Dominican Republic To Build A Border Fence

windeguy

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I am surprised only that it is not starting today between the DR and the failed state of Haiti.
 
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bob saunders

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A good working visa program , combined with strong enforcement against illegal workers and companies that hire them plus a good border wall will improve the whole country. Dominicans will do construction work, and they do.
 
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windeguy

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There are severe penalties in the DR for employing illegal aliens.

The new government has promised to enforce the laws.

I expect a worker visa program around the same time a 6 month snowbird visa is created.
 
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Yourmaninvegas

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A good working visa program , combined with strong enforcement against illegal workers and companies that hire them plus a good border wall will improve the whole country. Dominicans will do construction work, and they do.
Although I agree with part of your statement...(in my opinion, gotta get that in there to help everyone understand this is discussion) it really ignores the reality of the illegal immigration on the ground in 🇩🇴 .

IMO, Haitians are not taking construction jobs from Dominicans.
I will not express my opinion of most Dominican males here for fear of offending some who will disagree with me.
I will just say I have not seen many hard working Dominican males out in the sun during the period that I have lived here.

Then we have the service sector.
I have seen entire restaurant staffs turn over where not a Dominican work in a service position dealing with the customers.
I have spoke to these new workers and they have told me that the Dominican owners prefer hiring not Dominican workers.
This proves nothing.
The information is based on anecdotal evidence.
But just throwing it out there.
 
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NALs

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Who is going to pay for the wall?
The same people that paid (and are paying) for the Metro; the recently built highways, tunnels, bridges; etc.

There was a news article many years ago, I think it was in Listin Diario, that the basic gist was that the budget for security on the Metro greatly surpassed the budget for border security.
 
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NALs

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A good working visa program , combined with strong enforcement against illegal workers and companies that hire them plus a good border wall will improve the whole country. Dominicans will do construction work, and they do.
Dominicans have always been the overwhelmimg majority of construction workers. It was in the late 90's to early 00's that Haitian workers share in construction began to be considerable, today making most of the construction workers. In the mean time, something that never existed before is that it has become quite common on many islands in the Caribbean to see Dominican construction workers. Hmm, where were they before?

The sindicate for Dominican construction workers has been denouncing for many years the abandoment of Dominican construction workers in favor of Haitian ones. Aside from maintaining wage levels near stagnant, the equivalent if a wage cut as time goes on, many Haitian workers are (or were) illegsl immigrants and that mesnt greater savings for Dominican companies as they don't have to pay things such as paid vacations, social security, on the job health insurance, etc. Usually, the prestaciones are equivalent and in many cases surpasses the wages and salaries a company has to pay. In essence, the influx of Haitian construction workers is a way to increase the amount of money going into the pockets of the company, owners and top managers. That's one of the reason why construction of torres had a profitability level that went as high as 60% (think that percentage of the money that costs you to purchase an apartment in a torre went as pure profits). Torres are known as gold mines among certain circles. For example, a torre built anywhere in the USA doesn't produces not even half the profits that one does in Santo Domingo and certainly not as quickly either.
 
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carlos

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Make your points without injecting US Politics....
 

CristoRey

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Who is going to pay for the wall?
If I felt like wasting a lot of money on it, I would. Since everything this country's government does they do half assed, I don't expect it to be done properly.
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Dominicans have always been the overwhelmimg majority of construction workers. It was in the late 90's to early 00's that Haitian worker share in construction begsn to be considerable, today making most of the construction workers. In the mean time, something that never existed before is that it has become quite common on many islands in the Caribbean to have Dominican construction workers. Hmm, I wonder where were they before?

