discussion....... yes?
Mountain Annie,
I admire your confidence in any sort of system to achieve anything sustainable and positive here for all but a few Haitians.
Even with the best intentions of people like Clinton, I repeat - the usual suspects will make out like bandits and the rest of Haiti will be stuck living in the pxss and the mud.
I would also like to rephrase my "nobody gives a shxt about Haiti or Haitians" comment.
I should have said that nobody who has the opportunity, ability or authority gives enough of a **** about it to actually change anything.
And those that do give enough of a shxt about it (like people donating money) are in no position to make a positive change.
I think Clinton, massively respected, experienced and intelligent as he is, will find himself no match for the Haitian bourgeoisie. They are gong to eat him for breakfast.
Sorry to be so pessimistic but I am sick of reading that things are going to change for the better for Haitians - because as far as I can make out - they are going to stay largely the same.
Let us meet again on this thread in 1 year's time and see what has been achieved for majority of Haitian people.
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I admire your confidence in any sort of system to achieve anything sustainable and positive here for all but a few Haitians.
Even with the best intentions of people like Clinton, I repeat - the usual suspects will make out like bandits and the rest of Haiti will be stuck living in the pxss and the mud.
I would also like to rephrase my "nobody gives a shxt about Haiti or Haitians" comment.
I should have said that nobody who has the opportunity, ability or authority gives enough of a **** about it to actually change anything.
And those that do give enough of a shxt about it (like people donating money) are in no position to make a positive change.
I think Clinton, massively respected, experienced and intelligent as he is, will find himself no match for the Haitian bourgeoisie. They are gong to eat him for breakfast.
Sorry to be so pessimistic but I am sick of reading that things are going to change for the better for Haitians - because as far as I can make out - they are going to stay largely the same.
Let us meet again on this thread in 1 year's time and see what has been achieved for majority of Haitian people.
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I just read this thread from the beginning and I have changed my mind.
Scratch all that whining I wrote!!
If people like me think like I have posted then there really is a problem.
I am supposed to be pro-Haiti.
I need to get down the Olaffson, have some rum punch, listen to some music, talk to some people and get happy again.
I do not have the missus here to give me a slap when I become morose - that is the problem.
Scratch all that whining I wrote!!
If people like me think like I have posted then there really is a problem.
I am supposed to be pro-Haiti.
I need to get down the Olaffson, have some rum punch, listen to some music, talk to some people and get happy again.
I do not have the missus here to give me a slap when I become morose - that is the problem.
Respect does not equal production.
Politicians are politicians.
What Haiti needs is a real US General in control, not politicians. Politicans gum up the works.
How about McChrystal? He has some time on his hands.
YES-- indeed --rum punches all around.. But perhaps the Olaffson is not the best place to talk of recovery since Richard is really too much on the side of the people. Perhaps best to stay in Petionville....
Seriously - you know as well as I do that this goudougoudou has driven Haiti to her knees and even the rich can see that things have to change.
Hope is all that Haiti has.
So you do indeed have a responsibility to keep that alive.
A US general - what is he going to do ?
Shoot people?
For what?
For example, the rich here do not need anything to change - they are rich already and continue to get richer.
They break no laws that you could shoot them for and few laws that you could lock them up for.
If the aid money does not arrive because conditions on transparency and corruption are not met then they do not care.
If the conditions are met and the money arrives then they are going to be first in line to be given it.
It is a win / win situation for them.
There is no great crime problem here - just the usual hoodlums that you have anywhere. MINUSTAH see to it that the violence does not explode too much.
Prey tell, what exactly would a general do?
At whom would he point his guns?
Shoot people?
For what?
For example, the rich here do not need anything to change - they are rich already and continue to get richer.
They break no laws that you could shoot them for and few laws that you could lock them up for.
If the aid money does not arrive because conditions on transparency and corruption are not met then they do not care.
If the conditions are met and the money arrives then they are going to be first in line to be given it.
It is a win / win situation for them.
There is no great crime problem here - just the usual hoodlums that you have anywhere. MINUSTAH see to it that the violence does not explode too much.
