- Thread starter lisagauss
- Start date
does danilo have a proposed program for la delincuencia?
Brazil recently did that with some success. They sent in joint military and police patrols to clean up the worst of the favelas in Rio. It is worth trying in select barrios like Capotillo and Cristo Rey in Santo Domingo.
I was speaking to a friend last night that lives in Cerros de Gurabo 3; his is not a fancy house but his area isn't a barrio; its a decent middle class to upper-middle class area. There is a small colmado that got held up at gun point by 2 guys in a car 2 nights ago. They pulled up, ordered all the customers to hit the ground, and ordered the colmado owner to hand over all he's got. They got away with a little over $5K pesos. No one was injured of course other than the mental anguish. This got me thinking, why would 2 guys in a car rob a colmado? Why not go for something bigger, a bank, or a gas station or a banca de apuesta?
Could the increase in armed robberies in DR be mostly attributed to the drug cartels? Im not talking about chain snatchers or purse snatchers, Im talking about crimes with weapons (guns). If you read the news you will notice an increase in seizures of drugs from both the DNCD and the DEA within the last year. It could be that these cartels are retaliating by arming criminals and creating a destabilized, fearful society in an attempt to get the government to ease up on there business.
Could the increase in armed robberies in DR be mostly attributed to the drug cartels? Im not talking about chain snatchers or purse snatchers, Im talking about crimes with weapons (guns). If you read the news you will notice an increase in seizures of drugs from both the DNCD and the DEA within the last year. It could be that these cartels are retaliating by arming criminals and creating a destabilized, fearful society in an attempt to get the government to ease up on there business.
No, I doubt the cartels are arming the populace. It is most likely deportees or addicts looking for a quick and easy score.
Think about it, an addict with a car robbing people with a gun? Most of the addicts (in the US at least) Ive heard of (crackheads) rob a convenience store with maybe a knife, or would rather snatch a purse take the money and buy some crack/heroine, etc. But pulling up to a business with guns and all, I think that is beyond a simple drug fix.
It is really thousands of unemployable deportees with long criminal histories doing what they only know how to do. By maintaining ties back to NY or Miami it is very easy to get guns via containers or even tanques of rice and clothing.
The deportee theory sounds good now that I think about it; we got a **** load of them a couple of months ago.
Sorry to tell you, but you're wrong Frank. Deportees are not holding up Colmados or even represent the bulk of crimes committed in The DR. They get a bad rap, but the reality is when these guys go back most just want to leave the country and go back to The US, Spain or whatever. Most go back to the quiet life they had before they went to The US or try to start up some business (most times without any long term success). Many of them also work in call centers.
Now there are some who do get involved in the drug business down there or even worse kidnappings, murder for hire Apresan supuesto sicario de 12 personas - Hoy Digital , http://cotuiahora.blogspot.com/2010/01/jefe-pn-condena-puesta-en-libertad.html, etc...but these guys are normally looking to make lots of dough, not a few thousands pesos. The ones holding up Colmados, banca spots, etc...are typically drug addicts looking for a quick score.
In terms of the guns there may be a few that brought into the country via containers, etc...but by far the majority come in via Haiti...and of course there are the so called "chilenas" which are home made and there is always a guy or two in these barrios who knows how to make these and sells them for cheap.
Now there are some who do get involved in the drug business down there or even worse kidnappings, murder for hire Apresan supuesto sicario de 12 personas - Hoy Digital , http://cotuiahora.blogspot.com/2010/01/jefe-pn-condena-puesta-en-libertad.html, etc...but these guys are normally looking to make lots of dough, not a few thousands pesos. The ones holding up Colmados, banca spots, etc...are typically drug addicts looking for a quick score.
In terms of the guns there may be a few that brought into the country via containers, etc...but by far the majority come in via Haiti...and of course there are the so called "chilenas" which are home made and there is always a guy or two in these barrios who knows how to make these and sells them for cheap.
Danilo
Oh Boy. Lisa are you another one of these closet fascists/communists/statists who hate individual liberty and secretly hate people ?? "...release the army on the streets ..." are you nuts ?? so now to combat delincuencia you want to turn this society into an armed camp over run by law enforcement who have little to no tradition of respecting rule of law and human rights ....way to solve the so called problem.
