Dominican American Experience

[the gorgon]

You said it. Each trip down here is a plane full of people going "home" for 2-3 month vacations. While their family buys groceries with their snap cards.
My wife has been in NYC for under two months. Dominicans have offered to show her how to get food stamps and medicaid. She has no need for either.

While visiting a customer in Miami they had a female employee that upon learning of my wife's residency status tell her she can ditch me in two years, lol.
They had just met mind you and just assumed a dominicana would want that. Sad really.

my very good friend from Canada lives with a wonderful Dominican lady, who is very ambitious and independent, and wants to get ahead in life. my buddy is pretty well heeled, and she told her friends that since she does not have to work, she is going to use the opportunity to go to college and get herself a decent education.

they all wanted to know why she would bother with that, now that she has her gringo.

 

[GinzaGringo]

I am not sure what rfp meant about the disaster that is the Dominican-American experience. It seems like New York may, at this point, be the second largest Dominican city in the world, second only to Santo Domingo (I bet NYC has more Dominicans than Santiago, even, I'll let someone else look that up). With a place as big as NYC with that many Dominicans there are going to be wild success stories and wild failure stories. Generally how are Dominicans doing... who the hell knows. We'll have to wait a couple of decades before we can label Dominicans an immigration success story or an immigration failure story.

Will Dominicans integrate and be upwardly mobile like the waves of immigration that preceded them? Good question, impossible to answer.

With all that said, my own personal experience with the Dominican-American experience suggests to me that some cultural adjustments will be necessary before Dominicans can claim to be a successful immigrant group. There does seem to be a prevailing attitude in certain segments of Dominican society whereby scamming the system is acceptable behavior. Any society, or group within a society, in which large portions of the population hold that attitude, is doomed to languish in poverty and disrepair. In the dominant sections of American society that sort of behavior is, rightfully, looked down upon.

 

[Marianopolita]

there are quite a few Dominicans in Montreal, and parts of Toronto. quite a few exotic dancers working in bars on Bloor and Landsdowne St, and on Yonge Street. just ask for the House of Lancaster, for starters.

'Quite a few Dominicans in Montreal' is an understatement. Montreal is the Mecca of the Dominican community in Canada. Many came in the decade of the 90's and formed their own business in Montreal. For e.g. many own shops, restaurants, corner stores, hair salons (either barber shops or hairdressing salons) as well as music stores and currency exchange stores. Like any other community you have the successful ones and those who tarnished their own reputation by their non-professional behavior or not adapting to Canadian expectations. However, I am sure they learned from their experience. For the most part many have done well and any business contributes to the overall economy which in Montreal has been on the downside for decades.

Anyone who is familiar with Montreal the Dominican community is centered around:

La Peque?a Italia (Little Italy)

Montreal West/ East- around the dividing line- Jean-Talon Ouest over Boul. St. Laurent

Montreal East

Some Dominicans have started to move out to the suburbs such as Laval and RDP (Rivi?re-des-Prairies)


Overall Toronto has a larger Latin community (numbers wise) but much less Dominicans. Toronto is very spread out whereas (the island of) Montreal is smaller and the city is easier to move around from area to area.


-MP.

 

[curlando]

In the United States to make it you must work hard, especially if you're an immigrant. Most Dominican immigrants arrive in the US without the proper education, skills and/or without learning the English language. Plus, most Dominican residents think everyone in the US is rich. It's not their fault. Dominicans living in the US send cash and food barrels to DR to support their families, also when a Dominicans travel back to DR they look and dress like they hit the lottery in the US. It's an entertaining show for me when I'm sitting in JFK terminal going to DR.

Most Dominicans residing in the US are hard working and work long hours just to make ends me. They work as porters, car mechanics, hair stylist, taxi drivers, Home Health Aids and etc. Those are the ones that want to work.
For example, I know a Dominican young lady arrived in the US, enrolled in an English speaking language courses for about two years and is taking college course now and is speaking English better than I can.
I know a few, got married, arrived in the US and found some excuse to separate from their husbands and is barely surviving on their own.

Now, the lazy people that sit around waiting for handouts, perform at midnight for a living or advertise in Backpage. Sooner or later they will be on line at Social Services doorstep, but like a cop in a donut shop they are already on receiving freebees.

