Considering a move to D-R infos please

Mira

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Jimmydr said:
I think you will need $1500 - $2500 a month minimum.

Monthly
Rent $300 - $400
School $150 - $200
Food $500 - $600
Trans $100
Misc $300
Nanny $100

Just my 2 cents

I hadn't count the school since I was planning on going in the summer time. It's total 9k I planed, without my airfaire and without counting credit cards either. I am just a bit scared to carry $ with me to travel. I try to never bring more than 100-200$ cash and I know it can be hard to access my bank account down there.




Snuffy

Yes, it may seem to you that way, that I don't see clear and I think people are angels. I know that lots of them are thiefs. What I was trying to say by they are nice and smiley, is that they don't throw rocks at you while you walk down the street like some experiences my friend had in Haiti. Maybe I should have just specify that.

As I said in a previous post, my parents keep telling me about child abduction, I think it will take a while before I leave him to a stranger. And for men, I don't plan on dating men, especially down there (no offence pls) but I am not into the macho type. If I want to go down there a while is mostly to share special moments with my son, no need to put a man into it. If I wanted to date someone, I would bring along a boyfriend...

*****

The 4 first months I want to try down there are on summer time, I plan on bringning money to survive, and always enough to get out fast if it's needed. I don't plan on working but mostly looking around to see if a normal life is possible.

Now questions I ask about babysitters, and schools, and work, etc. That is mostly for next year, if I loved my 4months experience and plan on going back for a longer time. That time thought I shouldn't be alone, since my friend thinks of coming with me and her son as well.
 

Mira

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Jimmydr said:
Really, no one in DR searches things. Funny they look at my stuff.
I was in NYC when the Towers came down. Scary.

I can't understand why people would want to work for $350 a month in DR, and live in a shack if they don't have too??


I hadn't see that post. To be totally honest, I was reading the sticky post for Newbies, all the things people were posting about their experience when they got here. It seemed to me that everyone who moved to D-R expected the same life as they had back home. Why? What is interesting about living elsewhere is to live like people do, it's to experience a different culture.

My friend who's gone to live in Playa Del Carmen left 2 years ago, with her pack sack, her then 3 yrs old son and her hammack. Nothing more, nothing less, she planned nothing, had no dineros planed for her trip. She was doing braids on the beach to feed her son. That's a girl who was chief accountant in Montreal, who dumped her job one day and ran away the other. She now lives in a camping in a tent, but she's happy she did the move. She made friends with local families, she helps in their everyday life... She didn't expect electricity, she didn't expect anything at all actually. I think she still does braids on the beach and she works in a local bar. But she's happy to live that cultural difference/adaptation, or whatever you want to call it.

I did the same years ago, but didn't stick to one place, I traveled in South-America, from villages to villages, I did it in a part of India.

For the 1st time I plan a trip and consider bringning money (because I think of sony) but I didn't expect anything less than maybe living with cocroaches and I thought I would be lucky if I had a ba?o and muebles. I wasn't planning to go live in a palace. I leave my country for a poor one, I don't want to live the exact same thing I live everyday. "get up, turn on the light, read a book, drink water off the sink, flush the toilet." What would be the point of traveling if it is to live my exact same life?

It might sound crazy to you, but it is how I see this, and many young "hippies" like me if that's what you want to call it. No material attachement, nothing to remind us of home. That's not for nothing I wanted to leave with a non profit organization, I didn't want to live in a villa, I wanted to live with real people, bring no valuable goods, just us, our clothes and life.

One thing I've learned with my trips is criminality from locals is everywhere where strangers come, colonize and build villas. Everywhere you will go they will have prices for the Gringos and prices for locals, they will try to steal and abuse, but everywhere I went, the day they realise you live exactly like them, and you don't own anything more than them they leave you alone. It's a reality of life in a lot of those places, and anyone's survival insticts would make one do the same.

If it's possible to do that in South America, in Asia, in Eastern Europe, I don't see why D-R would be any different.
 

Voyager

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Mira said:
She was doing braids on the beach to feed her son. That's a girl who was chief accountant in Montreal, who dumped her job one day and ran away the other. She now lives in a camping in a tent, but she's happy she did the move.

