Coronavirus - In the DR

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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I am under the impression that there are a number of vaccines that "work" currently in safety trials.
Russia and China had a vaccine that may or may not "work" that was released months ago.
China gave it to soldiers in the army and Russia released it to the general public.
Of course with both countries they cannot be relied on to be truthful about anything that could reflect poorly on either country.
There is no way to know if a vaccine works for a period of time if you don't wait for that period of time to see the results.
That is why it takes years to know. Giving vaccines to large amounts of people means nothing until the results are in
years down the road.
 

zoomzx11

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Jan 21, 2006
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One year? Two years? More?

We will only know in a couple of years if vaccines are really effective and that is with "warp speed" development of a vaccine






And if there ends up being no way to overcome the virus spread? What then?

And if there ends up being no way to overcome the virus spread? What then?
We continue with the status quo of masks, hand washing, social distancing to reduce the spread and continue to see cases.

The history of vaccines is that most provide good protection from becoming seriously ill but are less effective if a person has a mild response. This means that IF you get the vaccine you will still be able to spread the disease if you have the mild response.
Good news is you will be protected from becoming gravely ill.

A large number of people will refuse the vaccine and they will add to the infection rates spreading the disease.

People who refuse masks and rail against closing the parts of the economy are often the kinds of folks who will refuse the vaccine, the tough guys, the contrarians, the people who complain about loss of human rights and science deniers.
These will be the exact folks who will be in a major way responsible for what they are complaining about continuing.

Add in that vaccines are hoped be about 70/75% effective and we are can forget about vaccine herd immunity.
Only my view but it looks like we might as well get used to masks and the rest of it for at least a couple of years.
If you do not want to be disappointed then its a good time to lower your expectations.

Interesting that compliance with getting the vaccine varies with countries.
Saw a study that gave China 97% compliance, Europe 50% and the US about 45%.
About 45% of Americans now get the annual flu vaccine.

I do not know enough about Dominican culture to even guess what the response to getting a Covid vaccine might be.
 

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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zoomzx11 - There has never been an effective coronavirus vaccine before. Maybe they have a way to create the first one that works.
They think they do.

Nobody has any idea how long any of the vaccines in development will last until time goes by to see how long they last.

All previous vaccines have taken many years to develop, distribute and verify that they have a beneficial effect.
Why will this be different?
 

John Boyter

Coffee break
Jun 10, 2008
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johnboyter.com
The tremendous lack of tourists here will continue. There are about 9 flights a day into PUJ, normally 9 flights come in in 2 or 3 hours. People from the EU are not coming here at all. Some countries insist on 14 day quarantine coming back to their country. No one wants a vacation like that.

Regardless of the the rhetoric it will be quite awhile for the tourist trade to even come close to as it was before Covid 19.
My worst fear for the DR is if the US suddenly says only essential travel and closes its borders to countries hard hit. The DR right now depends more than usual on the US.
 
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zoomzx11

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Jan 21, 2006
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I am usually a compassionate person.
When foolish self centered people demonstrate zero regard for their fellow man and refuse to make behavioral changes supported by science to help others and then go on and refuse a Covid vaccine my compassion ends.
These selfish contrarians will cause more sickness, deaths and extend the pandemic for a long time.
I wear masks, intend to get the Covid vaccine and do all I can to keep everyone safe.

When the vaccine is widely distributed there will be a new most likely to become infected with the virus.
The deniers and anti vaxxers will take the number one position and deservedly so.
Going to be hard to work up a shred of sympathy when the just desserts get handed out.
 

zoomzx11

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Jan 21, 2006
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zoomzx11 - There has never been an effective coronavirus vaccine before. Maybe they have a way to create the first one that works.
They think they do.

Nobody has any idea how long any of the vaccines in development will last until time goes by to see how long they last.

All previous vaccines have taken many years to develop, distribute and verify that they have a beneficial effect.
Why will this be different?
There is a long list of effective vaccine that have been created and some for virus infections similar to Covid.
Covid does not appear to be anything like the armored AIDS virus that has eluded a vaccine.
The vaccine developers know the duration of effectiveness from their test experience. One vaccine developer has 42,000
volunteers in its trials.
The beneficial effect will be know from the results and length of the trial and that experience is weeks away from being released according to MSM.
I am concerned with beneficial effect but more concerned with the safety of the vaccine that it does not cause other issues.
The developers will know it works, to what degree and that it is safe.
I have a great deal of faith in modern medicine.
Average age at death in 1900 in the US was 49 and today it is 79.

Smallpox took two hundred years to eliminate the disease world wide and it was a safe vaccine.
Improved measles vaccine became available in 1968 and US eliminated the disease in 2000.Its a also a highly contagious virus.

It could be a long time to effectively stop the disease with a vaccine and it will be made much more difficult by people refusing the shot and ignoring as often as possible the ways in which the spread is reduced.

Unlikely it will be much different from past vaccine experience.
About all I am able to do is make certain my family is vaccinated and encourage others.
I hope the vaccine makes it way to the DR quickly and that most will vaccinate.
 
