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Denying your Dominican Heritage
I think that people should not hide there Dominican heritage. even though being Dominican will cause them many problems during their life in society. Dominicans are classified as indecent people and many other tittles.
Hi Deelt,
Are you sure about Mr. Lithgow?
I thought his family was in transition therefore he is not Dominican, I bet he did not know Spanish... I vaguely remember his son talking Spanish (3rd Rock from the Sun episode) and it had a thick thick american accent, not castillano or refined spanish (as expected from high society) but bad american spanish. I know were talking about his father but if father is "Dominican" therefore his son would at least know Spanish, etc.
Hasta Luego,
Capo
Are you sure about Mr. Lithgow?
I thought his family was in transition therefore he is not Dominican, I bet he did not know Spanish... I vaguely remember his son talking Spanish (3rd Rock from the Sun episode) and it had a thick thick american accent, not castillano or refined spanish (as expected from high society) but bad american spanish. I know were talking about his father but if father is "Dominican" therefore his son would at least know Spanish, etc.
Hasta Luego,
Capo
deelt said:
This subject hits close to him, even though I have never denied being Dominican, I am a very harsh critic of Dominican society. Through out my young life I have been called anti-Dominican, in matter of fact most people do not believe I am Dominican, I believe I look Dominican but I guess it is the way I carry myself.
The way Dominicans are viewed throughout NYC (matter of fact North East US) is not positive, I like to emphasize this point to non-New Yorkers, we are seen as drug-dealers, welfare abusing, loud, music blaring, uncultured, unruly tenants/immigrants. I like to think I am a positive person but I have studied many Dominican communities and I do not like what I see (look at all my past posts on Washington Heights), our culture is very unethical (do not confuse with unmoral but the line is thin), due to the fact many Dominican immigrants are not educated and do not emphasize education and social customs to their children this creates a very bad social stigma [sic] in the States. To basically put it most Dominicans, at least a large portion, are bad citizens by society standards.
I am in a constant struggle over my opinion on DR & its people. Should I rejoice over such a country that produces such citizens? Should I be/feel nationalistic pride to a society that does not care about its own people and is a me attitude first? Should I rejoice over trivial things like Felix Sanchez Olympic victory or Sammy Sosa, Alex Rodriguez athletic feats when it will not solve bigger issues?
I can understand a person denying the fact they are Dominican but I will never deny my Dominicaness, but, I do not like these other "Dominicans" or should I say First generation by products of American ghettos stating they are Dominicans when they are not. They only know of DR as a cheap vacation (which some cannot afford) yet they do not care about DRs political strife (or US political strife but that is another topic) or true struggles, they only know DR is a place where you can drink, have cheap sluts, and have all the fun you can without the cops "harassing" them. I bring this topic up because I find it strange how more educated Dominicans or those from well to do families sometimes deny their heritage yet the uneducated have this foolish pride. They carry themselves like if being Dominican is such a great thing and take pride in being the first colony of Spain, etc. I find this quite amusing and wonder if future second and third generation Americans of Dominican descent still acknowledge their Dominicaness or will they just assimilate into other cultures?
Hasta Luego y Paz,
Capo
BTW if anybody wants to read how messed up Dominicans are in NYC public schools, please read this blog, you have to go back and search the teachers prior class which was filled with Dominicans. It is great and mind opening, he is a English Second Language teacher and really cares about the kids.
http://hombreblanco.blogspot.com/
The way Dominicans are viewed throughout NYC (matter of fact North East US) is not positive, I like to emphasize this point to non-New Yorkers, we are seen as drug-dealers, welfare abusing, loud, music blaring, uncultured, unruly tenants/immigrants. I like to think I am a positive person but I have studied many Dominican communities and I do not like what I see (look at all my past posts on Washington Heights), our culture is very unethical (do not confuse with unmoral but the line is thin), due to the fact many Dominican immigrants are not educated and do not emphasize education and social customs to their children this creates a very bad social stigma [sic] in the States. To basically put it most Dominicans, at least a large portion, are bad citizens by society standards.
I am in a constant struggle over my opinion on DR & its people. Should I rejoice over such a country that produces such citizens? Should I be/feel nationalistic pride to a society that does not care about its own people and is a me attitude first? Should I rejoice over trivial things like Felix Sanchez Olympic victory or Sammy Sosa, Alex Rodriguez athletic feats when it will not solve bigger issues?
