Dominican Beliefs

[Hillbilly]

Following my friend Tordok

Allow me to state a few principles of the Sociaological Approach to History.
1) All groups MUST resolve a very basic and UNIVERSAL necessity: They have to answer the Question: Why am I here?

In order to do this, they have to develop some sort of metaphysical explanation as well as develop an escathalogy (dealing with final things).

This Christians, Muslums, Jews, Hindus etc have done quite well.

Dawn's "Whomever" somebody else's Lord...They are there all the time in some shape or form...

That said: Catholics have no beef with Darwin. None at all. As long as it is accepted that when Man became cognicent he is accepted as having a soul, the Catholics have no problem with evolution.

The nonsence that is now cropping up like weeds is pure malarky, that is for sure..and this is not Dominican beliefs. Dominicans don't know Darwin from their butts! Nor do they know the "Religious Right" that spouts the bologny called "alternates creationism" ...

Now, as a people, as so many have stated, quite rightly--I laughted to see so many women being submitted to these beliefs-Dominicans do have a plethora of incredible folktales.

And by the way, that thing about opening the fridge is fairly modern....

Ones I have heard:
1) A young woman "coming of age" can't eat any citrus fruit.
2) That black "thingy" is called a "Asabache" and is used to ward off the "mal de ojo" .
3) That little bag worn around the neck of those naked little children is filled with garlic to ward off really evil spirits.
4) If you come across a set of crossed branches on your doorstep, watch out. Someone had done a "job" on you.
5) If things are going bad, a dip in the ocean will wash away the bad spirits.

There are others, but I am too tired....

Love and peace to you all, and to all a good night.

HB

 

[asopao]

Most of the Santeria/voodoo practices is in the following of Yoruban Iwa religion. So that's the flavor/picante we add.

Because I love to conserve energy and gas, I don't drive an SUV. LOL I am also glad that all things come to an end...even the basic tenet of thermodynamic says so. However, I recognize that we only use 10% of our brain capacity.

Indeed T, I am with Q on this one. There is something to that "the sixth sense" some blessed people have.

Wish I can talk about this topic for a while but I'll be internet-less this weekend.

Spiritually yours,
D

Is Santeria an import from Cuba to DR?

I don't think Vodou is Yoruba origin. I've read is of Ewe origin, an ethnicity in what is now Togo.

 

[Tordok]

Quisqueya & Deelt,
We could reduce my beliefs into Deism. I'm open to the presence of a spiritual reality but based on the use of reason and not supertstition. It blends scientific rigor with mystic awe, and no rituals nor dogmas are needed to feel the blessings of Nature and to be in communion with mankind.

My statements essentially reflect my view that there are many things for which science is the best tool around, but quite insufficient to help us grasp our whole 'perceived' reality. I am therefore unable to profess the more extreme materialistic- "soul-less" - views. So religious beliefs and myths are metaphors for something we perceive to be there, but cannot decode. Maybe divinely preordained, maybe a species-specific delusion.

I happen to think that there are forces that are a mystery to us. I do believe that there are forms of communication among humans and nature for which we can't find the right 'frequency' or physical mechanism. But I am always tempted to consider something mopre simple, like tricks of consciuosness coming from overachieving neurons. Such beliefs IMO do not invalidate the transcendentalism and benefits of meditation or prayer. It is when people start telling me that they KNOW what God wants because it was so written by some tribal goatherder several millenia ago, I get a bit testy.