I am romantic enough to see the charm in what this woman is doing. I really do. 10 years ago, I travelled through South East Asia, as backpacker, sleeping in very cheap places, eating street food. I let my hair grow into a ponytail and I got myself two ear rings! At the age of 38! Hahaha, latter-day hippie, huh? It is good to rough it a bit, for a time. For a time! Only for a time!

But to live like that? Aaaahhh!? What if your friend gets sick? What if her son gets sick? What if she reads about a new exhibition in The Louvre and wants to see it? (Sorry, but I just had to make that comment!)

Next month, I am going back to South East Asia. I have booked a room at the Mandarin Oriental in Kuala Lumpur. 5 star hotel. One of the best. But I will ALSO bring my back pack and stay in a dirt cheap bungalow on an island. So I get the best of both worlds! Doesn't your friend miss the opportunity to do that?
 

Mira

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I understand it's hard for some people to understand...

What we get in our native countries is gold to many people in 3rd world country. We have everything, we live with all the luxury we can afford, our homes come with washroom included if it doesn't it's not legal, we have elevators, escalators, diswashers, microwaves, electricity 24/7, good water running from our sinks, paper, pensils, clothes, brand names, mp3 players, internet connection, telephones, cell phones, cable, money.... And we use it, enjoy it, WASTE IT with no further consideration than our own little needs. Who gives a rat's *** that the forests are being destroyed for our so sacred little goods and needs, who cares that the water damns are killing mooses and endangered species, as long as we get our electricity easy and working 24/7. Who cares that some fish are dissapearing from our water, as long as we still have caviar, the heck with the dolphins being killed because of the fisherman's nets, as long as we can get our fresh fish at the grocery on a daily basis! What? Nike illegaly employs 7 yrs old from 3 world country? Who cares, they're running shoes look cool!

Our kids are born and raised with playstation, matel toys, walking dolls, talking toys and nowadays, they get cellphones and pagers at age 10, and yet, they just want more. Those kids, my generation included, don't seem to realize (and by reading the Newbie 101 section, some older people don't seem to either) that all those things we take for granted are just material stuff pushed by huges promotionnal campaings to make us buy them so it "simplifies" our busy lifes, so we have more time to give to our employers, who make more money off our backs because the money they give us for all the time we spend working, we're throwing it back at them buying new "necessary" things. My son saw me knitting a scarf, I actually knitted all his baby pajamas, he asked me how come I didn't just go out and buy one, he was even ready to hand over the money...

A 10yrs old, North-American has no idea that 50 yrs ago, half of those things didn't exist, that his great grand-parents had to cook because Mc Donalds didn't serve food 24/7, that somewhere in the world MikyD still doesn't exist. Some of them don't know that vegetables and fruits grows off trees or ground (until they learn it in school) but have they ever seen it with they're own 2 eyes or touch it, or make it grow and pick it themselves? Life is as simple as that to most of the younger generations living today, you need something, get out, take money from the machine (you know, the one that gives out money, there are some at every corner) and buy it! You brush your teeth (with an electric toothbrush, none the less), let the water run for hours, there will always be water!! Water is everywhere! Never heard of anybody not having direct access to water, have you? What about electricity and television? Everybody has at least 2 television sets at home, don't they all? Cable, that's fast food for the brain, it runs all the shows at least 2-3 times a week, 24/7. That is just all so wonderfull!

When I was a kid, we had 2 TV, 1 dishwasher, a microwave, a car, we had Stouffers for diner and Sara Lee for desert. No questions asked there, it's normal, that's from the place where food comes from : the Grocery Store open 24/7, selling all kinds of stuff, easy to buy, make and eat. What a shock when I actually saw my grandmother making her own meatpies. Me who thought they came frozen in a cardboard box... What did you say grand-ma? There was no television when you were young? That must be a joke right? No microwave either? Why do you soak the dishes in the sink? Why don't you just use the dishwasher? Dishwasher didn't exist? What kind of world was that? Huh? You even wash your clothes in the sink and hang it??? What are you doing sowing your holed socks, why don't you just trash them and buy new ones, it's so much simpler?