I can understand a person denying the fact they are Dominican but I will never deny my Dominicaness, but, I do not like these other "Dominicans" or should I say First generation by products of American ghettos stating they are Dominicans when they are not. They only know of DR as a cheap vacation (which some cannot afford) yet they do not care about DRs political strife (or US political strife but that is another topic) or true struggles, they only know DR is a place where you can drink, have cheap sluts, and have all the fun you can without the cops "harassing" them. I bring this topic up because I find it strange how more educated Dominicans or those from well to do families sometimes deny their heritage yet the uneducated have this foolish pride. They carry themselves like if being Dominican is such a great thing and take pride in being the first colony of Spain, etc. I find this quite amusing and wonder if future second and third generation Americans of Dominican descent still acknowledge their Dominicaness or will they just assimilate into other cultures?
Hasta Luego y Paz,
Capo
BTW if anybody wants to read how messed up Dominicans are in NYC public schools, please read this blog, you have to go back and search the teachers prior class which was filled with Dominicans. It is great and mind opening, he is a English Second Language teacher and really cares about the kids.
http://hombreblanco.blogspot.com/
An enclave within an enclave
Capo,
I read a bit of the blog and honestly I had to stop in order to keep my sanity. I think the situation/ the teacher's experience with the Dominicans he taught is one that is already beyond repair. There are so many factors that lead to this kind of deterioration in schools but ultimately the behavior patterns exhibited by the students start in the home. The students are victims of their environment and certainly represent the upbringing that they have had. The parents most likely are not educated (at all) nor education driven however, the kids are forced to go to school because it's a requirement. They survive the system the best way they can and as soon as they can leave they do so with a mediocre education and needless to say post secondary education is out of the question because of incompletion.
Cyclical patterns such as these need serious analysis and a special type of cultural understanding in order to get to the root of the problem with the hopes of finding a solution. I have my own experiences with teaching Hispanic children of all backgrounds and I can tell you hands on if you talk to the parents, you will see where the problem lies in most cases. There is a solution IMO and the root of the problem with these types of students is overcoming poverty culture mentality. The teacher's blog really makes me wonder if these students realize how much of an opportunity they are throwing away and what is the state of other Hispanic enclaves in the USA. For example cubano-americano. It's truly a sad scenario especially in this day and age where opportunities such as education are infinite.
Saludos,
LDG.
Capo,
I read a bit of the blog and honestly I had to stop in order to keep my sanity. I think the situation/ the teacher's experience with the Dominicans he taught is one that is already beyond repair. There are so many factors that lead to this kind of deterioration in schools but ultimately the behavior patterns exhibited by the students start in the home. The students are victims of their environment and certainly represent the upbringing that they have had. The parents most likely are not educated (at all) nor education driven however, the kids are forced to go to school because it's a requirement. They survive the system the best way they can and as soon as they can leave they do so with a mediocre education and needless to say post secondary education is out of the question because of incompletion.
Cyclical patterns such as these need serious analysis and a special type of cultural understanding in order to get to the root of the problem with the hopes of finding a solution. I have my own experiences with teaching Hispanic children of all backgrounds and I can tell you hands on if you talk to the parents, you will see where the problem lies in most cases. There is a solution IMO and the root of the problem with these types of students is overcoming poverty culture mentality. The teacher's blog really makes me wonder if these students realize how much of an opportunity they are throwing away and what is the state of other Hispanic enclaves in the USA. For example cubano-americano. It's truly a sad scenario especially in this day and age where opportunities such as education are infinite.
Saludos,
LDG.
Buenos Dias Lesley,
I pointed out the fact that location and economic factors affects development. For a more indepth view on my observations & experience as a Dominican in NYC public education system check out post #145 http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45228&page=15.
If "Mr. Blancos" experience was a isolated experience I would not make a big deal about it but throughout my experiences I see more & more "Dominican communities" lose its faith in education. Dominicans are going backwards instead of forward and that worries me, I sometimes compare things too much but I see other immigrant communities leaping forward and it is shameful how some people fight hard for a better life yet their kid messes up that opportunity.
Hasta Luego,
Capo
I pointed out the fact that location and economic factors affects development. For a more indepth view on my observations & experience as a Dominican in NYC public education system check out post #145 http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45228&page=15.