The sindicate for Dominican construction workers has been denouncing for many years the abandoment of Dominican construction workers in favor of Haitian ones. Aside from maintaining wage levels near stagnant, the equivalent if a wage cut as time goes on, many Haitian workers are (or were) illegsl immigrants and that mesnt greater savings for Dominican companies as they don't have to pay things such as paid vacations, social security, on the job health insurance, etc. Usually, the prestaciones are equivalent and in many cases surpasses the wages and salaries a company has to pay. In essence, the influx of Haitian construction workers is a way to increase the amount of money going into the pockets of the company, owners and top managers. That's one of the reason why construction of torres had a profitability level that went as high as 60% (think that percentage of the money that costs you to purchase an apartment in a torre went as pure profits). Torres are known as gold mines among certain circles. For example, a torre built anywhere in the USA doesn't produces not even half the profits that one does in Santo Domingo and certainly not as quickly either.
And now all understand my point being made about lip service being paid to illegal immigration.
Just follow the money🤑.
 

Yourmaninvegas

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If I felt like wasting a lot of money on it, I would. Since everything this country's government does they do half assed, I don't expect it to be done properly.
All that needs to be done is to consult with Israel.
I hear they are pretty good at building border walls.
That way you would not be wasting your money.
 
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NALs

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And now all understand my point being made about lip service being paid to illegal immigration.
Just follow the money🤑.
The current president doesn't appear to be as permissive towards illegal immigration. The Dominican government is currently planning to build hospitals in Haiti with the purpose of putting an end to pregnant Haitian women crossing the border to give birth in Dominican hospitals. Currently the border security is being intensified with the construction of a border wall meant to end the illegal crossings, modernizing the entry points, and further vigilance. Stronger monetary penalty of private employers of illegal Haitians is actually being applied. Even in the application of anti-Covid vaccines, illegal immigrants are excluded and the government has reiterated that it will vaccinate Dominicans only. The president himself said to the press that the international community if it really wants should vaccinate the illegals.There are a few other things that basically is showing one thing, the PLD, which has governed the country since 1996 minus de 2000-2004 and is considered responsible for the illegal Haitian problem for not attending the border correctly, not ratifying an immigration bill that simply needed the signature of the president and instead it was put away by the executive for years, is no longer in power.

Things have definitely changed.
 
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NALs

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All that needs to be done is to consult with Israel.
I hear they are pretty good at building border walls.
That way you would not be wasting your money.
The Israeli government is currently involved in the planning and construction of the border wall, precisely due to the success of the wall in Israel. Decades ago an offer was made by Israel towards the Dominican government concerning fortifying the border, in part as an act of gratitude for saving the lives of many Jews in the 1940's. Israeli officials themselves said that illegal immigrants from Haiti shouldn't be roaming in the DR. The Dominican government at the time ignored Israel's proposition and the PLD continued the ignoring during the two decades of its rule. Now things are different, but the PLD is no longer in power. The wall in Israel is the world's most successful wall in substantially reducing illegal crossings. One of the evidence of this is how drastic has been the decrease of bombings and other terrorrism activities in Israel. I remember every week Israel was in the news because of some new bombing, now they are hardly in the news for that. What Israel is doing in Palestine is also condemnible and could be considered terrorrism too, but the wall itself has done its purpose quite well.

Right now the DR has a government controlled by the Dominican oligarchy and hasn't been the case since the mid-90's. I think very few DR1ers were around the DR the last time the country was under the control of the oligarchy. This can be seen even in the president himself. Leonel and Danilo both are of humble origins. The former from Villa Juana and Danilo from a campo of San Juan de la Maguana. The former grew up in a home that was evidently communist with photos of Fidel Castro and such as part of the decorations. The latter was a communist in his younger years, even a part of a communist organization and did work in favor of increasing communism in the DR. While moderated by the time he became president, it was still evident that there was an air during his rule that the government can do things that are more efficient in the private sector. By contrast, Abinader was born into a family that was already wealthy. While a descendant of Lebanese immigrants from his father side, via his mother he is a descendant of the Corona family. They have been in Santiago since the 1600's (before the French arrived to the island to boot), his branch above the typical Dominican in terms of economic might and power. The entire government of Abinader is headed by people born into wealth, unlike the governments of the PLD which was headed mostly by people from humble origin and many became wealthy once the PLD was in power.
 