But I do respect even those kinds of beliefs because I expect mine to be considered just as valid. We are allowed to fantasize about the ethereal realms of our lives in different ways and still share and grow in our humanity. It would be much less colorful without the cultural legaciy of our ancestors, whom with their limited knowledge of science developed a variety of cute pagan rituals but also other not-so-cute folk faiths, like blood rites and cannibalism in many cultures. Talismanes and other regalia, evil eye, etc IMO is pretty harmless stuff really, and very rich in human psychology. Those things are remnants of our superstitious past as a species. The real danger comes from religious fanatics with political agendas in today's world. Those rigid, and often brainless, dogmas keep many people divorced from their own natural qualities and away from forming a genuine brotherhood of mankind.
- Tordok

for more info on Deism:
http://www.deism.org/frames.htm

 

[deelt]

Sorry Asopao I can't get into an in depth discussion with you on this one.
It's just not my area of expertise. But my gut reaction based on what I have read is that Santeria and Vodou are just strains are all of Yoruba origin, something withi is spread region wide and is not nation specific. So basically there is not right or wrong here.

The differences lie in that as slaves were forced to convert to catholism they superimposed the name of their favored saints on the spirits they were accostumed to praising/praying to. Thus when the slave masters came around they throught it was one thing when it was another.

Ex. Chango/Candelo (Santa Barbara) = Orisa/Orisha

The church also did their best to incorporate the pagan rituals into mainstream "holidays". This is why Carnival is everywhere in Lat. Am and Caribbean where there are folks of color.

Is Santeria an import from Cuba to DR?

I don't think Vodou is Yoruba origin. I've read is of Ewe origin, an ethnicity in what is now Togo.

 

[deelt]

We agree in much with regards to the use of talismen and other such things. I would even recognize the context in which you define "transcendentalism and benefits of meditation or prayer." As for the Bible, I am sure you know where I stand on that....it is what faith is all about. But for me it is not incongruent. Everything is not detailed in the Bible blow by blow. I think there is room for understanding, curiosity, and investigation.

Wish I could dialogue more but I have to run.
D

Quisqueya & Deelt,
We could reduce my beliefs into Deism. I'm open to the presence of a spiritual reality but based on the use of reason and not supertstition. It blends scientific rigor with mystic awe, and no rituals nor dogmas are needed to feel the blessings of Nature and to be in communion with mankind.

My statements essentially reflect my view that there are many things for which science is the best tool around, but quite insufficient to help us grasp our whole 'perceived' reality. I am therefore unable to profess the more extreme materialistic- "soul-less" - views. So religious beliefs and myths are metaphors for something we perceive to be there, but cannot decode. Maybe divinely preordained, maybe a species-specific delusion.

I happen to think that there are forces that are a mystery to us. I do believe that there are forms of communication among humans and nature for which we can't find the right 'frequency' or physical mechanism. But I am always tempted to consider something mopre simple, like tricks of consciuosness coming from overachieving neurons. Such beliefs IMO do not invalidate the transcendentalism and benefits of meditation or prayer. It is when people start telling me that they KNOW what God wants because it was so written by some tribal goatherder several millenia ago, I get a bit testy.

But I do respect even those kinds of beliefs because I expect mine to be considered just as valid. We are allowed to fantasize about the ethereal realms of our lives in different ways and still share and grow in our humanity. It would be much less colorful without the cultural legaciy of our ancestors, whom with their limited knowledge of science developed a variety of cute pagan rituals but also other not-so-cute folk faiths, like blood rites and cannibalism in many cultures. Talismanes and other regalia, evil eye, etc IMO is pretty harmless stuff really, and very rich in human psychology. Those things are remnants of our superstitious past as a species. The real danger comes from religious fanatics with political agendas in today's world. Those rigid, and often brainless, dogmas keep many people divorced from their own natural qualities and away from forming a genuine brotherhood of mankind.
- Tordok

for more info on Deism:
http://www.deism.org/frames.htm

 

[asdavila]

I am married to a Dominican

But being puertorrican the "expected dramatic cultural trauma" didn?t happen.

First santer?a and vodoo are different things. But that is not the toic here and if the difference need to stablished, I am not qualified. However I know they are not the same.