If "Mr. Blancos" experience was a isolated experience I would not make a big deal about it but throughout my experiences I see more & more "Dominican communities" lose its faith in education. Dominicans are going backwards instead of forward and that worries me, I sometimes compare things too much but I see other immigrant communities leaping forward and it is shameful how some people fight hard for a better life yet their kid messes up that opportunity.
Hasta Luego,
Capo
Lesley D said:
Great response
Capo,
Congratulations to you for your achievements thus far. If you remain true to your word you will attain your goals and be a role model for those around you. I know you know where I stand on education. The sky is the limit and even when you complete your formal studies you own the rest of your development which is what I call the 'informal' education piece. Seek your books, read them, highlight key pieces of information and put the information to use in different facets of your life.
I think I have a partial answer to my own question after reading your response ''I see other immigrant communities leaping forward''. Going back to my comment about other enclaves such as 'Cuban-Americans' could it be that they are progressing differently because their struggle is different to begin with? (rhetorical question). This is food for thought but I think overall there is a perception of 'success' associated with Cubans as compared to Dominicans en los EEUU.
Te deseo mucha suerte.
LDG.
Capo,
Congratulations to you for your achievements thus far. If you remain true to your word you will attain your goals and be a role model for those around you. I know you know where I stand on education. The sky is the limit and even when you complete your formal studies you own the rest of your development which is what I call the 'informal' education piece. Seek your books, read them, highlight key pieces of information and put the information to use in different facets of your life.
I think I have a partial answer to my own question after reading your response ''I see other immigrant communities leaping forward''. Going back to my comment about other enclaves such as 'Cuban-Americans' could it be that they are progressing differently because their struggle is different to begin with? (rhetorical question). This is food for thought but I think overall there is a perception of 'success' associated with Cubans as compared to Dominicans en los EEUU.
Te deseo mucha suerte.
LDG.
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Education Vs Politics Vs Corruption
Cuban people are obliged to go to school until the reach 17 years old, Fidel Castro really took his people at heart by throwing out of their country Batista and his American Corrupted businessmen. Which was an excellent decision.
Nowadays they maybe the only country in the world with such a high level of education and with nobody homeless and dying of hunger. Can the US claim the same?
To make a long story short: In DR, kick Leonel, Hippolito and all other corrupted politicians out and get somebody like Fidel, that stand sin front of his nations, proud and incorruptible and you'll see! If it work there without the help of the Americans, so can DR do.
Cheers
Alain Richard
Lesley D said:
Cuban people are obliged to go to school until the reach 17 years old, Fidel Castro really took his people at heart by throwing out of their country Batista and his American Corrupted businessmen. Which was an excellent decision.
Nowadays they maybe the only country in the world with such a high level of education and with nobody homeless and dying of hunger. Can the US claim the same?
To make a long story short: In DR, kick Leonel, Hippolito and all other corrupted politicians out and get somebody like Fidel, that stand sin front of his nations, proud and incorruptible and you'll see! If it work there without the help of the Americans, so can DR do.
Cheers
Alain Richard
Alain Richard...
This is the Dominicans Abroad forum therefore we are talking about Dominican communities outside of the DR- enclaves. My current posts are specific to Capo's experience as a Dominican in the New York school system.
BTW I don't share your romanticized view about Cuba's educational system and needless to say the other grave issues about Cuba. Es probable que la gente no esté muriendo de hambre pero tiene hambre.
However, this is not a forum to discuss Cuban issues so I will stop here.
LDG.
This is the Dominicans Abroad forum therefore we are talking about Dominican communities outside of the DR- enclaves. My current posts are specific to Capo's experience as a Dominican in the New York school system.
BTW I don't share your romanticized view about Cuba's educational system and needless to say the other grave issues about Cuba. Es probable que la gente no esté muriendo de hambre pero tiene hambre.
However, this is not a forum to discuss Cuban issues so I will stop here.
LDG.
Environment over heredity.....
Being that I'm only half Dominican and grew up around mostly Blacks have a relationship with mostly my family and look and feel "Black" I would not consider myself denying anything....... Personally speaking of course!
Being that I'm only half Dominican and grew up around mostly Blacks have a relationship with mostly my family and look and feel "Black" I would not consider myself denying anything....... Personally speaking of course!
Sorry LESLEY,
But you know that when you are moving in another country your education follows you. So is for the perception of Dominicans or/and Cubans outside their own country.