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Yourmaninvegas

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Right now the DR has a government controlled by the Dominican oligarchy and hasn't been the case since the mid-90's. I think very few DR1ers were around the DR the last time the country was under the control of the oligarchy.
So is the current government a Oligarchy❓
Abinader was born into a family that was already wealthy. While adescendant of Lebanese immigrants from his father side, via his mother he is a descendsnt of the Corona family. They have been in Santiago since the 1600's (before the French arrived on the island to boot), his branch above the typical Dominican in terms of economic might and power. The entire government of Abinader is headed by people born into wealth, unlike the governments of the PLD which was headed mostly by people from humble origin and many became wealthy once the PLD was in power.
Or a Plutocracy ❓
 

bob saunders

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The current president doesn't appear to be as permissive towards illegal immigration. The Dominican government is currently planning to build hospitals in Haiti with the purpose if putting an end to pregnant Haitian women crossing the border to give birth in Dominican hospitals. Currently the border security is being intensified with the construction of a border wall meant to end the illegal crossings, modernizing the entry points, and further vigilance. Stronger monetary penalty of private employers of illegal Haitians is actually being applied. Even in the application ofvanti-Covid vaccines, illegal immigrants are excluded and the government has reiterated that it will vaccinate Domincans only. The president himself said to the press that the international community if it really wants should vaccinate the illegals.There are a few other things that basically is showing ine thing, the PLD which has governed the country since 1996 minus de 2000-2004 and is considered responsible for the illegal Haitian problem for not attending the border correctly, not ratifying an immigration bill that simply needed the signature of the president and instead it was put away by the executive for years.

Things have definitely changed.
There was little control of Haitian entry during Hipolito's reign.
 

mountainannie

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elizabetheames.blogspot.com
SO Very informative! Thanks! I have a couple of observations and questions -- Is there anyone now on this board posting from LT? When I left the DR in 2016, I had been up to LT and helped organize about 300 young Haitian construction workers who were essentially without work there (and BOUND for trouble being w/out papers, families, connections in the Capitol) - I did put them in touch with the UNHCR NGO in StoDom but they were only working off a small grant which was limited to "Madame Sarahs" - as in repatriation of women to be street merchants. Most of the young men there had been trained by Dominicans and in agreement that they would do much better back in Haiti - would be happier, could make a better living - IF - for instance - they could travel back and had enough $$ to purchase the tools of their trade? - carpentry? electric? tilers? -- I have no idea what is going on now in LT -

When the Bahia Principe (? I may have the name wrong?) was being built outside of LT, it was done exclusively with Haitian laborers - who were housed on site & w/Dominicans picketing out front - since the Dominicans were NOT going to work for less than what was about then US$30 a day. So I wonder if the Dominican owned hotels/construction firms are going to forgo Haitian workers?

Has there been movement forward on the visas/cedulas for the agricultural workers? I was there for the project under Danilo which ended - well - not very well for most Haitians since it was a long and expensive process for them to get a two year permit to get in line for perhaps a cedilla. But there were some big agricultural companies that had been very good about getting proper papers for their workers.

Is CESFRONT still in charge of the border? Are there still police patrols all the way down the road from Dajabon to Santiago?

I know the three legal crossing points and their markets pretty well. I can't imagine that a wall of any kind would/could prevent Haitian immigration into the DR any more than one on the US/Mexican border would.

The building of hospitals plan is an old offer - certainly before I left. And a Very Good One!

As for energy? The very BEST thing would to somehow get the propane tanks in Haiti to be compatible with the ones in the DR!! And Get Propane stoves over to Haiti - the way Balaguer did for the DR so that the Haitians don't have to keep cutting down the trees on the DR side for charcoal.
 

Naked_Snake

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There was little control of Haitian entry during Hipolito's reign.
But there were far more operatives from the DGM than in all the years of the PLD combined (Leone's first mandate included). I'd know since I practically was on the street on a daily basis during the 2000-2004 admin. But what I think made the difference during the Hipo years is that there wasn't as much economic dynamism as there was during the PLD admins, hence very little chances for the sectors employing Haitian labor to have caused as much trouble.
 
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