So we use, trash, buy, all those great things we take for granted. We even go to poor little regions of the globe and we can't even think for 1 little second to cut our habits, bragging to those people's face that we have money, we have electricity 24/7 because we pay for it, we have a television and cable, a microwave, jewelery, all the great GRANTED things money can buy! After all, the whole world owes it to us since we make them work (for lousy salaries and crazy hours, sometimes at really young ages) because we got all the great jobs, and we are the consumers of the things they produce. Be it as simple as the coffee we drink every morning, the mangos that we buy at the super market (which we pay US 1.50$ here, but the guy who picket it had to pick 3tons to make US 9$ and that's a whole day of work), our bananas that every morning a poor little Haitian carries on his donkey's back to the nearest village, at least 3 tons on the donkey's back, 3-4 hours to get there if the donkey moves fast enough... Isn't it wonderfull? Then if it is, why do they want to steal from us? You shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you, right? But what if I bite the hand that brags me his wealth in my face? The jack** who lives in the only house in the neighbourhood that has a jaguar and run electricity 24/7. Should I feel guilty? Not whatsoever!

So electricity cuts every night heh? So no water pressure nor hot water? The computers blow up because of the power surcharge? The roof leaks and no one is repairing it? The frozen beef patties cost mucho dineros at the grocery store and the little salary you get don't let you afford buying it too often? Did you expect USofA, Canada, UK or Germany when you moved down there? It's a 3rd world country, from what I've seen, not any worse, not any better than any other 3rd world country. Deception and frustration is the price to pay to live there if you expected your same great life quality. What do your neighbours do at night when they have no power? Candles? oh..... You can make your own if they are expensive, it's not so hard. What do your neighbours do when they don't have a dryer? Hangning the clothes on the fence.... oh..... And when the ceiling is leaking? A bucket! I hadn't think of that! Do they have TV, computers, cellphones, mp3 players?? What, you mean, they are actually able to live without it? What about the good old toilet that flushes? Huh? Not every appartement has that? How come they live that long? It's all so necessary! :eek:

In a place like a 3rd world country, it's important to be ressourcefull, able to work with your hands, able to cook food, able to adapt to the reality of what locals are living. But I know to many of you, it's all unconceivable!

In a few years from now, Gringos will start complaining at how bad the beaches have become, why aren't they as clean, how come water is not as nice. Quick answer would be that all the previous paradises the irrespectfull, "world owes us all", North American have discovered in the past 30 years now all look like junk yards. :cry:
 

Mira

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el gringo 762 said:
you're nuts. that's it. live doing hair on the beach? crazy, stupid, and that's ok for you, but to put your child through that is wrong.

keep your job, get your head out of your *** and make, save your money for vacations.

read this: i want you to have a good life. i want you to go to the dr and lavida loco, but not when it's like rolling dice. a good life is planning, preperation and action.

it must be the snow up there. "all work and no play makes jack a dull boy". make a three year plan. go on a vacation every year see the coutry. get on the internet and look at work opp's, plan, plan, plan. your child should not have to grow up with anymore stress than they already have.

during that time: unless you bored daddy to death with your blah, blah, blah get his sorry *** involved with his kid. make him pay, and play.

for every good story you hear about someone "just doing it" there are a million shatered lives washed up on the beach of life. if i was your father i'd whip your *** and take care of your kid so you could go on your quest. you have to be an example for your child. the 60's are over mommy. look around, cool guys have a job and make money.

p.s. get off the internet. cancel you dsl, sell your computer and put the savings in your vacation account.




Not because I planed about 9k for my trip that I don't own more. I own a nice appartement (condo), I don't have much expenses and I could even bring enough to invest down there, I just don't want to settle down permanently and live through the headaches of getting jobs done. I have enough money on the side to keep me going for much more than 4 months if I'd want to.

It's not like it would be my 1st experience in traveling with a pack sack either, and you don't seem to understand what "having an exit out of there ASAP" means. And I don't plan on traveling with a pack sack this time I plan on living there a few months.

