Charlie Rose - Update on Haiti

[pedrochemical]

But everybody is avoiding my question.

So he is superman - great!
He can do anything - great!

So what specifically is he going to do in Haiti?

 

[cobraboy]

That soldier is no longer a soldier, having submitted his resignation after the publication of this article The Runaway General | Rolling Stone Politics

Seemed to have a bit of a problem with the civilian control of the military.

I suppose that his plan for Haiti would be to resurrect Papa Doc.

MA, my bestest friend on the planet is a retired full colonel, a West Point grad, from the US Army. Westies maintain a lifetime relationship to past, current and future military matters and people, especially the Officer Corp. I refer to him as "Col. Bruce." Bruce was in charge of material and service logistics in Operation Restore Democracy in Haiti for 18 months, responsible for feeding, watering and sanitary conditions of all 25,000+ soldiers in Haiti during that period, no small job.

He sent me this article with the cover of "we (CB: west Point alum) all agree this makes perfect sense."

The General and the Community Organizer

McChrystal is no renegade loose-liped lame brain; his resume is impeccable. What that reporter from the RS wrote was FED to him with specific intention.

General McChrystal and his top officers are not simple-minded, knuckle-dragging brutes. To the contrary, they are intelligent, thoughtful, highly educated, patriots? graduates of West Point and other fine universities? who are dedicated to duty, honor, and country. To think that such men would be so careless as to speak unflatteringly of Obama, Biden, and other top administration figures, in the presence of a reporter for a notoriously left wing publication, defies logic? at the very least. To think that men who are trained to be careful and deliberate in everything they do, could do something so careless and so unguarded is simply beyond comprehension.

I would argue that McChrystal and his aides knew exactly what they were doing.

~snip~

But what is now lost in all of the hand-wringing and speculation is the fact that McChrystal and his people have succeeded in doing exactly what they set out to do. They wanted to plant the seed in the minds of the American people that Obama is not up to the task of being Commander in Chief and that he does not command the respect of the men and women of the uniformed services? from the newest Private E-1 up to the top four-star generals and admirals.

Note that the first thing Petraeus is doing is changing the Rules of Engagement. Westies speculate it was the #1 condition he put on Obama on taking the job.

An officers #1 concern is the safety of his charges. Keep in mind that McChrystal asked for troop increases for Afghanistan when Obama took over. Obama dithered for months and finally allowed HALF of the troops requested. Methinks that was the beginning of the end for the good general and his relationship with the Community Organizer in Chief.



And to pedro: a general would offer Command and Control leadership. He would focus on the task at hand and results, not talk and bureaucratic process.

Career bureaucrats despise that type of leadership because the focus is not process...the very thing that keep bureaucrats and middle managers employed...but on results. The last thing a bureaucrat wants to be judges on is results.

And what Haiti needs is results.

 

[cobraboy]

So what specifically is he going to do in Haiti?

Shift the focus from bureaucratic/political process to results.

Either that changes or in another six months from now we look back and see that after an entire year almost nothing has actually been done, few hard results, in Haiti.

But bureaucrats won't have missed one paycheck.

 

[mountainannie]

All discussions of McChristal aside-- really.. since we all know that a US occupation of Haiti is not going to happen....

The only military which has been authorized in Haiti are the peacekeepihg forces of the UN..

The ONLY thing that is happening in Haiti is the CIRT...

 

[cobraboy]

All discussions of McChristal aside-- really.. since we all know that a US occupation of Haiti is not going to happen....

The only military which has been authorized in Haiti are the peacekeepihg forces of the UN..

The ONLY thing that is happening in Haiti is the CIRT...

Agreed.

Folks solicit opinions about what to do in Haiti.

Mine is to fundamentally change to focus on the "what" and "how."

But it won't happen, Haiti will be painfully slow to recover, the money will continue to get ****ed away, and bureaucrats will continue to harrrumph harrrumph in endless meetings writing endless resolutions and rules.

And the world will wonder why...

I'm out.

 

[RonS]

Shift the focus from bureaucratic/political process to results.