In Puerto Rico when I was raised, we didn?t have "santer?a", and vodoo I heard only in movies. There was, and still there is, a lot of "espiritismo" (Spiritism? sp), and you could find it in every social class, mainly among those so called catholics. Santer?a, I think is also practiced much more now than those days, mainly due to, IMO, to the cuban influence. Can?t say due to Dominican influence because it was there in the 70?s and in those days the Dominicans living in Puerto Rico were not that many.

Now, regardless of the cultural background of the people around me, I choose to believe in what I believe. And let others choose what they want to.
I don?t get into these arguments.

There has to be a variety of beliefs, we are so many and so complicated that probably God created something for each one of us. I myself don?t believe in Adam and Eve, but I respect those who do, and they are not going to steal my peace.

I live peacefully in Dominican Republic, and if the governments (all of them) of this great land allow me to... I will stay here until I die.

 

[Quisqueya]

Santeria and Voudou have its differences but also have alot of similarities. Both religion mix Catholic Saints with their respective dieties. The Orishas/Santeria and Lwa/Voudou are spirits originated from Yoruba & Dahomey tribes in West Africa.

Each island Cuba. Haiti & DR, Puerto Rico practice these religions and varies form country to country...

Santeria/Voudou was in Puerto Rico wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy b4 the Cubans or the Dominicans. The african slaves brought to the island of Puerto Rico practiced these religions as well. Places like Loiza are places where the Santeria/Voudou influence was very strong...which is still prevelant today..without the effect of the dominican/cuban exodus to Puerto Rico..

But being puertorrican the "expected dramatic cultural trauma" didn?t happen.

First santer?a and vodoo are different things. But that is not the toic here and if the difference need to stablished, I am not qualified. However I know they are not the same.

In Puerto Rico when I was raised, we didn?t have "santer?a", and vodoo I heard only in movies. There was, and still there is, a lot of "espiritismo" (Spiritism? sp), and you could find it in every social class, mainly among those so called catholics. Santer?a, I think is also practiced much more now than those days, mainly due to, IMO, to the cuban influence. Can?t say due to Dominican influence because it was there in the 70?s and in those days the Dominicans living in Puerto Rico were not that many.

Now, regardless of the cultural background of the people around me, I choose to believe in what I believe. And let others choose what they want to.
I don?t get into these arguments.

There has to be a variety of beliefs, we are so many and so complicated that probably God created something for each one of us. I myself don?t believe in Adam and Eve, but I respect those who do, and they are not going to steal my peace.

I live peacefully in Dominican Republic, and if the governments (all of them) of this great land allow me to... I will stay here until I die.

 

[Chirimoya]

Santeria (Cuba), vodou (Haiti), candomble (NE Brazil) and the 'religiosidad popular' rituals in the Dominican Republic... they are all very similar. There are many anthropological studies that trace all these syncretic beliefs to their African roots.

 

[NALs]

Santeria (Cuba), vodou (Haiti), candomble (NE Brazil) and the 'religiosidad popular' rituals in the Dominican Republic... they are all very similar. There are many anthropological studies that trace all these syncretic beliefs to their African roots.

In my opinion, they are all the samething.

Sure, there might be some minute differences, but its all pretty much the same.

However, its important to point out that these "religions" or "cults" (depends whose talking about this and their feelings towards this type of stuff) are a blend of African and European religious items, beliefs, prayers, among other things. There might be some native Taino influences, but that is hard to prove since the Taino's form of praying and "pleasing the Gods" is very similar to how these contemporary religions please their own God or Gods (ie. leaving food for the spirits, dancing, praying or using statues of Gods or saints, etc)

These religions are new world creations, they may have similarities to African religions and European religious (albeit, people have a tendency of ignoring the European part of these religions, such as the use of Catholic saints, etc) and thus are uniquely Hispanic or Latin American in nature. A blend of two or more cultures once again, except this is in religious terms.

It's also important that some of the superstitious belief that exist along mediterranean Europe (Spain, Portugal, Southern Italy, etc) are very similar to the belief of these new world religion, such as the belief in the evil eye, etc.

