Ciguatera

[canadian bob]

With the "holiday season" approaching and a huge influx of tourists from all over the world, it is useful for all salt-water-fish-eaters to remember/be aware of this problem in the Caribbean & elsewhere. While Dominican Doctors are aware of ciguatera symptoms/immediate treatment required, few Canadian/American/European Doctors are knowledgable in this regard.
It behooves us to assist those with pertinent symptoms, so that they may get proper treatment in the DR and on their return to their home-country.
There is a wealth of data in the DR1 Archives and especially at Ciguatera: Fish Poisoning - The name may be difficult to remember. But if you get this disease, you'll never forget it
NB! There is now an emergency "Hotline" 305-361-4619 (or 305-661-0774)
Submitted for your consideration. Canadian Bob

 

[planner]

I'm glad you are posting this warning. I have a friend here who was effected along with her boyfriend. She was very very ill with this and had some symptoms last for months. The reverse of hot and cold sensations was especially difficult for her to deal with.

I was told that when there is red tide in Florida we should not eat the fish here. Do you know if that is true or just an old wives tale?

I did a cut and paste from the link of the pertinent symptoms:



***Today a typical scenario would include a delicious family fish dinner at the evening meal, perhaps applauding the successful fisherperson and the culinary skills of the cook. Several hours later (and always in the wee hours of the morning) the rather sudden onset of gastrointestinal complaints awakens one after another of the fish-feasters. Nausea, vomiting, cramping, abdominal pain, and diarrhea suggest that perhaps the fish was spoiled.

Intense itching, joint and muscle pain, tingling of the lips, burning or pain when cold liquids are touched or drank will usually bring at least the more affected victims to the emergency room, later to find most if not all the others who also enjoyed the fish were variably affected. With the exception of ice applied to the tongue or fingertips being interpreted as a burning sensation, there are no clinical signs.

 

[bienamor]

The old saying is

I'm glad you are posting this warning. I have a friend here who was effected along with her boyfriend. She was very very ill with this and had some symptoms last for months. The reverse of hot and cold sensations was especially difficult for her to deal with.

I was told that when there is red tide in Florida we should not eat the fish here. Do you know if that is true or just an old wives tale?

I did a cut and paste from the link of the pertinent symptoms:



***Today a typical scenario would include a delicious family fish dinner at the evening meal, perhaps applauding the successful fisherperson and the culinary skills of the cook. Several hours later (and always in the wee hours of the morning) the rather sudden onset of gastrointestinal complaints awakens one after another of the fish-feasters. Nausea, vomiting, cramping, abdominal pain, and diarrhea suggest that perhaps the fish was spoiled.

Intense itching, joint and muscle pain, tingling of the lips, burning or pain when cold liquids are touched or drank will usually bring at least the more affected victims to the emergency room, later to find most if not all the others who also enjoyed the fish were variably affected. With the exception of ice applied to the tongue or fingertips being interpreted as a burning sensation, there are no clinical signs.

Don't eat fish in the months without an R, Then should be save?

 

[A.Hidalgo]

Don't eat fish in the months without an R, Then should be save?

????????

Sources please.

 

[zoomzx11]

fish poisioning

If you avoid the large predator fish and do not eat any fish organs there is little danger. The toxin is eaten by the smaller fish living near and on the coral reefs. The larger fish (Barracudas especially) consume large numbers of the smaller fish and concentrate the poison. Eating the smaller grouper, snapper is no problem. All of the pelagics (free swimming) such as tuna, wahoo, dolphin are safe as they do not frequent the reefs. Many times the local fishermen know from experience which reefs contain ciguatera and avoid fishing in those area. One other test works well if your neighbor has a cat (sorry cat lovers). Stick with small fish and you dont need the cat.

 

[canadian bob]

Bienamour, sorry, this is an old wives tale and NOT true.
zoomzx11, You are correct about the pelagics being relatively safe.
Any fish, even small ones speared by "experienced" local fishermen on or near any reefs must be considered suspect.
Also, the symptoms of ciguatera may mimic "Tourista" problems.
As you say, this is a most unpleasant problem.
Beware "fish stew/soup".... Canadian Bob.

 

[gary short]

The don't eat fish during months without an r ruleI believe relates to bivalves and the algae blooms that occur during late spring and summer months in northern latitudes.......clams, oysters, muscles etc and has nothing to do with fish or the warmer latitudes. Post #5 is the real deal.

 

[anitaemma]

What about frozen mero?

 

[Caren M.]

A friend of ours had a terrible experience with fish poisoning. We have since been told that flies will not land on the raw fish if it is contaminated. - It sounds strange but I believe it. If the flies won't go near rhe fish neither should we.

 

[gary short]

Thats a good point unless of coarse its been sprayed with Raid..

 

[canadian bob]

A friend of ours had a terrible experience with fish poisoning. We have since been told that flies will not land on the raw fish if it is contaminated. - It sounds strange but I believe it. If the flies won't go near rhe fish neither should we.