FYI, Dady was an abusive, dangerous, wife beating white male. I almost aborted because one night after he beated me up so bad I had to be hospitalised, and thank god I was able to walk in the snow for a phone booth. Today, none of his family, nor him are allowed to get anywhere near us! And he's not mentionned anywhere as the child's father. Greatest decision in my entire life.

My friend would be interested of coming too, so 2 chicas con 2 ni?os is more ressourcefull than 1 chica con 1 ni?o. It's not when I'm 65 that it will be time to enjoy life, it's today, and for my son, it's now or never since he can do it now while in school all he currently learns is drawings. Would it be better that I go teach French in South Africa you think? Because after DR, that's my next option...

Oh btw, you have to say MUY LOCA not MUI LOCO, I'm a girl...
 

Mira

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Voyager said:
But to live like that? Aaaahhh!? What if your friend gets sick? What if her son gets sick? What if she reads about a new exhibition in The Louvre and wants to see it? (Sorry, but I just had to make that comment!)


Don't tell me, I've proposed her often to come back, she's got money to do so, but she don't want to. She sends her son every once in a while by plane to visit her mom and picks him back up at the Cancun airport after a month. Most importantly it's that she's well, she loves what she's living and she won't have regrets later!

I did my bungee jumps, my parachute jumps, mountain climbing whenever I can, and I and don't regret it I actually love it and enjoy it. If I would have listened to people I would have never try that because it was RISKY!! My son does indoor wall climbing now! It's going to be a great, intelligent and open minded kid!
 

Voyager

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Response to "I understand it's hard for some people to understand... "

Hey Mira, I read your long post carefully and of course you make a lot of valid points there. Sure! But...

People have always wanted to "improve" their lives, haven't they? There is a little capitalist inside most of us.

I am thinking of the parents of my father. Living in pre-war Finland, with 8 kids, they lived a "simple life" and died before they reached 50! My grandmother used to go from farm to farm, begging for skimmed milk, which she mixed with equal amount of water. This is what my dad drank when he was a boy. To wash clothes in the wintertime, my grandmother hacked a hole in the ice on the bay and washed the clothes there, with bare hands. When she was in her 40's, her hands looked like claws! My grandfather was a fisherman, often risking his life, going out to sea in bad weather, because he had to put food on the table.

When I was a boy, my father told me stories of his childhood and he blessed the comforts of modern Sweden.

Look at the Medieval Industrial Revolution, when the churches of Europe worked hard in contributing to mechanizing work, that was previously done by hand. The reason was that people would get more time to spend on developing their spiritual side. All Cisterciensian monasteries in medieval Europe used water power to drive mechanical mills for washing clothes etc.

Why abandon electrical light for candles, rather than using high tech solutions to produce electricity in a way friendly to the environment?

Of course the locals in 3rd world countries become very resorceful to make it through the day, with the bucket under the leaking roof and what have you. But I am sure they do not live like that because they enjoy it! Just like my grandmother did not wash clothes in icy water, because it was quaint!

And now I learn that your hair-brading friend has the money to go home whenever she wants to!!! Mira, that is very important info and puts her "Robinson Crusoe" life in a totally different perspective! You should have said that from the beginning.

In conclusion, I feel that the hard part is to find the balance. The balance between materialist values and spiritual values. But there is not need to move to a 3rd world country to find that balance. You, Mira, is living it right now, in Canada!

(Also, see my post "Contemplative Ruminations on the "Simple Life"")
 

stallion

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britishgirl said:
Yes I forgot to add those bits, pay is of course lower, but if you've saved, then you will be able to live comfortably
also, I find the DR safer than the more developed countries like the UK, Canada and US etc.

I know you are from the UK, but have you lived in Canada and The US?. You just said that DR is much safer than these countries. In general all countries have their good neighbourhoods and bad neighbourhoods. The only countries that I find not safe are war torn countries and countries that are in war.
 

Mira

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Voyager said:
Response to "I understand it's hard for some people to understand... "

Hey Mira, I read your long post carefully and of course you make a lot of valid points there. Sure! But...

People have always wanted to "improve" their lives, haven't they? There is a little capitalist inside most of us.