In southern Italy, for example, they even have "pray houses" where Italians leave a section of a doll (a leg, a head, or some other part) and some how those sections are suppose to represent that particular section in the person's body and thus, the Gods or spirits are suppose to heal it via the representation of the doll to the person. There are plenty of other similarity with new world religions as well.

My point in all of this is the following, these are unique new world religions. It's a result of the mixing of peoples from around the world that is prevailant in these region of the planet.

Thus, let's treat them as new world creations, because that's what they truly are.

They might have influences from many places, including Africa, Europe, maybe even from native indians, but that does not erases the fact that these religions came into their modern existence after the cultures began to mix, rather than before.

BTW, many Dominicans of all classes refer to curanderos and/or brujos from time to time. Of course, its more prevailant among the lower classes, but most Dominicans of all classes will visit a curandero or brujo at one point in their lives.

Of course, this is very hush hush, at all levels of society as well.

 

[Mirador]

Santeria (Cuba), vodou (Haiti), candomble (NE Brazil) and the 'religiosidad popular' rituals in the Dominican Republic... they are all very similar. There are many anthropological studies that trace all these syncretic beliefs to their African roots.

Most folk religious beliefs lack the defining institutional structures of dogma and priest(ess)hood. They're much like wild flowers that cross-pollinate with other beliefs (It would be pretentious to even call them belief 'systems'), continuously changing and morphing (syncretizing) over time. In the case of the DR, the folk religious belief system that shows the most structure is called 'La 21 Division'. It took me years of interviews with practitioners to find out that there's no such thing as 21 individual and separate divisions. That '21 Divisi?n' is an emblem, a symbol from unknown origin, used in a cabalistic manner, and stands for 'El Misterio'. In numerology 3 X 4 = 7, 7 X 3 = 21 goes way back, even to the Upanishads, as the number Seven was used to represent all association with God. And 3, the divine triad, La Sant?sima Trinidad....

 

[Chirimoya]

A similar thing happens in countries where the indigenous pre-Columbian cultures have survived - the indigenous beliefs survive in present day 'Catholic' rituals. The indigenous gods are worshipped in the form of Catholic saints. I've seen this in Guatemala and Mexico and I think it exists in the Andean region as well.

 

[NALs]

Quisqueya & Deelt,
We could reduce my beliefs into Deism. I'm open to the presence of a spiritual reality but based on the use of reason and not supertstition. It blends scientific rigor with mystic awe, and no rituals nor dogmas are needed to feel the blessings of Nature and to be in communion with mankind.

My statements essentially reflect my view that there are many things for which science is the best tool around, but quite insufficient to help us grasp our whole 'perceived' reality. I am therefore unable to profess the more extreme materialistic- "soul-less" - views. So religious beliefs and myths are metaphors for something we perceive to be there, but cannot decode. Maybe divinely preordained, maybe a species-specific delusion.

I happen to think that there are forces that are a mystery to us. I do believe that there are forms of communication among humans and nature for which we can't find the right 'frequency' or physical mechanism. But I am always tempted to consider something mopre simple, like tricks of consciuosness coming from overachieving neurons. Such beliefs IMO do not invalidate the transcendentalism and benefits of meditation or prayer. It is when people start telling me that they KNOW what God wants because it was so written by some tribal goatherder several millenia ago, I get a bit testy.

But I do respect even those kinds of beliefs because I expect mine to be considered just as valid. We are allowed to fantasize about the ethereal realms of our lives in different ways and still share and grow in our humanity. It would be much less colorful without the cultural legaciy of our ancestors, whom with their limited knowledge of science developed a variety of cute pagan rituals but also other not-so-cute folk faiths, like blood rites and cannibalism in many cultures. Talismanes and other regalia, evil eye, etc IMO is pretty harmless stuff really, and very rich in human psychology. Those things are remnants of our superstitious past as a species. The real danger comes from religious fanatics with political agendas in today's world. Those rigid, and often brainless, dogmas keep many people divorced from their own natural qualities and away from forming a genuine brotherhood of mankind.
- Tordok

for more info on Deism:
http://www.deism.org/frames.htm

Interesting post, Tordok.