 

[the gorgon]

In the United States to make it you must work hard, especially if you're an immigrant. Most Dominican immigrants arrive in the US without the proper education, skills and/or without learning the English language. Plus, most Dominican residents think everyone in the US is rich. It's not their fault. Dominicans living in the US send cash and food barrels to DR to support their families, also when a Dominicans travel back to DR they look and dress like they hit the lottery in the US. It's an entertaining show for me when I'm sitting in JFK terminal going to DR.

Most Dominicans residing in the US are hard working and work long hours just to make ends me. They work as porters, car mechanics, hair stylist, taxi drivers, Home Health Aids and etc. Those are the ones that want to work.
For example, I know a Dominican young lady arrived in the US, enrolled in an English speaking language courses for about two years and is taking college course now and is speaking English better than I can.
I know a few, got married, arrived in the US and found some excuse to separate from their husbands and is barely surviving on their own.

Now, the lazy people that sit around waiting for handouts, perform at midnight for a living or advertise in Backpage. Sooner or later they will be on line at Social Services doorstep, but like a cop in a donut shop they are already on receiving freebees.

the problem with Dominican immigration is that it is not a brain drain. the schools in the british caribbean produce too many educated people in comparison to job availability, so a lot of the better brains in the country flee to places like the UK and the USA to find work. the DR, on the other hand, sends hordes of uneducated, unprepared people to the developed world, and it is difficult to get into the mainstream of decent paying jobs, especially with the language barrier. so, at least for the first generation, they are stuck with the same things they did back home...hairdresser, barber, handyman, fast food server. because their relatives in the Heights take pictures of themselves standing beside a Bentley, in Shrub Oak, and tell Belkis that it is their car, and their neighborhood, people believe that they will no longer peeling potatoes in a comedor, but supervising a department of Microsoft. they go home for vacation dressed in suits they rented from a pawnshop, and which are due the day they get back from vacation. the rubes back home all want to be on the outbound flight with them.

reality sets in , real fast.

 

[Lando calrisian]

I used to live in Montreal, NDG.... I felt like going to a church service one day.
I enter the place and poof I bump into the mother of an old friend and she asks alarmed.... "Y que tu hace aqui"?, she thought I had tracked her down to give her bad news!!

I told her "No, no es una coicidencia". She didn't believe me and almost fainted because she thought something had happened to her son and I didn't want to tell her.

We had to call her son and he told her he didn't even know I was there.
then he asked me...
"Y que tu hace aqui"?

LC

 

[Africaida]

the problem with Dominican immigration is that it is not a brain drain. the schools in the british caribbean produce too many educated people in comparison to job availability, so a lot of the better brains in the country flee to places like the UK and the USA to find work..

I think for the waves of immigration also evolve. I have been to Caribbean hood in Brooklyn and they look EXACTLY like the Dominican one except you hear Dancehall. Also, go to the wealthy area on Manhattan, most nannies are Caribbean, they don't seem to hold a doctorate.

I studied at CUNY engineering school, I didn't seem like there was a more British Carib than Dominican.

That's my observation.

 

[Africaida]

In the United States to make it you must work hard, especially if you're an immigrant. Most Dominican immigrants arrive in the US without the proper education, skills and/or without learning the English language. Plus, most Dominican residents think everyone in the US is rich. It's not their fault. Dominicans living in the US send cash and food barrels to DR to support their families, also when a Dominicans travel back to DR they look and dress like they hit the lottery in the US. It's an entertaining show for me when I'm sitting in JFK terminal going to DR.

You could substitute Dominican in your post for Mexicans, Honduran, Africans....most developing countries.

 

[the gorgon]

I think for the waves of immigration also evolve. I have been to Caribbean hood in Brooklyn and they look EXACTLY like the Dominican one except you hear Dancehall. Also, go to the wealthy area on Manhattan, most nannies are Caribbean, they don't seem to hold a doctorate.

I studied at CUNY engineering school, I didn't seem like there was a more British Carib than Dominican.

That's my observation.

i agree when you describe what you see. it is the unseen that matters. the median income of Jamaicans is far higher, the howme ownership is higher, and things like insurance is higher.

 

[Africaida]

i agree when you describe what you see. it is the unseen that matters. the median income of Jamaicans is far higher, the howme ownership is higher, and things like insurance is higher.