I am thinking of the parents of my father. Living in pre-war Finland, with 8 kids, they lived a "simple life" and died before they reached 50! My grandmother used to go from farm to farm, begging for skimmed milk, which she mixed with equal amount of water. This is what my dad drank when he was a boy. To wash clothes in the wintertime, my grandmother hacked a hole in the ice on the bay and washed the clothes there, with bare hands. When she was in her 40's, her hands looked like claws! My grandfather was a fisherman, often risking his life, going out to sea in bad weather, because he had to put food on the table.

When I was a boy, my father told me stories of his childhood and he blessed the comforts of modern Sweden.

Look at the Medieval Industrial Revolution, when the churches of Europe worked hard in contributing to mechanizing work, that was previously done by hand. The reason was that people would get more time to spend on developing their spiritual side. All Cisterciensian monasteries in medieval Europe used water power to drive mechanical mills for washing clothes etc.

Why abandon electrical light for candles, rather than using high tech solutions to produce electricity in a way friendly to the environment?

Of course the locals in 3rd world countries become very resorceful to make it through the day, with the bucket under the leaking roof and what have you. But I am sure they do not live like that because they enjoy it! Just like my grandmother did not wash clothes in icy water, because it was quaint!

And now I learn that your hair-brading friend has the money to go home whenever she wants to!!! Mira, that is very important info and puts her "Robinson Crusoe" life in a totally different perspective! You should have said that from the beginning.

In conclusion, I feel that the hard part is to find the balance. The balance between materialist values and spiritual values. But there is not need to move to a 3rd world country to find that balance. You, Mira, is living it right now, in Canada!

(Also, see my post "Contemplative Ruminations on the "Simple Life"")



She did not bring money along with her, but she does have some money, not much if I believe what I hear but enough to be back and send her son 2 a year. She owns nothing else thought, there is nothing for her here when she comes back... really bad choice and bad decision if you ask me but she was willing to give it a try. (knowing she could come back if she wants to.)

A nice wolrd like today gives us the opportunity to chose what we want, that's what make it great. Different values, priorities and dreams for different people. If I like that lifestyle why not! If I enjoy teaching why not becoming an EFL teacher, even thought I live in a dump, I don't ask anyone to live my life, I will live it myself. If it's great, I will let you know, if it's my worse nightmare, you'll end up knowing it too! But at least, I will be able to say "I've done it!". ;)
 

Mira

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el gringo 762 said:
you're nuts. that's it. live doing hair on the beach? crazy, stupid, and that's ok for you, but to put your child through that is wrong.

keep your job, get your head out of your *** and make, save your money for vacations.

read this: i want you to have a good life. i want you to go to the dr and lavida loco, but not when it's like rolling dice. a good life is planning, preperation and action.

it must be the snow up there. "all work and no play makes jack a dull boy". make a three year plan. go on a vacation every year see the coutry. get on the internet and look at work opp's, plan, plan, plan. your child should not have to grow up with anymore stress than they already have.

during that time: unless you bored daddy to death with your blah, blah, blah get his sorry *** involved with his kid. make him pay, and play.

for every good story you hear about someone "just doing it" there are a million shatered lives washed up on the beach of life. if i was your father i'd whip your *** and take care of your kid so you could go on your quest. you have to be an example for your child. the 60's are over mommy. look around, cool guys have a job and make money.

p.s. get off the internet. cancel you dsl, sell your computer and put the savings in your vacation account.



I actually dreamed of you... Before I checked your profile I tought you must have been like in your 70'S with a negative attitude like that in most of your post and the overall disguss of the human race, and minds so closed, in a world today that teaches us acceptance, comprehension, instead of judgements and condemnations. But I am shoked to see you are quite young. Too much presidente? Your parents were "hippies" and you are not over it? If you didn't like DR, I am sure no one forced you to go! Ever camped in Venezuella and Guatemala? Maybe you should try it out!

Here's a thought for you, change your name to El Grinch-O 247!! It's much more appropriate in your case!
 

Jimmydr

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Mira said:
Now questions I ask about babysitters, and schools, and work, etc. That is mostly for next year, if I loved my 4months experience and plan on going back for a longer time. That time thought I shouldn't be alone, since my friend thinks of coming with me and her son as well.