I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with that. And I agree that the criteria for the leaders of the effort should ideally possess the qualities that most general officers have already domonstrated [McCrystal's disrespect ot civilian leadership of the military is very disturbing in spite of his settlar CV, and the potential that he would be an excellent candidate for a leadership role in Haiti]. However this shakes out, it seems to me that this current window of opportunity for Haiti's recovery, and political and economic development should not be missed, and particularly should not be missed as a result of a mess of bureaucratic nonsense and government by NGO's.

 

[mountainannie]

http://www.cirh.ht/resources/IHRC_Position_Spec_En.pdf

is the job description for the Executive Director of the Commission --

in case you should run into him/her

maybe you should send it to Col. Bob?


I am sure that Haitians would support anyone who is about getting the job done.

 

[pedrochemical]

So the answers to what is he going to do are -

• Change focus.
• Results not Process.
• Focus on the task at hand and results, not talk and bureaucratic process.

Well that is just fine but it sounds like you should print in out in quadruplicate and shove it where the money don't shine.


But WTF would he actually do!!!!!!


I need stuff like -

• Build a road from x to y with money from z.
• Get everyone out of bed in the morning and have them pick up litter.
• Install water pipes for x & y.
• Provoke action group x in to setting car bomb y killing people a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,o.....

 

[RonS]

http://www.cirh.ht/resources/IHRC_Position_Spec_En.pdf ... I am sure that Haitians would support anyone who is about getting the job done.

Any ideas or suggestions as to possible candidates [other than Gen. McCrystal, that is]?

 

[pedrochemical]

Any ideas or suggestions as to possible candidates [other than Gen. McCrystal, that is]?

Again, that job is sitting on a committee?

Does nobody see the irony in the last couple of pages of this thread?

 

[bienamor]

That soldier is no longer a soldier, having submitted his resignation after the publication of this article The Runaway General | Rolling Stone Politics

Seemed to have a bit of a problem with the civilian control of the military.

I suppose that his plan for Haiti would be to resurrect Papa Doc.

Have huge respect for you, but on this one your leading with your left.

I think he may have had problemswith the orders he was given as they were contrary to logic. Civilians should not attempt to fight the war (Korea Vietnam) they should leave it to the people trained to do so. All you have to do is look at Korea, 60 years later and still a cease fire and a thorn in side of the world.

Normally the last thing a Military man wants is a war. Unlike civilians they KNOW that people die. As their first responsibility is for the men under them they tend to what to get it overwith, not drag it out. God help us if the current group of world leaders had been in charge of WWII.

 

[RonS]

There are a great number of executives who are quite adept at leading in a structure which has a board of directors and other stake holders. That's what CEO's do. If the recovery effort and the redevelopment of Haiti is to be successful and produce the kind of results we all want, then the person who is chosen for the position of Exec. Direc. of the IHRC is critical. US Presidents have been very successful, in my view, at chosing such people for positions in government agencies and White House staff, and Bill Clinton is no exception. No doubt Clinton will have great influence over who will be appointed to this position, if indeed, its not solely his call.

 

[pedrochemical]

Committees - meetings - councils - resolutions - discussions - everything that Cobraboy objects to. And I see his point.
OK - give it a whirl - but I am still not feeling it....

And on a side-subject;
There is little money to spend anyway - only 5-10% of what was pledged has been given and most of that is in debt releif - debt that they did not pay anyway.
When a country does finally actually give the money they pledged they do not actually give it at all.
For example - the Dutch (my favourite European country) pledged an amount. Some of this will be factored in debt releif. A large portion will go to a Dutch NGO who are supposed to be installing pre-fab houses around Port au Prince. No houses have been installed yet. But even when they eventually get round to starting, the people involved in this particular NGO are Dutch. They get paid Euros into their Dutch bank accounts. They pay their tax in Holland. They rent overpriced apartments of Haitian expats who are living in Miami of the proceeds of the houses they rent. They have around 1000 Euros perdiem in country per month. That will be spent locally but probably at the Arab owned supermarkets, Dominican owned bars and French owned restaurants. So of the vast amount pledged, virtually nothing goes to Haitians and as I have said they have built absolutely nothing yet.
I will not name the NGO as that would be rude and they will not see this post to be able to defend themselves. But this is a continuing theme in Haiti. One hopes that if and when they do build something they will use Haitian labour. Hopefully even drawing some of the illegal Haitian immigrants back from the D.R.

