Dominican Students at Harvard hoist Reformista Flag and Invoke powers of Balaguer

wventura

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joel pacheco said:
i read in a tourist guide book from england that DNA tests proved that 50% of puerto ricans have tanio DNA and 15% of dominicans have tanio DNA in their system.

so the domincan population is not just african and spanish/european mixes.


yeah but MITOCHONDRIAL DNA; the dna that doesnt change from generation to generation. A person could have 1 taino ancestor and their Mtc dna would come up taino.

These mtc dna tests have been done in alot of carribean countries, and arawak/taino ancestry is found everywhere. For example in haiti 3 out of 10 people have it.

It makes sense that people would have it, because arawaks/tainos were the earliest ancestors, but that does not mean that it is at all significant.

Taino racial admixture among dominicans is insignificant and negligable.
 

Amory Blaine

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I'm back from Spring Break. I enjoyed reading all your funny comments and essays. Ha! I also liked the fact that I instigated all this stuff...
 

Narcosis

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ok Amory let's cut the BS and get back to work

I spoke to a dear old friend of mine whom upon the PRD winning the elections, packed his bags and left for Miami.

We went over various details of what is going on politically here on the island, when we both realized the sheer number of people we both know that have left the country since the PRD has taken power.

After I hung-up, I reflected upon this and called a few more friends and family to ask the same, "how many people do you know that have left in the past 4 years".

The number is very worrysome as I have recently learned 2 of my dearest friends are contemplating leaving as well. One an established dentist and the other the head of a local agency of a large US corporation.

The last exodus of Dominicans was back in the late 80's early 90's, also was a by-product of 8 years of PRD rule.

We needed Balaguer to take control of the economy and later establish the reforms for the growth experienced in the 90's and later with Balaguer's blessing through his endorsement, a 4 year term for the PLD under Leonel Fernandez, which resulted in a more than acceptable term.

We need to make sure this political hekaton, PRD, never returns to power again. We must make everyone aware that the PRD represents poverty, decay and ruins. We as a nation can't accept a future with this party in it.

How many more productive, educated, hard-working people must leave by first-class ticket or by yola?
 

Lambada

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Well put, Narcosis.

My Dominican neighbours, in a well-heeled part of Puerto Plata, are all planning to leave if the PPH gets re"elected". These are business owners of both means & intelligence - it would be a sad loss to the country.
 

NALs

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I just wonder...

what Hippo feels right before he goes to sleep. Under his rule, the country that made it possible for him to be alive has gone down the tubes. Not only are the "negritos" leaving but also the "blanquitos" and the "ricos". Hmm, I just wonder what will Hippo think and feel while he sits on that balcony in his Miami penthouse. Destroy a country for self pleasure? self satisfaction? I don't think so. This guy will probably live a miserable life. Even if he did mean to do what he did to the country, his conscious will always keep reminding him of what he did, it's something he won't be able to escape from. The country might recover like it has done millions of times, but Mr. Baldness conscious will not. I hope I see him on his jeepeta one day, I'll give him a mouth full! :angry:
 

Forbeca

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Hippo has no conscious

Nal0whs said:
what Hippo feels right before he goes to sleep. Under his rule, the country that made it possible for him to be alive has gone down the tubes. Not only are the "negritos" leaving but also the "blanquitos" and the "ricos". Hmm, I just wonder what will Hippo think and feel while he sits on that balcony in his Miami penthouse. Destroy a country for self pleasure? self satisfaction? I don't think so. This guy will probably live a miserable life. Even if he did mean to do what he did to the country, his conscious will always keep reminding him of what he did, it's something he won't be able to escape from. The country might recover like it has done millions of times, but Mr. Baldness conscious will not. I hope I see him on his jeepeta one day, I'll give him a mouth full! :angry:


A man of integrity w/ not allowed his country to be in the predicament that it's in.

I wouldn't worry about his peace of mind if I were you. He will get what's coming to him and I will take tremendous pleasure from it.
 
Do you think he actually feels he is doing anything wrong. Do you believe he has that since of belief within him. No matter how much anger is shown towards him, he most likely surrounds himself by people who beleive he is wonderful. Why else would he run again. He does not see what others outside his circle see. What way can you make someone like that see this?
 

Narcosis

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Real change now.

Who the **** cares what Hippo feels/thinks? This thread is about why we need to rid ourselves of the PRD and bring real change to this country.

Yes I am overly opinionated on the subject, I remember every minute of the last 8 year term the PRD made us endure, and it is hard to believe this country voted for that same party in 2000.

I jumped on this thread after reading the opening lines from Amory because I believe that is the only way out of the current trend on all fronts in this country, what Balaguer once called the "hatianization" of the DR.

Now before the usual quazi-left idiots start their usual black-white issue attacks, try to learn something and keep your mind open before you try comparing this to the US or whatever country you want to measure our internal issues to, and keep your political correctness back in the states or Europe where it belongs.

I have read thread after thread about complaints about how things are done here as well as how bad everything is, yes the fact is that it IS our fault, no one else is to blame but Dominicans.

Dominicans that rally behind a Haitian. A man that had a clear vision for this country and knew what he had to do to get it done, and a party of socially inept retards, Haitians, or in Hippo's, Hatuey's and Milagros case political oportunists.

We need to embrace the core values that this country was founded on. It disgusts me to see post after post of a negative and distorted image people have of Dominicans. Hell some Dominicans don't have a clue because all they know is the present, they have no resourses to learn what this country was about, they don't have the luxury of knowing their parents many times much less their grandparents.