Yes and NO. Jamaicans are just behind Dominicans for Aliens deported for criminal offenses (Although, DR deportees as twice as much, but you also could argue that Jamaica is about fifth of the population).

All I am saying is that you may have a slightly idealized view because yourself comes from an educated background or a different times. But, I can insure you that at the moment, few people in NY, Miami hold that perception of Jamaicans (although they are surely better off than Dominicans).

http://www.dhs.gov/publication/yearbook-immigration-statistics-2013-enforcement-actions

Very interesting reports by the way Ffrom USCIS

 

[4*4*4]

You could substitute Dominican in your post for Mexicans, Honduran, Africans....most developing countries.

Africaida, I completely agree with you and you can add many other areas of the world as well as European immigrants from the early 20th century. The singling out of Dominicans used to make my head explode. However, the point that slowly sunk into my head is that Dominicans are isolated in the discussion is because this is a Dominican Forum.

 

[Africaida]

Africaida, I completely agree with you and you can add many other areas of the world as well as European immigrants from the early 20th century. The singling out of Dominicans used to make my head explode. However, the point that slowly sunk into my head is that Dominicans are isolated in the discussion is because this is a Dominican Forum.

I know I just want to point out that it is not something inherently Dominicans.
It is an immigrant from poor to rich thingy.

I am among the minority who think Dominican American are not doing bad, with what they started with.

 

[4*4*4]

I know I just want to point out that it is not something inherently Dominicans.
It is an immigrant from poor to rich thingy.

I am among the minority who think Dominican American are not doing bad, with what they started with.

I am with you 100%. Also, it is possible that those that agree with us are simply not as vocal as those opposed.

 

[the gorgon]

Yes and NO. Jamaicans are just behind Dominicans for Aliens deported for criminal offenses (Although, DR deportees as twice as much, but you also could argue that Jamaica is about fifth of the population).

All I am saying is that you may have a slightly idealized view because yourself comes from an educated background or a different times. But, I can insure you that at the moment, few people in NY, Miami hold that perception of Jamaicans (although they are surely better off than Dominicans).

http://www.dhs.gov/publication/yearbook-immigration-statistics-2013-enforcement-actions

Very interesting reports by the way Ffrom USCIS

actually, on the matter of deportation, the only people you can include in the statistic are the people who are eligible for deportation, whch would be the people living in the USA. the fact that the DR has 4 times the population is irrelevant, because the ones who are still in the respective countries cannot be deported.

 

[the gorgon]

I know I just want to point out that it is not something inherently Dominicans.
It is an immigrant from poor to rich thingy.

I am among the minority who think Dominican American are not doing bad, with what they started with.

actually, we are not far off in what we are saying. Dominicans are doing reasonably well, given the disadvantage of having to learn a different language, and coming from a country with an abysmal education system. secondly, i referred to the caribbean, not just Jamaica. the home ownership of people like the Guyanese is higher than that of Jamaica, which is 57%. that of the DT is 26%.

 

[Africaida]

actually, on the matter of deportation, the only people you can include in the statistic are the people who are eligible for deportation, whch would be the people living in the USA. the fact that the DR has 4 times the population is irrelevant, because the ones who are still in the respective countries cannot be deported.

You are absolutely right and I thought about it afterwards.
I just do not have the stat for the number of Jamaicans in the US versus Dominicans.

 

[the gorgon]

You are absolutely right and I thought about it afterwards.
I just do not have the stat for the number of Jamaicans in the US versus Dominicans.

the numbers are pretty close. i think it would be something like a million Dominicans to 800,000 Jamaicans.

 

[rafael]

the problem with Dominican immigration is that it is not a brain drain. the schools in the british caribbean produce too many educated people in comparison to job availability, so a lot of the better brains in the country flee to places like the UK and the USA to find work. the DR, on the other hand, sends hordes of uneducated, unprepared people to the developed world, and it is difficult to get into the mainstream of decent paying jobs, especially with the language barrier. so, at least for the first generation, they are stuck with the same things they did back home...hairdresser, barber, handyman, fast food server. because their relatives in the Heights take pictures of themselves standing beside a Bentley, in Shrub Oak, and tell Belkis that it is their car, and their neighborhood, people believe that they will no longer peeling potatoes in a comedor, but supervising a department of Microsoft. they go home for vacation dressed in suits they rented from a pawnshop, and which are due the day they get back from vacation. the rubes back home all want to be on the outbound flight with them.

reality sets in , real fast.