My use of Cubans here had only been as a point of reference, an example. I know perfectly both countries and both realities.
Thanks anyways for reading and peace to you!
best regards
AR
But you know that when you are moving in another country your education follows you. So is for the perception of Dominicans or/and Cubans outside their own country.
My use of Cubans here had only been as a point of reference, an example. I know perfectly both countries and both realities.
Thanks anyways for reading and peace to you!
best regards
AR
Alain...
No need to apologize I understood your point for the most part and I agree with you that the concept and attitude one has towards education comes from one's country of origin. However, IMO your point was way too simplified for the complexity of the problem Capo mentioned that some Dominicans are experiencing in the NYC public school system. I stated in my post that it stems from the home (meaning the parents) which means one has to look at their education which is tied back to the DR but the problem does not stop there. Add socio-economic issues, language and cultural barriers that have not been overcome (most likely by choice) and the problem is already three fold.
Anyway I just wanted to clarify my point again with reference to Capo's posts.
Saludos,
LDG.
No need to apologize I understood your point for the most part and I agree with you that the concept and attitude one has towards education comes from one's country of origin. However, IMO your point was way too simplified for the complexity of the problem Capo mentioned that some Dominicans are experiencing in the NYC public school system. I stated in my post that it stems from the home (meaning the parents) which means one has to look at their education which is tied back to the DR but the problem does not stop there. Add socio-economic issues, language and cultural barriers that have not been overcome (most likely by choice) and the problem is already three fold.
Anyway I just wanted to clarify my point again with reference to Capo's posts.
Saludos,
LDG.
Its_where_I_Belong said:
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Yes. I am sure. John Lithgow is an alumni from Harvard. The Latino/Dominican student org there gave him an award. Printed in DR1 and all. Here is the thread where this is discussed:
http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31462&highlight=Harvard+Lithgow
If this thread doesn't work do a search on Harvard and Lithgow and you'll catch it there.
D
PS. Just becuase he does not speak Spanish at all or well does not make him any less Dominican. The Spanish Julia Alvarez speaks is so-so but you don't hear anyone complaining, do you? She actually hires someone to translate her work, because last time I can recall there not that many Latinos period in Vermont. Same goes for Felix Sanchez, etc. Let's not start that discussion of who "qualifies" to be Dominican. The issue presented in this thread completely the opposite...I am working from the assumption that I accept all levels of Dominican-ness in people. Whether these same individuals accept/acknowledge it within themselves is what we are discussing.
http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31462&highlight=Harvard+Lithgow
If this thread doesn't work do a search on Harvard and Lithgow and you'll catch it there.
D
PS. Just becuase he does not speak Spanish at all or well does not make him any less Dominican. The Spanish Julia Alvarez speaks is so-so but you don't hear anyone complaining, do you? She actually hires someone to translate her work, because last time I can recall there not that many Latinos period in Vermont. Same goes for Felix Sanchez, etc. Let's not start that discussion of who "qualifies" to be Dominican. The issue presented in this thread completely the opposite...I am working from the assumption that I accept all levels of Dominican-ness in people. Whether these same individuals accept/acknowledge it within themselves is what we are discussing.
capodominicano said:
Interesting observation, Capo.capodominicano said:
I wonder if there is a connection between the newer generations being born abroad who are increasingly rejecting education with the way education is treated here by the masses, who are on average very young (the national average age in this country is 21!).
As I have stated on other threads, plenty of demonstrations and strikes have been made and I have yet to see one about education improvement or even public health!
I am just wondering if the new younger generations of Dominicans abroad and at home are having similar reactions towards education and what is your insight in to why this is occuring? Especially given the different economic situations of Dominicans living abroad compared to their counterparts living in DR?
I'm aware you are a young fellow yourself, but you seem to have a very keen sence of understanding the world around you and thus, will value your opinion greatly.
-NAL
As someone who has been to Cuba, and has a brother married to a Cuban school teacher I think you have been listening to one of Castro's 24 hour long speechs. The last time I was there, he was going on and on about their wonderful medical system. Yris and I just shook our heads as we gave our new family members by marriage, school books, pens(more valuable than money in Cuba), medicine, bandages, creams...etc. You are correct,Cubans don't starve, but if they live in the city their rations are very limited. They have don't have any incentive to work, because hard work, no work, they basically get the same. Anyone who has been forced to live with Communism, will tell you the same, A pox on Communism, the most dehuminizing system ever invented.