I am down in the Sosua area in July and Aug. We have a nanny and we have a few others that are available. If you are there we can meet.
 

liam1

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Mira, go for it! it's better to try and fail than to never try at all. if you don't try you will regret it later for sure. in a few years you will hear or read on this board how someone moved to the DR and is happy with his/her lifestyle now and you will be beating yourself up for not having enough courage to try it yourself. if you move to the DR no one is gonna take your passport away, you will always be able to hop on a plane and come back to canada. even if you "fail" you'll still enjoy the time spent in the DR trying to "make it".


ps.
just calculate what your risk/reward ratio is. if you can potentially gain more than you can lose, then it's worth taking a chance. if you have to risk alot to gain a little, it's not.
 
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Jimmydr

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liam1 said:
you will always be able to hop on a plane and come back to canada. even if you "fail" you'll still enjoy the time spent in the DR trying to "make it".


A few times I was approached by gringos that needed airfare money. They had nothing, just a thought.
 

Mira

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Jimmydr said:
A few times I was approached by gringos that needed airfare money. They had nothing, just a thought.



You know, sometimes there are Gringos who are thieves. Here we get beggars at every corner who claim they have no food, no home and no money, and guess what, they're all Canadians.

But if it is possible I have no way to access my money from down there, than I could get open end tickets. I was thinking to avoid carrying too much money to put 10k ahead on my CC but I wouldn't want to be victim of a fraud so I would like to use the CC only if I am really stock. The other times I traveled I use to always have a big dock tape roll and duck tape my passport and my money to me, the only thing is even here in Montreal I wouldn't feel safe with 10k on me.

Sorry if I try to find solutions to everything but that is part of the job I do here, plan ahead for people, study all the eventualities, always be ready for a situation spin and most important of all, always find a solution.
 

miguel

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Jimmydr said:
I think you will need $1500 - $2500 a month minimum.

Monthly
Rent $300 - $400
School $150 - $200
Food $500 - $600
Trans $100
Misc $300
Nanny $100

Just my 2 cents
It all depends on how she wants to live. If she is coming here to live the "good life" and go out all the time and live in a great neighorhood, then some of your figures are "right on", except the "school".

If she wants to live comfortable and still have her kid in private school( and please don't say that she can not find it since I know people that are paying much less the the below figures):

Rent- 200- 300
Private school- 250-400
Food- 300-400
Trans- 100 unless you buy a car
Misc- 100-200
Nanny/Maid- 150-200

Now, if you want to live the "high life", multiply the obove by 3 or 4.
 

Criss Colon

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"Poor Mira",Born At The Wrong Place,At The Wrong Time!!!

Mira,you are a "Hippie",born 30 years too late! You should have been in the "States" during the late 60s,early 70s!!I graduated from highschool in 1965,started college,"Dropped Out"!Everyone was like you,an Idealist".Wanted the "Simple Life". The early 70s found me traveling South Esat Asia,living on the beach in Thailand.Smoking and "Chasing The Dragon" in Hong Kong.This was long before I had any kids to take care of.You can make any decision you want,your son has to go along no matter what.I think it is great to expose children to many cultures and countries,my son visited Thailand too,but like the other guy said,"We stayed at a 4* hotel,not in the jungle!
Point is,you need a safety net.MORE MONEY! Have you ever heard of an "ATM"??? you don't need cash,you can take money from a "Cash Machine",as long as you have some money to take out!There are a lot of diseases in this country,malaria,dengue,and hemorahgic dengue,amebic dysentery,aaand lots of things that give you fevers,and diarrhea.They are very bad when children have them.Car and "Other" accidents are frequent.You sound more like you are running "away from' rather that "Too" something.The polution in the DR makes the "Moose" problem in Canada seem like a loke! There is basically NO environmental rules or regulations here.Trash,oil,human and animal waste,"Potash",junk vehicles,mining runoff,all go where they may!This island has some really beautiful spots,but don't dig too deeply!
Read the thread about the Canadian boy who drowned recently in Puerto Plata.That will give you a better idea about taking care of children in the DR!I have four children here,and I worry day and night!