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william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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Look at y'day's test results
=========================
The Ministry of Public Health’s Epidemiology Department Coronavirus Bulletin #223 reports 562 new PCR confirmed cases.



6,061 first PCR tests were carried out in time for the deadline of Bulletin #223. The 14-day average is 3,541 tests.



The 24-hour positivity rate is at 9.27% and the 4-week positivity rate continues to decline and is at 11.65%, both new lows. The downward trend of active cases was interrupted, with an increase of 468 cases over the previous day. As of Tuesday, 27 October 2020 deadline the active cases are 19,926.

===========================================
Tell me again the curfew is useless........

We're doing well

And don't give me the 'Dominican Math' crap !!!
 
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zoomzx11

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Jan 21, 2006
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Look at y'day's test results
=========================
The Ministry of Public Health’s Epidemiology Department Coronavirus Bulletin #223 reports 562 new PCR confirmed cases.



6,061 first PCR tests were carried out in time for the deadline of Bulletin #223. The 14-day average is 3,541 tests.

\

The 24-hour positivity rate is at 9.27% and the 4-week positivity rate continues to decline and is at 11.65%, both new lows. The downward trend of active cases was interrupted, with an increase of 468 cases over the previous day. As of Tuesday, 27 October 2020 deadline the active cases are 19,926.

===========================================
Tell me again the curfew is useless........

We're doing well

And don't give me the 'Dominican Math' crap !!!
There is no way to know if a vaccine works for a period of time if you don't wait for that period of time to see the results.
That is why it takes years to know. Giving vaccines to large amounts of people means nothing until the results are in
years down the road.
Moderna has 1.1 billion in deposits and agreements with US and Middle East companies for its vaccine.
If it does not work it will be the largest fraud ever perpetrated and would signal the collapse of one of the worlds largest pharmaceutical companies.
Way beyond highly unlikely.
 

nanita

Active member
Jul 28, 2014
120
170
43
I am usually a compassionate person.
When foolish self centered people demonstrate zero regard for their fellow man and refuse to make behavioral changes supported by science to help others and then go on and refuse a Covid vaccine my compassion ends.
These selfish contrarians will cause more sickness, deaths and extend the pandemic for a long time.
I wear masks, intend to get the Covid vaccine and do all I can to keep everyone safe.

When the vaccine is widely distributed there will be a new most likely to become infected with the virus.
The deniers and anti vaxxers will take the number one position and deservedly so.
Going to be hard to work up a shred of sympathy when the just desserts get handed out.

Here's a list of the short term side effects just ONE person had with the vaccine. They really expect us to take this sh!t?​


https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/26/moderna-vaccine-candidate-trial-participant-severe-reaction/
TL;DR First dose:
Pain at injection site.
Inability to lift arm at shoulder
Second dose:
Quicker pain in arm.
Chills/Fingertips cold (circulation issue?)
103 degree fever
Nausea
Aching muscles
Told to go to hospital for urgent care
Nausea and vomitting
Fainting

He describes it as 'the sickest he's ever felt'
They say that symptoms like such a severe fever you're hospitalised and fainting " would likely be seen as acceptable even if they turned out to be seen in future studies. "
This was in a young, healthy man. Not an elderly or immunocompromised person as well.

I can't believe anyone would want the Dominican population to take the vaccine.
 

NanSanPedro

Nickel with tin plating
Apr 12, 2019
1,628
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Here's a list of the short term side effects just ONE person had with the vaccine. They really expect us to take this sh!t?​


https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/26/moderna-vaccine-candidate-trial-participant-severe-reaction/
TL;DR First dose:
Pain at injection site.
Inability to lift arm at shoulder
Second dose:
Quicker pain in arm.
Chills/Fingertips cold (circulation issue?)
103 degree fever
Nausea
Aching muscles
Told to go to hospital for urgent care
Nausea and vomitting
Fainting

He describes it as 'the sickest he's ever felt'
They say that symptoms like such a severe fever you're hospitalised and fainting " would likely be seen as acceptable even if they turned out to be seen in future studies. "
This was in a young, healthy man. Not an elderly or immunocompromised person as well.

I can't believe anyone would want the Dominican population to take the vaccine.

Or the expats in RD. Ain't happening.
 

jd426

Gold
Dec 12, 2009
8,035
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Please take your own advice re: posting lies and opinion

What are your legitimate sources?
Start here

" The CoVID-19 pandemic is about viral transmission. Surgical and cloth masks have repeatedly been shown to offer no benefit in the mitigation of transmission and infection caused by viruses like influenza and SARS-CoV-2. Which is exactly why they have never been recommended for use during the seasonal flu outbreak, epidemics, or previous pandemics.