Prey tell, what exactly would a general do?
At whom would he point his guns?
The Olafsson is perfect exactly because Richard is on the side of the people.
I actually live in Delmas (the posh end, you understand
) and the people in Petionville are exactly the ones who were making me disillusioned.And besides, the Olafsson is red-zoned for most of the NGOs, UN and happy clappers who are filling my head full of nonsense.
And you know what? I always thought that Richard could be much more than a 'musician and inn-keeper' in Haiti.
I wish he hadn't stopped expressing himself.
I do not know anybody that lives below Petionville that disagrees with him.
The Olafsson is perfect exactly because Richard is on the side of the people.
I actually live in Delmas (the posh end, you understand
And besides, the Olafsson is red-zoned for most of the NGOs, UN and happy clappers who are filling my head full of nonsense.
And you know what? I always thought that Richard could be much more than a 'musician and inn-keeper' in Haiti.
I wish he hadn't stopped expressing himself.
I do not know anybody that lives below Petionville that disagrees with him.
I agree with him most of the time -- but when I have read his posts on how Haitians are treated in the DR, then I start to wonder about his take on things.
You cannot rebuild Haiti without the bourgeousise -- they are the ones (along with Digicell and you,) who know how to run businesses.
Nore does the class warfare line have much hope in Haiti . as in been there done that
But perhaps it will help to remember that the NGOs really need to keep the poor poor...
Chin up, Pedro!
It's clear you don't understand what a general really is: a highly trained, well-disciplined executive of the highest caliber
cheeky::bunny who has been promoted to that level by a track record of actually producing results, not talk.There has been six months of talking already.
Great - so that is what a general is.
What is he/she going to do exactly?
Annie,
Yeah, but he is a musician and we all write protest songs....
What is he/she going to do exactly?
Annie,
Yeah, but he is a musician and we all write protest songs....
pedro maybe this will help you understand.
2 Resumes
General McChrystal Biography
Commander, International Security Assistance Force/
Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan
United States Army
SOURCE OF COMMISSIONED SERVICE: USMA EDUCATIONAL DEGREES
United States Military Academy - BS - No Major
United States Naval War College - MA - National Security and Strategic Studies
Salve Regina University - MS - International Relations
MILITARY SCHOOLS ATTENDED:
Infantry Officer Basic and Advanced Courses
United States Naval Command and Staff College
Senior Service College Fellowship Harvard University
FOREIGN LANGUAGES:
Spanish
PROMOTIONS DATE OF APPOINTMENT:
2LT 2 Jun 76
1LT 2 Jun 78
CPT 1 Aug 80
MAJ 1 Jul 87
LTC 1 Sep 92
COL 1 Sep 96
BG 1 Jan 01
MG 1 May 04
LTG 16 Feb 06
GEN 11 Jun 09
FROM TO ASSIGNMENT:
Nov 76 Feb 78 Weapons Platoon Leader, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Feb 78 Jul 78 Rifle Platoon Leader, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Jul 78 Nov 78 Executive Officer, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Nov 78 Apr 79 Student, Special Forces Officer Course, Special Forces School, Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Apr 79 Jun 80 Commander, Detachment A, A Company, 1st Battalion, 7th Special Forces Group (Airborne), Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Jun 80 Feb 81 Student, Infantry Officer Advanced Course, United States Army Infantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia
Feb 81 Mar 82 S2/S3 (Intelligence/Operations), United Nations Command Support Group Joint Security Area, Korea
Mar 82 Nov 82 Training Officer, Directorate of Plans and Training, A Company, Headquarters Command, Fort Stewart, Georgia
Nov 82 Sep 84 Commander, A Company, 3d Battalion, 19th Infantry, 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized), Fort Stewart, Georgia
Sep 84 Sep 85 S3 (Operations), 3d Battalion, 19th Infantry, 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized), Fort Stewart, Georgia
Sep 85 Jan 86 Liaison Officer, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Jan 86 May 87 Commander, A Company, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
May 87 Apr 88 Liaison Officer, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Apr 88 Jun 89 S3 (Operations), 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Jun 89 Jun 90 Student, Command and Staff Course, United States Naval War College, Newport, Rhode Island
Jun 90 Apr 93 Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina and OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia
Apr 93 Nov 94 Commander, 2d Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Nov 94 Jun 96 Commander, 2d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Lewis, Washington
Jun 96 Jun 97 Senior Service College Fellowship, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts
Jun 97 Aug 99 Commander, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Aug 99 Jun 00 Military Fellow, Council on Foreign Relations, New York, New York
Jun 00 Jun 01 Assistant Division Commander (Operations), 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Commander, Combined Joint Task Force Kuwait, Camp Doha, Kuwait
Jun 01 Jul 02 Chief of Staff, XVIII Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING
FREEDOM, Afghanistan
Jul 02 Sep 03 Vice Director for Operations, J3, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC
Sep 03 Feb 06 Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Feb 06 Jun 08 Commander, Joint Special Operations Command/Commander, Joint Special Operations Command Forward, United States Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Aug 08 Jun 09 Director, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC
Jun 09 Present Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan
SUMMARY OF JOINT ASSIGNMENTS:
S2/S3 (Intelligence/Operations), United Nations Command Support Group Joint Security Area, Korea (Feb 81-Mar 82, Captain)
Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina and OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia Jun 90-Apr 93 Major/Lieutenant Colonel)
Chief of Staff, XVIII Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 01-Jul 02, Brigadier General)
Vice Director for Operations, J3, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC (Jul 02-Sep 03, Brigadier General)
Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina (Sep 03-Feb 06, Brigadier General/Major General)
Commander, Joint Special Operations Command/Commander, Joint Special Operations
Command Forward, United States Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina (Feb 06-Jun 08, Major General/Lieutenant General)
Director, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC (Aug 08-Jun 09, Lieutenant General)
Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 09-Present, General)
SUMMARY OF OPERATIONS ASSIGNMENTS DATE GRADE
Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia (Jun 90-Mar 91, Major)
Commander, Combined Joint Task Force Kuwait, Camp Doha, Kuwait (Apr 01-Jun 01, Brigadier General)
Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (May 02-Jul 02, Brigadier General)
Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 09- Present, General)
US DECORATIONS AND BADGES:
Defense Distinguished Service Medal
Defense Superior Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)
Legion of Merit (with 2 Oak Leaf Clusters)
Bronze Star Medal
Defense Meritorious Service Medal
Meritorious Service Medal (with 3 Oak Leaf Clusters)
Army Commendation Medal
Army Achievement Medal
Expert Infantryman Badge
Master Parachutist Badge
Ranger Tab
Special Forces Tab
Joint Chiefs of Staff Identification Badge
_________________________________________________________________
Obama Biography:
Birthplace: Location remains questionable. Proof of United States Citizenship hasn't been provided.
Education: Columbia University, Harvard Law School. Records never produced, attendance remains questionable.
Military Career: None
Business Career: None
Political Career: Community organizer, Chicago, 1983-86; civil rights attorney, Chicago, 1991-96;
University of Chicago, lecturer, early 1990s-2004; Illinois State Senator, 1996-2005; U.S. Senator, 2005-2008; President 2008-.
____________________________________________________________________
I believe the wrong guy resigned.
Correct elcellent CV and with that training anything you would want him to. no need to be specific. any thing from rebuilding or building infrastructure to running the government! Think MacArthur and Japan.
United States Military Academy - BS - No Major
United States Naval War College - MA - National Security and Strategic Studies
Salve Regina University - MS - International Relations
MILITARY SCHOOLS ATTENDED:
Infantry Officer Basic and Advanced Courses
United States Naval Command and Staff College
Senior Service College Fellowship Harvard University
That soldier is no longer a soldier, having submitted his resignation after the publication of this article The Runaway General | Rolling Stone Politics
Seemed to have a bit of a problem with the civilian control of the military.
I suppose that his plan for Haiti would be to resurrect Papa Doc.
Seemed to have a bit of a problem with the civilian control of the military.
I suppose that his plan for Haiti would be to resurrect Papa Doc.