Here is something to think about...

Well, first and foremost, I (as a Dominican and I suppose this is almost expected) was born into a Catholic household. I think I know every prayer there is in that religion, but currently I am not too close to Catholicism, despite the fact that if people ask me what my religion is, I will say Catholicism.

However, I am more akeen to reading the Bible (whether most of the stories were true or not is irrelevant to me, each story has a moral significance behind them that is good for the most part, thus its a good source of getting one's life in the good trajectory, in my opinion) rather than going to church and hearing the opinion of a preast of what the Bible says.

I think, if you do good, God will redeem you even if you never stepped foot in a church, but that is my own personal belief and by default, that makes me a non-Catholic since in order to be a real Catholic, one has to believe 100% in what it teaches, but that is besides the point.

However, pertaining to the existence of God, I stumbled upon an interesting fact using religion and science that has lead me to come up with interesting questions and I will present them here, just for the purpose of bringing this to light, as oppose to creating a debate around this.

According to religion, God was the creator of all things. God is everywhere, God is in everything, God has always existed, but God was never created and will never be destroyed, and God is not a being, but a spirit or a thing out there.

I never fully believed that inside of me, but I accepted it just how many religious people accept that today, though I think most people have some level of doubt as to how true that may be.

As I have stated, I did not fully believed in that until I read in a science book the definition of matter.

According to Science, Matter is everywhere, matter is in everything, matter has always existed, it cannot be created or destroyed. Matter forms part of every living and non living thing, in the air, in space, in everything.

This, of course, automatically leads to the belief that when ever some is created on its own (ie. a fetus forms with hands, legs, head etc, automatically out of thin air. Some how each cell which is identical in the Zigot stage evolves into distinct body parts, etc) what is creating that thing is matter. Matter is within that living creature, matter is around that living creature, matter is everything that creature is and everything that creature is not.

My questions are the following:

Given that the definition of what religion calls God and what science calls Matter is the exact same, is matter God? Is God matter?

Is what we call God, really matter? God is a hard consept to describe and so is matter.

I don't know the answer to these questions and I don't expect anyone to know, but whatever the answer it surely would be very interesting.

On the other hand, why do humans have an urge towards the spiritual?

Every civilization, group of humans, advanced or backwards have some form of spiritual belief, with a central God or the notion of Gods. Why is this the case? Why are we drawn to these beliefs, beliefs that may be different but all revolve around the notion of God or Gods?

If matter is God, and matter is in all of us and everything as Science has proven, then God or matter, is truly our spiritual being that we yern for so much and given that we are made up of God or matter, this perfectly explain the human urge to please some form of super natural being that we all sort of know exist, but given the hardship involved in proving this, we often attempt to distance ourselves from such notion of a God existing.

And guess what, as we use Science to "distance" ourselves from the notion of a God existing, Science is now giving us hints of the exact same description religion gave us when describing God, except that in Science we give it a different name.

What an interesting finding.

I think this is one of those questions that I know the answer deep down inside, but given the fear or inability to fully prove it, I would refrain from fully answering my very own questions, but I think what I have "discovered" here merits some extra attention from religions and scientific leaders of all kinds.

Is matter God? Is God matter?

Hmm...

 

[Quisqueya]

You bring up some interesting points which I've asked myself as well. As a Haitian, I too was brought up in a catholic household (yes most haitian are die hard catholics). Going to mass was mandatory and one would have to be halfway dead in order to skip mass.