How would the general fix these issues?

 

[mountainannie]

So the answers to what is he going to do are -

• Change focus.
• Results not Process.
• Focus on the task at hand and results, not talk and bureaucratic process.

Well that is just fine but it sounds like you should print in out in quadruplicate and shove it where the money don't shine.


But WTF would he actually do!!!!!!


I need stuff like -

• Build a road from x to y with money from z.
• Get everyone out of bed in the morning and have them pick up litter.
• Install water pipes for x & y.
• Provoke action group x in to setting car bomb y killing people a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,o.....

Pedro - there are only about 100 pages posted on that website - both the plan from the government of Haiti and the economic plan from some business leaders --- I get the sense that you have not read them
'
Please read them -- then post

 

[mountainannie]

Have huge respect for you, but on this one your leading with your left.

I think he may have had problemswith the orders he was given as they were contrary to logic. Civilians should not attempt to fight the war (Korea Vietnam) they should leave it to the people trained to do so. All you have to do is look at Korea, 60 years later and still a cease fire and a thorn in side of the world.

Normally the last thing a Military man wants is a war. Unlike civilians they KNOW that people die. As their first responsibility is for the men under them they tend to what to get it overwith, not drag it out. God help us if the current group of world leaders had been in charge of WWII.

Frank - this subject is completely off topic.

And really it is hard for me to think about having an intelligent discussion when you express doubts that Obama was not born in Hawaii

or that he did not go to Harvard -

where he was the head of Law Review.

Now I am as willing to go with conspiracies as the next guy - probably more than most of you -- (although now there are an estimatedf 40% of US citizens who do not believe the official JKF story)

I agree that his resume was light -- but he is now elected.. and that

is
that

 

[pedrochemical]

Pedro - there are only about 100 pages posted on that website - both the plan from the government of Haiti and the economic plan from some business leaders --- I get the sense that you have not read them
'
Please read them -- then post

I have scanned through a lot of that stuff.
It is still a little nebulous.
Forgive me for being skeptical but that is born of experience.

 

[mountainannie]

I have scanned through a lot of that stuff.
It is still a little nebulous.
Forgive me for being skeptical but that is born of experience.[/QU

you are right, Pedro

it is nebulous - just goals

you are on the ground there

what are you hearing?

any practical plans?

the only real practical thing I have heard of coming up from the people is the protest against the Monsanto seeds...

Of course, you cannot expect people who are living in displacement camps to have any ideas beyond getting shelter.

The only plan that I saw for shelter was to building housing for 500,000 in Ft Liberte.

 

[bienamor]

Frank - this subject is completely off topic.

And really it is hard for me to think about having an intelligent discussion when you express doubts that Obama was not born in Hawaii

or that he did not go to Harvard -

where he was the head of Law Review.

Now I am as willing to go with conspiracies as the next guy - probably more than most of you -- (although now there are an estimatedf 40% of US citizens who do not believe the official JKF story)

I agree that his resume was light -- but he is now elected.. and that

is
that

As its not dr related, we can continue at dinner some night at the mexican place in the little park ok.

 

[mountainannie]

As its not dr related, we can continue at dinner some night at the mexican place in the little park ok.

dinner is fine -- but perhaps we had best stay off that particular topic, ok?

 

[Gabriela]

Proposed free zones in Haiti

According to DemocracyNow.org, the Clinton plan for Haiti is large Korean-run free zones. Kind of like gated communities for the poor where they get to work for peanuts. This would have horrible implications for the agricultural economy of Haiti and would probably impact the DR, since Haitian free zones would no doubt be cheaper.