Lets get this straight.
1. DR - for a society of its size, population, stage of development and modernity, has no crime problem. by and large if you mind your own business, don't flash, dont hang with the wrong element , you will be fine.
2. What crime there is caused by desperate economic circumstances exacerbated by the government itself. If Danilo want to help, the first thing he should do is reform the outrageous and byzantine rules that make investing and starting a business here difficult. This would immediately reduce unemployment and assist in tax revenue collection so that economy can go formal rather than informal. Secondly, scrap any and all plans to make things harder fro expats adn tourist who have money to spend.
3. Two guys robbing a colmado at gun point in the DR smacks of only two causes: 1. desperation and hunger or 2. drug addiction. For the former, food staples prices have gone up due to inflation which is really pinching the lower classes. I suggest then that Danilo stop mortgaging his countries future with excess debt from WB and IMF which inflates the currency and will call for the inevitable "austerity" - to be extracted from the lower classes and productive small - medium business class. He should also make a phone call to Mr. Ben Bernanke - and tell him to stop the printing presses on US currency which is exporting a horrible inflation around the world and finds itself directing the prices of commodities and food stuffs.
As for the drugs, he should immediately legalize/decriminalize small portions of drugs. This will immediately weaken the cartels since much of the profit comes from the fact that the product is illegal (see Prohibition) - also reduce it glamor and taboo ness. The immediate financial saving that would accrue from thereby reducing DCN could be funneled into widely accesible and free/cheap drug treatment facilities for those who find themselves addicted.
All this is feasible without having to turn the DR into an quasi armed camp like manhy are trying to do to the US - in the name of: "preventing crime/delincuencia", "stopping drugs", "protecting "the children", "stopping the terrorists"........or whatever the excuse du jour is for the state to be able to terrorize regular folks, destroy individual liberty, and destroying overall quality of life.
Furthermore, sending out that "army" is not cheap.
Oh Boy. Lisa are you another one of these closet fascists/communists/statists who hate individual liberty and secretly hate people ?? "...release the army on the streets ..." are you nuts ?? so now to combat delincuencia you want to turn this society into an armed camp over run by law enforcement who have little to no tradition of respecting rule of law and human rights ....way to solve the so called problem.
Lets get this straight.
1. DR - for a society of its size, population, stage of development and modernity, has no crime problem. by and large if you mind your own business, don't flash, dont hang with the wrong element , you will be fine.
2. What crime there is caused by desperate economic circumstances exacerbated by the government itself. If Danilo want to help, the first thing he should do is reform the outrageous and byzantine rules that make investing and starting a business here difficult. This would immediately reduce unemployment and assist in tax revenue collection so that economy can go formal rather than informal. Secondly, scrap any and all plans to make things harder fro expats adn tourist who have money to spend.
3. Two guys robbing a colmado at gun point in the DR smacks of only two causes: 1. desperation and hunger or 2. drug addiction. For the former, food staples prices have gone up due to inflation which is really pinching the lower classes. I suggest then that Danilo stop mortgaging his countries future with excess debt from WB and IMF which inflates the currency and will call for the inevitable "austerity" - to be extracted from the lower classes and productive small - medium business class. He should also make a phone call to Mr. Ben Bernanke - and tell him to stop the printing presses on US currency which is exporting a horrible inflation around the world and finds itself directing the prices of commodities and food stuffs.
As for the drugs, he should immediately legalize/decriminalize small portions of drugs. This will immediately weaken the cartels since much of the profit comes from the fact that the product is illegal (see Prohibition) - also reduce it glamor and taboo ness. The immediate financial saving that would accrue from thereby reducing DCN could be funneled into widely accesible and free/cheap drug treatment facilities for those who find themselves addicted.
All this is feasible without having to turn the DR into an quasi armed camp like manhy are trying to do to the US - in the name of: "preventing crime/delincuencia", "stopping drugs", "protecting "the children", "stopping the terrorists"........or whatever the excuse du jour is for the state to be able to terrorize regular folks, destroy individual liberty, and destroying overall quality of life.
Furthermore, sending out that "army" is not cheap.
