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Chinese automobiles in DR - Run away or good alternative?
The US and Canadian 100% tariffs on Chinese manufactured EV’s make this all the more interesting. I think US and Canadian consumers want access to less expensive EV’s. There is less of an incentive in the US to buy North American EV’s because of much higher costs and even more so in Canada because the Canadian government just ended the $5000 rebate on new EV purchases. I expect the US and Canadian tariffs to come down over time.
China is very adept at getting around tariffs and embargo’s. Trump is concerned about Mexico being used as a way to get cheap Chinese EV’s into North America. I doubt it but who knows now that the incoming administration is taking a softer view of Chinese competition. There’s a lot of money to be made here by any country willing to assist China with their North American marketing strategy. The Chinese have already made economic inroads in the DR. Imagine the financial boon to the DR if the Chinese built an EV final assembly plant and the DR was a transshipment point for the North American market. Pure speculation but stranger things have happened.
I would not worry about Chinese cars coming into the US via Mexico and under the free trade agreement as a way to avoid tariffs.
Biden has just instituted regulations banning all cars from China from entering the US under the guise of national security......think the tik tok ban set to take effect tomorrow unless delayed. The deployment of the Chinese car ban will be left to President Trump.
The DR will remain a strong market for Chinese autos as the Chinese have way over produced and need to export to maintain their economy. They apparently did not learn their lesson when they also massively over built housing and created virtual ghost cities in China.
Other countries and the EU will impose huge tariffs in an attempt to thwart the Chinese from "dumping" and may well follow the US lead in utilizing national security as a pretext to stop those imports.
Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
Same happened in Germany. The EV boom was something insane, now it's calming down and it's been discussed if cars with internal combustion engine would have a "comeback" as the govt ended the subsidies... I have driven a EV compact car and a Chinese SUV what was EV. I enjoy driving them, very smooth and accelerate like a dream, but in particular with family organizing the vehicle to be recharged in longer trips is too much for me. Not only you have to find where to recharge, but it also takes time to recharge. If you're on time pressure, it does not help. Those two EVs were rentals, currently driving the family petrol Ford from 2005 and loving it...
Drove one of the first Toyota Prius models to enter Canada years ago. It was at our emissions lab in Ottawa. It was impressive for a first generation vehicle. Fast forward to today and I drove a Ford Escape hybrid for two weeks. A rental while my car was being repaired. Clunky as hell. Was not impressed. Tested a Toyota RAV EV and it was smooth as silk. The RAV electric running gear is also used on the Mazda CX-5. I’m on my third CX-5 (gas) and I’d seriously consider buying the gas/hybrid plug in model for my next car.
Our geographical area is large and distances between cities very long. Longest drive is 1100 kms. Add cold winters and the mileage on a full charge drops quite a bit. At least two recharges would be needed for our longest drive.
If hydrogen powered vehicles are viable, I’d opt for one of those instead of an EV type. Toyota has been manufacturing them for years and BMW just developed a rock solid hydrogen fueled vehicle engine. The DR already has propane storage infrastructure and refill stations country wide. Wouldn’t take much to add hydrogen dispensers. About 30 seconds to refuel and mileage comparable to a gasoline powered car. No pollution. Just a bit of water coming out the tailpipe.
EVs are so overbuilt there are many thousands of old and unsold now in China being dismantled and the metal crushed for recycle. I'm not sure what good batteries are after sitting unused for such a long time
PC2.
Legislation can be repealed and consumer demand can be a powerful motivator to repeal it. The incoming administration appears to be taking a softer approach to Chinese competition. China’s president, and the owner of TikTok, are invited to Trumps inauguration. Trump wants to save Tick-tock despite the security risks to the US. Trump wants to visit China shortly after he assumes power. China is getting a low preferential 10% tariff rate. Signs that Trump wants a better trading relationship with China.
If Trump perceives Biden’s legislation to be a barrier to bringing manufacturing and jobs to the US, it will be tossed out quickly. China can easily gain access to US EV markets by setting up an assembly plant in the US. Trump is an opportunist. If he sees a chance to expand US manufacturing, reduce the cost of vehicles for US customers, and add good paying jobs, he will jump at that opportunity. I think future US consumer demand will decide if cheaper Chinese EV’s will be available in the US. The addiction to Chinese produced consumer goods already exists in the US. The Chinese EV industry can easily build on that.
The same could happen in Canada. We’re due for a change of government and all eligible candidates are saying their focus will be on restoring the Canadian economy. The Canadian EV industry is sputtering and the government is still pushing EV sales to reduce fossil fuel consumption. They may be forced to allow cheaper Chinese EV sales in Canada to achieve their climate change objectives.
I wouldn’t place a lot of faith in Biden’s legislation because politics is fickle. Markets and consumers even more so.
EV demand is sparked by legislation, such as mandating non-polluting cars like EVs, and rebates in such locales. In my home country, Trump is going to BAN the EV mandates and it remains to bee seen what happens to rebates. EVs are way too expensive.
I don't see Chinese cars in the US during Trump's time in office if for no other reason than they are not made up to the US safety standards.
I don't see Chinese cars in the US during Trump's time in office if for no other reason than they are not made up to the US safety standards.
Meeting US DOT standards is easy for China. If they have an opportunity to make inroads in the US EV market, they will do it. To get around the other issues that give them a competitive edge, cheaper wages, they simply build a final assembly plant in one the states suffering economic hardship.