Well, let me just go directly to your point that interest me. Matter & God are they the same? Hmmmm!!!! Lets see, how can I convey my ideas in a coherent manner. To be honest...I don't know? Well, let me just explain to you from my personal experiences. Religion & Science are closely related but one tends to be abstract & the other concrete. I was taught that God is a spiritual entity..He/She exist beyond the 3 Dimensional world. John 4:24 God is not within the boundaries of space. Psalm 90:4 Now while reading alot of science books I've learned that matter exist in everything which can be found in 3 states. I said to myself, mezanmi(Dios mio), this sounds like God... Like you, I would not dare go out on a limb to convince myself that God & Matter might be the same although deep down I felt science was on to something...

The Bible, to me, is science, math, biology, and physic books all in one which are conveyed in parables. Mankind have accomplished so much with science but there are too many things that we as mere mortals know nothing about...thus, I am greatful for mankinds contribution in deciphering some of the mysteries and continue praising God.....Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting post, Tordok.

Here is something to think about...

Well, first and foremost, I (as a Dominican and I suppose this is almost expected) was born into a Catholic household. I think I know every prayer there is in that religion, but currently I am not too close to Catholicism, despite the fact that if people ask me what my religion is, I will say Catholicism.

However, I am more akeen to reading the Bible (whether most of the stories were true or not is irrelevant to me, each story has a moral significance behind them that is good for the most part, thus its a good source of getting one's life in the good trajectory, in my opinion) rather than going to church and hearing the opinion of a preast of what the Bible says.

I think, if you do good, God will redeem you even if you never stepped foot in a church, but that is my own personal belief and by default, that makes me a non-Catholic since in order to be a real Catholic, one has to believe 100% in what it teaches, but that is besides the point.

However, pertaining to the existence of God, I stumbled upon an interesting fact using religion and science that has lead me to come up with interesting questions and I will present them here, just for the purpose of bringing this to light, as oppose to creating a debate around this.

According to religion, God was the creator of all things. God is everywhere, God is in everything, God has always existed, but God was never created and will never be destroyed, and God is not a being, but a spirit or a thing out there.

I never fully believed that inside of me, but I accepted it just how many religious people accept that today, though I think most people have some level of doubt as to how true that may be.

As I have stated, I did not fully believed in that until I read in a science book the definition of matter.

According to Science, Matter is everywhere, matter is in everything, matter has always existed, it cannot be created or destroyed. Matter forms part of every living and non living thing, in the air, in space, in everything.

This, of course, automatically leads to the belief that when ever some is created on its own (ie. a fetus forms with hands, legs, head etc, automatically out of thin air. Some how each cell which is identical in the Zigot stage evolves into distinct body parts, etc) what is creating that thing is matter. Matter is within that living creature, matter is around that living creature, matter is everything that creature is and everything that creature is not.

My questions are the following:

Given that the definition of what religion calls God and what science calls Matter is the exact same, is matter God? Is God matter?

Is what we call God, really matter? God is a hard consept to describe and so is matter.

I don't know the answer to these questions and I don't expect anyone to know, but whatever the answer it surely would be very interesting.

On the other hand, why do humans have an urge towards the spiritual?

Every civilization, group of humans, advanced or backwards have some form of spiritual belief, with a central God or the notion of Gods. Why is this the case? Why are we drawn to these beliefs, beliefs that may be different but all revolve around the notion of God or Gods?

If matter is God, and matter is in all of us and everything as Science has proven, then God or matter, is truly our spiritual being that we yern for so much and given that we are made up of God or matter, this perfectly explain the human urge to please some form of super natural being that we all sort of know exist, but given the hardship involved in proving this, we often attempt to distance ourselves from such notion of a God existing.

And guess what, as we use Science to "distance" ourselves from the notion of a God existing, Science is now giving us hints of the exact same description religion gave us when describing God, except that in Science we give it a different name.

What an interesting finding.

I think this is one of those questions that I know the answer deep down inside, but given the fear or inability to fully prove it, I would refrain from fully answering my very own questions, but I think what I have "discovered" here merits some extra attention from religions and scientific leaders of all kinds.

Is matter God? Is God matter?