The failure of the scientific literature to support medical masks for influenza and all other viruses, is also why Fauci, the US Surgeon General, the CDC, WHO, and pretty much every infectious disease expert stated that wearing masks won't prevent transmission of SARS CoV-2. Although the public health "authorities" flipped, flopped, and later changed their recommendations, the science did not change, nor did new science appear that supported the wearing of masks in public. In fact, the most recent systemic analysis once again confirms that masks are ineffective in preventing the transmission of viruses like CoVID-19: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article """



Specifically go HERE

Face Masks​

Thumbnail of Meta-analysis of risk ratios for the effect of face mask use with or without enhanced hand hygiene on laboratory-confirmed influenza from 10 randomized controlled trials with >6,500 participants. A) Face mask use alone; B) face mask and hand hygiene; C) face mask with or without hand hygiene. Pooled estimates were not made if there was high heterogeneity (I2 >75%). Squares indicate risk ratio for each of the included studies, horizontal lines indicate 95% CIs, dashed vertical

Figure 2. Meta-analysis of risk ratios for the effect of face mask use with or without enhanced hand hygiene on laboratory-confirmed influenza from 10 randomized controlled trials with >6,500 participants. A) Face mask...
In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2). One study evaluated the use of masks among pilgrims from Australia during the Hajj pilgrimage and reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group (33). Two studies in university settings assessed the effectiveness of face masks for primary protection by monitoring the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among student hall residents for 5 months (9,10). The overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies (9,10). Study designs in the 7 household studies were slightly different: 1 study provided face masks and P2 respirators for household contacts only (34), another study evaluated face mask use as a source control for infected persons only (35), and the remaining studies provided masks for the infected persons as well as their close contacts (1113,15,17). None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group (1113,15,17,34,35). Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group.


Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

We did not consider the use of respirators in the community. Respirators are tight-fitting masks that can protect the wearer from fine particles (37) and should provide better protection against influenza virus exposures when properly worn because of higher filtration efficiency. However, respirators, such as N95 and P2 masks, work best when they are fit-tested, and these masks will be in limited supply during the next pandemic. These specialist devices should be reserved for use in healthcare settings or in special subpopulations such as immunocompromised persons in the community, first responders, and those performing other critical community functions, as supplies permit.

In lower-income settings, it is more likely that reusable cloth masks will be used rather than disposable medical masks because of cost and availability (38). There are still few uncertainties in the practice of face mask use, such as who should wear the mask and how long it should be used for. In theory, transmission should be reduced the most if both infected members and other contacts wear masks, but compliance in uninfected close contacts could be a problem (12,34). Proper use of face masks is essential because improper use might increase the risk for transmission (39). Thus, education on the proper use and disposal of used face masks, including hand hygiene, is also needed.
 

Michael DR

Member
Jun 7, 2020
47
44
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Earth
Start here

" The CoVID-19 pandemic is about viral transmission. Surgical and cloth masks have repeatedly been shown to offer no benefit in the mitigation of transmission and infection caused by viruses like influenza and SARS-CoV-2. Which is exactly why they have never been recommended for use during the seasonal flu outbreak, epidemics, or previous pandemics.

The failure of the scientific literature to support medical masks for influenza and all other viruses, is also why Fauci, the US Surgeon General, the CDC, WHO, and pretty much every infectious disease expert stated that wearing masks won't prevent transmission of SARS CoV-2. Although the public health "authorities" flipped, flopped, and later changed their recommendations, the science did not change, nor did new science appear that supported the wearing of masks in public. In fact, the most recent systemic analysis once again confirms that masks are ineffective in preventing the transmission of viruses like CoVID-19: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article """

That's out of date and has been updated.

A characteristic of good science, and intelligence, is that as new evidence comes to light conclusions change and are updated. Also the ability to not just focus on the minutia but to be able to see the bigger picture.

For example https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article

I'm no expert and obviously neither are you, so I'm not going to spend all night trading CDC links. The current prevailing best practice is to keep 6', or 2 metres for the rest of the non-US World, apart and everyone wears masks. Especially if that distance cannot be maintained and if in enclosed spaces. Feel free to try and prove that wrong but I won't hang around waiting LOL
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
33,644
1,541
113
There is a long list of effective vaccine that have been created and some for virus infections similar to Covid.
Covid does not appear to be anything like the armored AIDS virus that has eluded a vaccine.
The vaccine developers know the duration of effectiveness from their test experience. One vaccine developer has 42,000
volunteers in its trials.
The beneficial effect will be know from the results and length of the trial and that experience is weeks away from being released according to MSM.
I am concerned with beneficial effect but more concerned with the safety of the vaccine that it does not cause other issues.
The developers will know it works, to what degree and that it is safe.
I have a great deal of faith in modern medicine.
Average age at death in 1900 in the US was 49 and today it is 79.

Smallpox took two hundred years to eliminate the disease world wide and it was a safe vaccine.
Improved measles vaccine became available in 1968 and US eliminated the disease in 2000.Its a also a highly contagious virus.

It could be a long time to effectively stop the disease with a vaccine and it will be made much more difficult by people refusing the shot and ignoring as often as possible the ways in which the spread is reduced.

Unlikely it will be much different from past vaccine experience.
About all I am able to do is make certain my family is vaccinated and encourage others.
I hope the vaccine makes it way to the DR quickly and that most will vaccinate.
Name two vaccines against coronaviruses that are effective. I know of zero that work on coronaviruses.
Were the other vaccines ones that required liquid nitrogen and hoped to provide T cell immunity?

At least we agree this will take years if there is an effective vaccine which we won't until years down the road.