Did you know that when a dominican or other immigrant sponsors a family member, they file an AOS or afidavit of support. I had to do the same for my wife.
Even though the bar is set VERY low. Something like 125% of poverty level I have heard of many dominicans that can't qualify, still bringing their family as they just get a "co signer".
Sorry but that is effed up. Someone that can barely support themselves if that, keeps bringing even less qualified kin into country while recent MIT grads get sent packing.

Our immigration system is effed.

 

[caribNY]

I think for the waves of immigration also evolve. I have been to Caribbean hood in Brooklyn and they look EXACTLY like the Dominican one except you hear Dancehall. Also, go to the wealthy area on Manhattan, most nannies are Caribbean, they don't seem to hold a doctorate.

I studied at CUNY engineering school, I didn't seem like there was a more British Carib than Dominican.

That's my observation.

While the West Indian migrants aren't the success story of two decades ago, welfare usage is lower than it is among Dominican immigrants. Median household incomes are higher, and home ownership much higher.

Reasons for this. A higher % of migrants with high school completion, far higher female involvement in the labor force (many are nurses), and of course arriving not only speaking English, but having a better understanding of the Anglo American work culture.

An interesting comparison will be comparing Haitian and Dominican immigrants into NYC. BOTH arriving with English language deficiencies.
32% of Haitians are home owners, whereas only 7% of Dominicans are.
Only 20% of Haitians arrive without high school education, whereas 45% of Dominicans do (this being the key factor for Dominicans, as they are among the least educated immigrants into NYC).
19% of Haitians have at least a college degree, whereas only 13% of Dominicans do (indications are that this is higher than among non Immigrants blacks and Puerto Ricans in NYC). Related to this 20% of Dominican kids fail to graduate high school whereas only 6% of Haitians are in this category.
33% of Dominicans live in poverty whereas only 17% of Haitians do.
The median household income in 2011 for Haitians was $49k, whereas it was only $25k for Dominicans.
Haitians also had higher English proficiency than did Dominicans, with over 50% speaking it "very well" compared to just 30% of Dominicans.

Interestingly enough less than 10% of Dominicans were on public assistance. While this was way above average for all groups in NYC, it puts a lie to the myth that most Dominicans in NYC are on welfare. I don't know if food stamps is included in this.

The big determining fact in success appears to be educational levels. Even though Haitians arrive with English language deficiencies, they only slightly under perform Jamaicans in terms of their socio economic status. In fact both Haitians and Jamaicans are MORE likely to be home owners, and have HIGHER median household incomes than immigrants on the whole, even though they are slightly LESS educated than the average immigrant.

So the second determining factor is female involvement in the labor force and their success in earning decent incomes. BOTH Haitian and Jamaican females perform quite well as immigrants in the labor force, both in terms of their employment, and in terms of what they earn. Dominican females much less so. I don't know if there is some thing cultural there.

 

[caribNY]

Yes and NO. Jamaicans are just behind Dominicans for Aliens deported for criminal offenses http://www.dhs.gov/publication/yearbook-immigration-statistics-2013-enforcement-actions

Very interesting reports by the way Ffrom USCIS

Given that only a small minority of Jamaicans and Dominicans are involved in criminal activities and then deported, I fail to see what citing either statistic indicates.

The indicators of success are median household incomes, educational attainment, home ownership and poverty levels.

What is evident is that the DR sends a much less prepared immigrant into NYC than is the case for other Caribbean nations, even inclusive of Haiti. So life is harder for them.

In fact if one adds data for migrants from the English speaking Caribbean from the entire of the USA the gap gets even wider was then we see the impact of the massive brain drain from those countries, so a comparison with NYC becomes a little bit fairer as the populations less reflect the highly educated.

What seems to be the case for Haitians into NYC is that this is clearer a selective pool as I don't think that Haitians in FL are as educated. The reverse is true for Jamaicans, as their upper middle class tends to prefer living in FL than NY (similar climate and quality of life to back home).