Bob
I know what you mean:
Its a different system and the things is compare to DR there is no Rich and Poor. There is only people.
Actually rations are real. But you don`t need to bring to cuba pencils and notebooks since they are given for free to population. Canadians like to go to Cuba and bring them always whatever. As far as medecine yes I agree there is a lack of medication in free sale (Aspirin, bandage or what ever) but if you go to a clinic or hospital they`ll put the bandage on.
Now there is always the Cuban, that likes to look worst than others just to get as much as they can from the good generous white man, generally 30 years older than the bride (In Cuba they called them "Jineteras"), whom adores to look just like she is missing about everything in life. As far as food is concern, they always have to spend a little more.
Anyways I don`t pretend the Cuban system to be perfect, but it did over the time give the possibility to your sister in law to listen at Fidel`s speeches and understand it, which is not necesarily the case in DR.
I love DR for other reasons for it`s freedom, its craziness, biz opps, etc...
An d I would love to see a better future for its people and the country. I`ll be moving back to DR for good mid-december, would love to meet you and have a Barcelo Imperial 21 with you or a Presidente.
Cheers
Alain
I know what you mean:
Its a different system and the things is compare to DR there is no Rich and Poor. There is only people.
Actually rations are real. But you don`t need to bring to cuba pencils and notebooks since they are given for free to population. Canadians like to go to Cuba and bring them always whatever. As far as medecine yes I agree there is a lack of medication in free sale (Aspirin, bandage or what ever) but if you go to a clinic or hospital they`ll put the bandage on.
Now there is always the Cuban, that likes to look worst than others just to get as much as they can from the good generous white man, generally 30 years older than the bride (In Cuba they called them "Jineteras"), whom adores to look just like she is missing about everything in life. As far as food is concern, they always have to spend a little more.
Anyways I don`t pretend the Cuban system to be perfect, but it did over the time give the possibility to your sister in law to listen at Fidel`s speeches and understand it, which is not necesarily the case in DR.
I love DR for other reasons for it`s freedom, its craziness, biz opps, etc...
An d I would love to see a better future for its people and the country. I`ll be moving back to DR for good mid-december, would love to meet you and have a Barcelo Imperial 21 with you or a Presidente.
Cheers
Alain
I have to wait 2 more years for freedom 50. All my kids will be finished school except my step-son(Dominican) and I think he will be going to PUMCC. I also think there are good opportunities in the DR, and like to think I can have a positive effect on a least one Dominican.
To keep on Topic, my wife is proud of being Dominican, and gets a little insulted when she is mistaken for being from another Latin country. Jose, interesting enough, came back from the summer in Jarabacoa dressed and acting like a little street hood from the Bronx, but after several months of school, he has decided that the shaved head, ...etc, just doesn't fit in here in Hockey Country.
To keep on Topic, my wife is proud of being Dominican, and gets a little insulted when she is mistaken for being from another Latin country. Jose, interesting enough, came back from the summer in Jarabacoa dressed and acting like a little street hood from the Bronx, but after several months of school, he has decided that the shaved head, ...etc, just doesn't fit in here in Hockey Country.
Hey Capo,
I agree with most of what you are saying except for this little piece right here. Many of us Dominican-Americans simply see ourselves as Dominicans because of the fact that we have consciously decided to NOT lose our culture (which is something that is so easy to do here). Por el simple hecho de que tu naciste all? y yo aqu? no quiere decir nada...it all has to do with how you are raised and whether or not you decide to completely assimilate with the culture of the country you were born in. Sure we are American by virtue of the fact that we were born in the US, and of course we follow some American traditions, but you cannot seriously tell me that we are not Dominican as well!!
Yari
capodominicano said:
I agree with most of what you are saying except for this little piece right here. Many of us Dominican-Americans simply see ourselves as Dominicans because of the fact that we have consciously decided to NOT lose our culture (which is something that is so easy to do here). Por el simple hecho de que tu naciste all? y yo aqu? no quiere decir nada...it all has to do with how you are raised and whether or not you decide to completely assimilate with the culture of the country you were born in. Sure we are American by virtue of the fact that we were born in the US, and of course we follow some American traditions, but you cannot seriously tell me that we are not Dominican as well!!
Yari