EV’s produced in North America, as you say, are way to expensive. Chinese produced commuter EV’s are cheap. There is demand in the US for these. Toyota Prius, Nissan Leaf. I agree with banning the EV mandates and allowing the auto industry to develop and manufacture more fuel efficient less polluting vehicles. I’m guessing the new administration in Canada will do the same thing but there is still a demand for inexpensive commuter EV’s.
The new US administration will keep the price of gas artificially low for US consumers for the next four years. Beyond that who knows and crude oil prices will continue to increase, especially If a trade war develops over tariffs between the US and the countries that supply it with crude oil. OPEC will continue to restrict supply to keep the price high. A small commuter EV parked in your driveway is not a bad idea.
Interesting point I saw recently, was that despite the fact that EVs are principally marketed as being more green than regular vehicles with internal combustion engine, the manufacturing of the EVs actually causes much more damage to the environment than manufacturing of normal cars (a bit older ones). So even though they run with electricity, the whole manufacturing process is horrible compared to the regular cars in terms of green thinking. In particular the processes of manufacturing and obtaining the required batteries.
Which is why the transition to hydrogen powered vehicles makes more sense. Manufacturing plants already in place, no new battery technology required, and hydrogen, a common readily available element, is easily extractable by drilling or electrolysis. No increased demand on the power grid unless it’s produced by electrolysis. Refills in seconds so no waiting hours for a recharge. Also easily integrated into the DR propane supply infrastructure.
My home country could produce all the fossil fuels it needs and was recently energy independent and selling to other countries.
Drill baby drill and burn baby burn..
One could say that gasoline is artificially low in the USA because of low taxes. They like it that way....
I would say the rest of the world including the DR has artificially high prices on gasoline because of very high taxes, but that is just me.
DOT is easy, you don't say. I have no idea on that. Bring on the crash test dummies.
The link below shows some crash test results for Chinese vehicles:
www.cieauto.com
Who conducted those tests and how they were conducted will obviously affect the ratings.
Note that all Chinese vehicles currently sold in the EU must be tested by Euro N-CAP, but that those Chinese vehicles are built for that market and to pass those tests. Chinese automobiles built for sale elsewhere (Latin America) may not be and are most likely not built and designed as carefully.
Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
30 Popular Cars Crash Test Results: Best and Worst Performers Among Chinese Brands
Discover the crash test results of 30 popular cars, highlighting the best and worst performers. See how Chinese models like AITO M7 and Changan Qiyuan A05 performed in key safety tests, including frontal, rear-end, and truck underride collisions.
www.cieauto.com
Who conducted those tests and how they were conducted will obviously affect the ratings.
Note that all Chinese vehicles currently sold in the EU must be tested by Euro N-CAP, but that those Chinese vehicles are built for that market and to pass those tests. Chinese automobiles built for sale elsewhere (Latin America) may not be and are most likely not built and designed as carefully.
Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
Just need some of the multitude of "chino" stores to put in automotive aisles...problem solved!
I would say you're right. I don't know where the taxes go in the DR but in the EU they go to financing a lot of stuff. But yet, the amount of tax included in the price of fuels and electricity is very high. We buy our electricity with the power-exchange pricing and always when there's a lot of green energy available, 70-80 % of our electricity bill goes to the state in taxes, not to the producer...
If they are of the same quality as their other articles, for the sake of security on the road, I would steer clear of those aisles...Just need some of the multitude of "chino" stores to put in automotive aisles...problem solved!
Profit margins are important to oil refineries. Yes the exploration and production companies could ramp up production but they can’t compete with lower priced oil from other countries, especially Canada. Much bigger profit margins for the refiners and it’s all about the money Windy. Biden relied on US oil reserves to keep prices low. That only works for a while.
You’re correct about the taxes on fuel being lower in the US. Our soon to be new administration is expected to eliminate the carbon tax on gas and home heating fuels. It’s been contentious since it was implemented and costs us a lot at the pumps. It’s a tax on a tax and will drop the price of gas for us a lot. Good riddance!
It is ALWAYS about the money for businesses. But there is more to it than just the price. Oil has different variants and the correct variant plays a part in the decisions.
The US produces enough oil in quantity for its needs, some of it is just the wrong kind/quality for how the refineries have been set up so it has to purchase the correct kinds from other parts of the world that are more compatible with the current refineries. Light , sweet as I understand it is used. Thank the gods Biden , the senile old fart, is gone as of tomorrow. It will now be time to drill, baby, drill land perhaps that issue can be solved.
The DR will keep its taxes up on gasoline while providing subsidized propane.... At least the Great White North is rid of the douche bag they had in charge.
As said previously, I'm all for protecting the environment and all related things, but everything within reason and it's important to prioritize. Currently it's heavily in the news that both, gas for the car and gas for the heating in EU will be subject to the ever more expensive CO2 tax. I find this all ridiculous as in the end, that's away from the families, as you cannot really house your kids in a cold house. The CO2 zero thinking is just insane. Rather, not the thinking but the goals and measures and whatnot. Meanwhile, there are countries that really pollute our planet, and the same air/atmosphere, and there's really nothing I can do about that.
I'm happy to hear if the carbon tax will be treated like that in the US. We will be purchasing solar panels to our roof in the future, but my priority is keeping the house warm not just when it's sunny or windy but also during the night and I don't want it to cost a fortune to make that happen. None of us are energy wasters, but if for normal usage you have to be overly cautious in order for your energy bill not to go collections, something is wrong...