Tom F. said:I agree 100% and was writing that in sarcisim. I teach that no country in the world is a democracy, but we would like to see democratic ideals developed as much as possible. When I look at Latin America, Venezuela and Brazil unfortunately must watch out with the Republicans in office in the US. The DR will kiss up enough to keep their nose above water and may someday have to be bailed out like other have had to be. I am with the Profesor on earlier posts (other threads) that the IMF and World Bank are the main culprits. However you define the rise in globalism, it will maintain the status quo where the working class earning capacity will decline. Governments will be even less responsive to the needs of the majority and cater to those at the top. Because of the level of corruption in the DR, those 20 families Roberto Cassa teaches about, will still determine how wealth is distributed in the Dominican economy, not an elected populist government. I will continue to ponder this for years to come. I appreciate what everyone has put into this thread. It is one of the few really educational threads for me.
Nal0whs said:Now, my dominican political view. I think Leonel is going to win the next elections and I am pro-Leonel 100%. I like his way of thinking, very industrial oriented and forward looking. Oh sure, there are going to be some folks that will be within his party and are going to be much more corrupt than the devil himself, but that is when you know that we got a real democracy. Only in democracies do MULTIPLE people have a chance of being corrupt in government rather than ONE person like in Totalitarian or Dictatorial regimes.
I don't agree 100% with one of the posters when he/she posted dominican-americans are becoming the professional minds that the DR did not allow them to be. Though I get your point, I don't agree with the wordings. It is justifiable to say that many kids in the DR have the opportunity to get a free education all the way through college. Of course, not all of the kids due to economic constraints, but many. Unfortunately, way too many drop out before they even finish high school. So was it the DR that did not allow them to be the professionals of the future or was it something else? Maybe the thought of getting in a yola or buying a visa and going to "rich" New York sounds more promising that studying studying and more studying. Or maybe, hoping to be spotted by baseball scouts is more appealing. Though I clearly understand your statement and what you ment, I don't think the DR prevents anyone from acheiving success. Sure, there are economic problems that could cause inequalities in distribution of free education across the country, but those that are lucky enough to get free education are not making the most of it. That is where it all lies.
I do think that Dominican-Americans are going to be a big influence in Dominican politics.The only problem that I see with this phenomenon is that way too many Dominican-Americans will influence the DR with a strong American way of doing things. Such push could eventually lead the DR to give up being a free independent nation and become a state of the U.S. Such action would be an insult to all the men and women that shed blood so that dominicans could have somewhere in the planet to always call home. The dominican elites would certainly hate anything of that nature because it will take away much of their powers. It's something akin to asking the U.S. to withdraw all of their military bases that are in non-American owned lands. It would be detrimental to the power of the U.S. But I think that Dominican-Americans should try to influence the country in many ways. Maybe, take away the "welfare mentality" of the everyday people just waiting for the government to do something for them and instead give people the motivation to actually go out there and try to make it, expecting nothing from nobody but themselves. For dominicans to stop dreaming about New York or Puerto Rico and begin acting on their lives in the country that was kind enough to allow them to live freely.
Nal0whs said:deelt, I can see your point in the first paragraph of your reply (On Leonel, etc.)
I totally agree with you on the second one (Dominican-Americans,etc.). But it can't be denied that a Dominican will have a much better chance with an education that without it. Nepotism will always prevail in most cases, but when ever that slight chance appears, when the big guys want qualified folks in a certain position, it's better to be prepared for it. But other than that, you hit the nail.
And on your third paragraph, I agree 100%. Except maybe the love of blackness. Don't get me wrong, I know what you are trying to say and I agree with you, but I think that Dominicans already love their blackness. The problem is that they called Indio. Maybe a change in name, but the love is there. In fact, it should not even matter what race dominican give preference to as long that they consider themselves Dominican first, than everything else second!
This is for the general people out there. This thread has to be one of the most professional ones on this web site. I congratulate whom ever started this one. I've been trying to have a professional discussion on many subjects on this web site and almost always it has be "sabotaged" by bad mouth folks that only want to make other people feel either sad or angry and before you knew, bam, it was closed. Congratulation in deed!!
joel pacheco said:i read in a tourist guide book from england that DNA tests proved that 50% of puerto ricans have tanio DNA and 15% of dominicans have tanio DNA in their system.
so the domincan population is not just african and spanish/european mixes.
Nal0whs said:that it's hard to categorize Dominicans as this or that. The people that you physically see walking up and down dominican streets, may not be who you think they are. It's like that saying "Never judge a book by it's cover" well, never judge a dominican by it's appearance. From the whitest to the darkest and everything in between, you'll find more genetic mixture than probably anywhere else in the world. Think about it.
It's a fact that Spaniards, Italians, Germans, French, and some British migrated to the island at some point of it's lengthy history. Africans from Congo, Nigeria, Angola, Ivory Coast and maybe even benin were imported into Santo Domingo. The Africans were imported for export. Santo Domingo was a transhipment point for the human cargo which was bought in Africa and resold in Santo Domingo mostly to the Americans, but also to the French on the other side of the island. Beyond that, there have also been migrants in significant numbers from Syria and Lebanon. Chinese made their way here. Japanese came under Trujillo. Also serphardic Jews came in the 1700s and then more jews in the 1940s.
There were many native american (Taino) indian settlements that were probably not discovered by the Spaniards and with time began to mingle with one another. I once read in a book (can't remember the title) that there was a large Taino village in between La Isabela and modern day Luperon that was not discovered by the Spaniards up until 200 years after they had landed on the island. Imagine how many probably existed up in the rugged mountainous areas that were avoided by the Europeans because they were much more busy with their tropical agriculture economics in the lowlands. With time, all of these people mixed in and before you know it, modern dominicans came to existance with their beautiful skin color, varied facial features, and everything else that makes Dominicans among the best people in the world.
Even today, you might still see some families that have strong physical appearances to the original migrants before mixing. In Las Salinas, there is a family that I saw of white dominicans with natural blonde hair. They are poor, but if you were to see them with nice clothes you might confuse them with tourists! In the San Francisco de Macoris area there is a village that people claim that is inhabited by chinese. However, look at these suppose "chinese" and compare and they will seem more native american than chinese. In the Samana peninsula there are still many blacks that speak English as their first Language, and these are dominicans too! Some jews are still lurking around in the Sosua area. Some people of Azua and Bani are obviously decendants of the Canary Islanders that settled there. Constanza still has it's Japanese folks walking around. In the Cibao you still hear last names that are very Spanish in origin such as Olivares, Jimenez, Colon, Lantigua, etc. Names that evoke a sense of Spanish power (at least in my mind it does).
You see, Dominicans are a mix of everything. Many dominicans have probably traces of every race that exist on the planet, who knows. But the things that unite all of these people is their belief in one sovereign nation and it's culture. This nation is the Dominican Republic and this culture is the Dominicanidad.