Hmm...

 

[Tordok]

long post

Folks,
I think religion topics as such are prohibited by the board owner. The OP is really about the popular beliefs among people in the DR. I admittedly allowed myself to wander off by answering on an off-topic tangent. Didn't really mean to turn this debate from sociological to philosophical. But its there now, so let me try again to clarify my opinions. No one has to agree and I am not selling ideas, just stating them. OK?

As far as we can tell, no culture on the history of the earth, has been exempt from myths and rituals. In every continent you will find very old traditions which are culture-bound, thus highly accepted, but may appear as abnormal to people from other cultures. Silly rituals, scary rituals, criminal rituals. They are all rituals. Some less harmful than others.

People educated under the tenets of the Western tradition have slowly been shedding off most of the more obvious elements of magical explanations from our religions. Its like when we were kids, we may have thought Santa Claus was like very cool and indeed from the freaking North Pole and all that. More precise and efficient that FedEx or UPS. But little elfs helped him, so that's why. Right? Well the same culture taught you later that, well, that whole deal was just a make-you-feel-good kind of "white lie". Just like adults adapt to that concept once "reality" and maturity set-in, the well-fed and well instructed modernizing humans anywhere will likewise eventually shed off the rituo-mystical from their cultural beliefs systems. My opinion. I don't KNOW this. OK?

I DO know that most spriritual people are not religious automatons with robotic, knee-jerk answers that paraphrase ancient texts. But many do, and that's quite a concern if we wish this species to endure and prosper.

Neither religion nor science are truly "objective" or absolute. We can't know that. We are humbled by the absence of good answers by either discipline.
We do know that there are things that will always be open to interpretation and we just must accept how others choose to view any issue, whether about the existence of God or any other culture-bound tenets. But (and with me, there is always a but) there are, IMO, universal standards of moral rectitude that derive from our biology and extend into every culture. This creates a clear common context that may apply to everyone.

The specific concepts that may be culturally acceptable as either scientific or faith-based are BTW always changing/evolving, just like all the other creatures on Earth do, just like the planet's climate does, just like the cosmos itself, just like our childhood beliefs in fairies turn into some other, less fantastic legends.

The Aztecs, for example, were quite an accomplished people in agriculture, hydraulics, and other technologies that they mastered, but their religion was still using human sacrifices only 500 years ago. It made all the sense in the world to them and they did not see it as sinful, quite on the contrary they thought they were being observant of God's will. We sort of agree by now, universally, that such practices, religious or otherwise are not acceptable in any culture. That's a great religion only if you weren't elegible for being the sacrificial lamb.

The very Christian, Bible-toting Nazis, killed people by the millions in gas chambers and other concentration camp horrors. The very holy church of the Vatican has been sinfully involved in horrible violations of human rights. When people think that they really know something that cannot be cognitively validated, watch out. The next logical step is that they will try to make you bend to their way of seeing things. It when the very ignorant combine to follow the very arrogant that individuals and societies form a strong sense of moral infallibility which in turn allows the perfect environment for grooming suicidal bombers, ecclessiastical child abusers, genocidal theocracies, holy inquisitions and intifadas, Puritanical witch hunters, fanatical book-burners, etc. Verbatim interpretations of ANY scriptures make me highly suspicious of people affected by intellectual laziness or deprivation, maybe even lack of moral self-sufficiency and extreme comformity.

:cross-eye

 

[Tordok]

short post

So, what I originally wanted to say, and perhaps in not such a provocative manner, was:
1- adhesion to scientific principles and spiritual experience are not incompatible.
2- all ideas about divinity are framed by culture.
3- I am big supporter of religious freedom, but my personal preference is not to follow any organized cult.
3- Dominican culture displays odd folkore/beliefs, which I may not participate in but have no right to question.
- Tordok
:beard: :cross-eye :glasses: :nervous: :tired:

 

[deelt]

Tordok

On your points:

1- adhesion to scientific principles and spiritual experience are not incompatible.