Untrue, as is the tale that ants won't walk over the eyes of a fish containing ciguatoxin. No home antidotes have been found to be useful. Fish which have gone "bad" from improper storage do not otherwise contain ciguatoxins.
Tetradoxidin, the poison causing ciguatera is an exceedingly powerful neurotoxin. Even one forkful of a toxic fish can cause horrific symptoms mostly caused by swelling of the brain, which is the reason that Mannitol (Commonly used in brain surgery to reduce brain swelling) is a primary treatment, along with up/down purging, etc.
Researchers are still trying to produce a fast/cheap field test. Neither cooking nor freezing affects the outcome, which ranges through mild to severe/wheelchair bound. Alcohol generaly increases symptoms. "Red Tides" have not been proven to produce the toxin which is due to a certain dinoflagelate ingested by reef fish.
My original interest in this problem came from disturbing personal observations over several years.
"Tour Reps" and Hotel personnel avoid the subject as they feel it might
adversely affect business. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Canadian Bob.

 

[planner]

Canadian Bob, can you tell us then, when to avoid these fish? OR is it all the time? Living here we have access to fish all year long, I don't know when or if it is ever safe. I don't know one fish from the other. How do I know what I am getting? What do I look for?

Thanks, this thread has been really usefull.

 

[dv8]

just be careful

we always buy our fish in pescaderia close to the flea market, one street down. minovio has been using this place to supply his hotel and family for ages. i guess you have to trust your providers, they will not sell bad fish and they do know a thing or two about their trade!

a person reads so much about all dangers of eating one starts to think it's better not to do so!

in my country every year there are countless cases of funghi poisoning (wild mushroom, you may call them) yet my family has been eating funghi all our lives and nothing has happened. why? because when we go funghi-hunting we know what is good and what is not and in case of doubt we simply do not pick up the mushroom.

 

[canadian bob]

Canadian Bob, can you tell us then, when to avoid these fish? OR is it all the time? Living here we have access to fish all year long, I don't know when or if it is ever safe. I don't know one fish from the other. How do I know what I am getting? What do I look for?

Thanks, this thread has been really usefull.

There is no time-frame for the fish to be "safe".
The only safe fish are those caught in deep water,
away from the reefs, which host the dinoflagellates (macro & micro-algae) causing the problem.
There are some reef fish like Puffers, Porcupine fish, Trigger fish and especially Moray eels which always carry ciguatera. The Morays are always especially virulent. The Japanese Have specially trained Chefs who are licenced to prepare Fugu (Puffer fish). Despite the care used, there are about 50 deaths a year there. Personal importation of fugu into the USA is prohibited.
I have seen local Dominican spear-fishermen taking every type of reef fish, including Triggerfish, Puffers and Trunkfish. They told me they feed the guts to a cat. If it gets sick or dies they don't eat that fish.
Lobsters/langoustas, & shellfish don't carry ciguatoxins.
Hope this helps... Canadian Bob.

 

[Texas Bill]

Don't eat fish in the months without an R, Then should be save?

Bienamor---

That refers to the eating of OYSTERS, MUSSELS, Conch and the like. NOT to the swimming fish.
Ciguitera is prominent in those fish that feed off the CORAL REEFS and to the fish that eat those fish.
Get your facts straight, old son.

 

[bienamor]

No facts

Bienamor---

That refers to the eating of OYSTERS, MUSSELS, Conch and the like. NOT to the swimming fish.
Ciguitera is prominent in those fish that feed off the CORAL REEFS and to the fish that eat those fish.
Get your facts straight, old son.

No facts to it, thats just what I was told when I first moved to Florida, from Indiana. Nobody said anything about shellfish vs fish, just don't eat seafood in the months without an R. Guess one of those old wives tales that I should not repeat?, How about by land by an Orange Grove, not Cypress trees?

 

[Uzin]

This is quite an informative and useful post (for once the symptoms come) but at the same time very scarry - it puts me right off my fish... !

Is there an actual stats for this in DR ? considering most patients should end up in hospital, as it sounds like a terrible disease, there must be good documentation/stats for it. (50 dead in Japan translate to may be one/two in DR considering populations.)

I was really looking forward to pop in to that fish place in Sosua Beach on my next trip for their delicious fish grills, is a 1 or 2 pound red snapper (the only fish I can recognize) fairly safe then.... ?!

 

[canadian bob]

This is quite an informative and useful post (for once the symptoms come) but at the same time very scarry - it puts me right off my fish... !

Is there an actual stats for this in DR ? considering most patients should end up in hospital, as it sounds like a terrible disease, there must be good documentation/stats for it. (50 dead in Japan translate to may be one/two in DR considering populations.)

I was really looking forward to pop in to that fish place in Sosua Beach on my next trip for their delicious fish grills, is a 1 or 2 pound red snapper (the only fish I can recognize) fairly safe then.... ?!

"Fairly safe" is like "Slightly pregnant"! I would advise everyone to avoid ANY fish speared on or near the reefs at any time. Guess where beach vendors get their fish!
I can not find any DR stats on ciguatera victims, sick or worse, but if there was a jar of 1000 delicious looking candies offered to me, and I was told that one was poisoned with cyanide, I sure wouldn't take the risk of eating one! (And I love candies!) Canadian Bob

 

[A.Hidalgo]

Found an informative link from the CDC. Has a page showing some of the culprits.


Harmful Algal Blooms: Ciguatera Fish Poisoning: Home | CDC HSB

 

[gary short]

Found an informative link from the CDC. Has a page showing some of the culprits.


Harmful Algal Blooms: Ciguatera Fish Poisoning: Home | CDC HSB

Excellent link....very informative......proved me wrong about red tides happening in northern climes only..