I agree with this. All I am saying is that no country has more people in jail than the USA. The criminals in the USA are more hardcore and sophisticated. There are neighborhoods where everyone sells drugs and has been to jail a few times. Many people just do not care or give a crap in life in the USA. I have seen schools and neighborhoods where the kids from the age of 4 and over, they learn how to sell drugs and use them and rob people in school. Robbing and committing crimes is a luxury and not a wrongdoing like the DR. The hardened American criminal entering the DR is like a non native snake species entering Florida and destroying the wildlife ecosystems in the reserves or like a foreign bug that destroys farm crops. It is deadly for the DR.
I would have agreed with you 100% if it would have been 10 years ago. But recently, within the past 1-2 years I would say this has drastically changed. Many regular folks are getting robbed at gun point. Its not just the guy riding around or walking around in a desolate area at odd hours of the night. Here are some stories Ive been told from relatives/friends...
1- Santiago, in the parking lot of Pizzarelli a grand mother was held up at gun point by two guys on a motorcycle to get her chain. Yes, I know she was wearing some flash but a few years ago this would have been a snatch and not an armed robbery.
2- Santiago, a friend of mine was walking to his car in los jardinez. As he approched his car a guy storms out of a colmado across the street pointing a gun at the colmado. My friend was shot at twice by the guy as he jumped in his car. This happened 4 months ago.
3- Santiago, my father in law was in a store and it two guys walked in with guns and robbed the place. He was wearing a chain and they also took that. This happened about 3 years ago.
4- Santiago, my brother was eating dinner at a friends house and they needed to go to the colmado to buy some beers. As they were walking a motorcycle with 2 guys passed by them. As they exchanged eye contact the motor cycle went to do a u turn and the driver lost control of the bike and they both fell over; as did a gun out of the passengers side. Everyone looked at the two guys and they immediately got on their bike and sped off. That was a close call.
The point is that these types of crimes, involving guns, weren't that common 5 - 10 years ago. Am I wrong?
gun crime DR
What you say may be true. maybe there are more hard core deportees around or maybe there are more guns around. But these crimes are most likely the result of a increased desperation and/or drug addiction. The solution is either event is to create conditions that foster economic growth and decriminalizing drugs.
Furthermore, Dominicans seem to be tough bunch who know exactly how to deal with delicuentes - The State should stay out of the way of the average citizen being able to arm themselves . In the same time span you site, the government has also made it more difficult or discourage gun ownership - the result of these types are regulations are always predictable: the criminals get their hands on illegal arms and have no fear of using them because they know the law abiding citizens are most likely unarmed.
I assure you once a few of these ladrones gets their heads blown off by a ****ed off colmado owner, the word will spread and they'll think twice.
What you say may be true. maybe there are more hard core deportees around or maybe there are more guns around. But these crimes are most likely the result of a increased desperation and/or drug addiction. The solution is either event is to create conditions that foster economic growth and decriminalizing drugs.
Furthermore, Dominicans seem to be tough bunch who know exactly how to deal with delicuentes - The State should stay out of the way of the average citizen being able to arm themselves . In the same time span you site, the government has also made it more difficult or discourage gun ownership - the result of these types are regulations are always predictable: the criminals get their hands on illegal arms and have no fear of using them because they know the law abiding citizens are most likely unarmed.
I assure you once a few of these ladrones gets their heads blown off by a ****ed off colmado owner, the word will spread and they'll think twice.
Actually, if you read the news, most people who get killed during these armed robberies are armed themselves and they try to pull there weapons. They are left without their gun and their life.
Basta Ya!
1. What do you mean by " ****ed" ? :tired:
The simple fact that even a colmado owner needs to be armed to protect his small business is alarming.
2. There were a good number of robbers killed by 'colmaderos' or watchmen of businesses.
However, this has not reduced the numbers of 'atracos'.
donP
Maybe?
I do not care about an explanation, the people want those crimes to stop, and so do I.
1. What do you mean by " ****ed" ? :tired:
The simple fact that even a colmado owner needs to be armed to protect his small business is alarming.
2. There were a good number of robbers killed by 'colmaderos' or watchmen of businesses.
However, this has not reduced the numbers of 'atracos'.
donP
All is good.
I am sure, after this insight, Frank need not to be worried any more...
donP
I am sure, after this insight, Frank need not to be worried any more...
donP