Ans: Agreed. This is my earlier point to you. Even Albert Einstein was a firm believer.

2- all ideas about divinity are framed by culture.

Ans: Overwhelmingly so. However, there is also room for rejection, conversion, incorporations and general revolt. For example, slavery was biblically justified but not biblically practiced. In this sense you confuse the use of the church/organized religion as a political tool with actual Christian beliefs.

3- I am big supporter of religious freedom, but my personal preference is not to follow any organized cult.

Ans: I respect that.

4- Dominican culture displays odd folkore/beliefs, which I may not participate in but have no right to question.

Ans: I think an increase in levels of education can help fix most of those oddities.

 

[Tordok]

Deelt,
I knew we would understand each other! Thank you for reaching out, it shows that we can approach things differently, and be "solidarios" at the same time.
Vive la difference!!

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light
--Plato

- Tordok
:bandit:

Tordok

On your points:

1- adhesion to scientific principles and spiritual experience are not incompatible.

Ans: Agreed. This is my earlier point to you. Even Albert Einstein was a firm believer.

2- all ideas about divinity are framed by culture.

Ans: Overwhelmingly so. However, there is also room for rejection, conversion, incorporations and general revolt. For example, slavery was biblically justified but not biblically practiced. In this sense you confuse the use of the church/organized religion as a political tool with actual Christian beliefs.

3- I am big supporter of religious freedom, but my personal preference is not to follow any organized cult.

Ans: I respect that.

4- Dominican culture displays odd folkore/beliefs, which I may not participate in but have no right to question.

Ans: I think an increase in levels of education can help fix most of those oddities.

 

[deelt]

Viva indeed. I am part of a little cooking group of girlfriends (one is a jew, one is a secular muslim, other a practicing muslim, other is Hindi/Trini Catholic and I). You can just imagine the conversations in time of Rosh HaShanah/Yom Kippur, Ramadan, Diwali, and Halloween....lol.

At the end of the day there is not much difference. Just do good in this world or at least the best you can.

Deelt,
I knew we would understand each other! Thank you for reaching out, it shows that we can approach things differently, and be "solidarios" at the same time.
Vive la difference!!

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light
--Plato

- Tordok
:bandit:

 

[Cibae?a61]

i'va heard of most of these voodoo stuff....being dominican there's no way that u coulldnt have heard of it....but what i believe is that u can be the most devoted catholic...christian....baptist...what ever...but u know that if someone comes up to u with a story about somekind of voodoo or witchcraft that u've never heard before or dat u dont understand ur gonna have dat doubt..as in "wat if that has ever happen to that person, what if it happens to me.....is it reall????" u know all those questions that mostly stay in the back of ur head......

my main point is that no matter what u believe in noone is able to change ur belief or ur faith but their always going to be able to put that thought or doubt in ur mind.....no matter what!
I think that having faith or belive in somethin is sticking to that belief when someone tries to "test" it......(relating to that whole voodoo thing)
Im not saying that voodoo is fake or real....idk..but sometimes when someone puts a thought in ur mind u keep thinkin bout it n then when somethin happens to you ur like el diablo what she said was real.....but ofcourse if u keep thinkin bout somethin that much..ur pushing urself to make it happen...people just dont realize it......

 

[LatinoRican]

Dominican Beliefs or what?

Whoa! Has this thread gone off topic or what?! For those of you interested in some good reading ( in Spanish ) about Dominican myths, beliefs, and leyends, the book to buy is "Mitos, Creencias y Leyendas Dominicanas" by doctor Guaroa Ubiñas Renville. Ediciones Librería La Trinitaria, Santo Domingo, Rep. Dom. 2001. After reading it, you will know what are bakás, ciguapas, galipotes, and other spirits which may lurk in the Dominican night! Hey, my 80 year old Dominican mother-in-law says it's all true, so who am I to say otherwise?