Current values are the street smarts you need to pick-up to survive in this decaying society. Do we really want these same people to govern the country and really set in stone this model of society?

Hell no I say. Populists my ***, if we are to ever correct our course in history, we need to get our head out of the gutter and back into the progressive, forward-thinking, productive hands of the elite. Yeah thats right the elite, not because they drive a Mercedes but because they had the means for a good education, stable family and values, these are the elite we need. People that actually care how they will be judged in the future.
 

Criss Colon

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Who said;"People Get The Government They Deserve!"?

Since I am a big fan of Chaos,I hope that "Hipolito" does get re-elected! I do very well during hard times!This place would lose half it's charm if there wasn't a new crisis everyday! Since I am prepared for all disasters,it lets me say,"I told You So!",when no one has cooking gas,car gas,diesel fuel,drinking water,food,or the other "essencials"like US $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!While the dominicans spend their money on beer,and their time on dominos,I have 15 five galon water bottles,3 large,and 1 small tank of "Propano",100 lbs. of rice,and lots of dried beans,canned ham :hurt: :eek:gre: :smoke: and tuna,a water well,a "Planta",and the means to protect them! So "Vota Blanca"
Cris Colon
 

Chris

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Narcosis said:
... We need to embrace the core values that this country was founded on. It disgusts me to see post after post of a negative and distorted image people have of Dominicans. Hell some Dominicans don't have a clue because all they know is the present, they have no resourses to learn what this country was about, they don't have the luxury of knowing their parents many times much less their grandparents.
.......
Hell no I say. Populists my ***, if we are to ever correct our course in history, we need to get our head out of the gutter and back into the progressive, forward-thinking, productive hands of the elite. Yeah thats right the elite, not because they drive a Mercedes but because they had the means for a good education, stable family and values, these are the elite we need. People that actually care how they will be judged in the future.

Two paragraphs quoted from your post and two questions....

What would you say those core values are? and

What about the criticism toward the elite in terms of not being interested in the ordinary Dominican person and simply out for getting as much as they can for themselves?
 
If there is no checks and balances of that executive branch of government it wont matter a damn what president is in office. President after president their is a complaint. Why, because he does whatever the hell he wants. If you had each level of government checked, be it executive or judicial or whatever then across the board maybe things would be different. Its not a compalaint or a compliment. Its a reality. The reality is even if the PRD goes, change would be limted because the foundation of government is not stable. Simple as that. If you ask me, ammend the Constitution or at least INFORCE IT!!
 

Narcosis

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Core values in general are the same shared by any Western nation.

1. Family in a traditional sense as the center of society.

2. Western religions (we have the right to free worship although we are oficially a Roman Catholic nation) and the values most western faiths teach as our foundation for what is morally correct.

3. Democracy as a means of governing.

Your view of the elite may be a bit distorted.

The elite does not only mean you drive a Mercedes and have a large house, on the contrary, the true elite know who we are and not all of them have wealth in terms of money but in terms of knowledge, family tradition, good name in society, have respect among the community for who they are and not what they have.
 
Narcosis said:
Your view of the elite may be a bit distorted.

The elite does not only mean you drive a Mercedes and have a large house, on the contrary, the true elite know who we are and not all of them have wealth in terms of money but in terms of knowledge, family tradition, good name in society, have respect among the community for who they are and not what they have.

Purely off base. Elite is purely economic. You are definately remanticizing the term. A person who has all the categories you list minus the money would be humble enough not to call themselves elite.


But your other points are on point but I would not politicize values.
 

Narcosis

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Sancocho:

That is the exact response expected from someone who will have a tough time ever belonging in that group. No offense maybe if you become a true self-made man in the USA and gain that respect for yourself you will be respected.

It maybe painful for some of you to swallow, but in a way it is a birth-right, an inheireted status because of the life your family has chosen to follow before you. If you continue in their foot-steps you will be accepted as well or if not become a black-sheep among the elite with some respect but not at the same caliber.

On the other hand someone who just makes a-lot of money and does not have this birth-right will not be automatically accepted in this circle they need to earn their way in, through the way they handle themselves.

This may be something some people find stupid, but it is the way it is. This is not the theme of this thread so let us please leave the complexes at the door.
 

Forbeca

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It maybe painful for some of you to swallow, but in a way it is a birth-right, an inheireted status because of the life your family has chosen to follow before you. If you continue in their foot-steps you will be accepted as well or if not become a black-sheep among the elite with some respect but not at the same caliber.

On the other hand someone who just makes a-lot of money and does not have this birth-right will not be automatically accepted in this circle they need to earn their way in, through the way they handle themselves.





I have to agree with that 100%. You're on the money. Elite and rich do not always go hand in hand. Only in the DR!

Edited to Add: These elite families are of spanish descendants.

How many times haven't we explained this?

Didn't mean to go off topic.

Carry on.
 
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NALs

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The elites are made up of two, well three types of people.

1. Old Riches, these are traditional white dominican families from the Cibao (mostly Santiago) that have their interest in agriculture and have been ruling this nation from it's inception! These people tend to value more their image and family values above their personal possesion, however, one must be aware that if you don't have the dough, you are not an elite. But, after the dough, it's not so much how big the account is, but how much respect people in the streets have for you and your family. This also applies to many other old riches across Latin America.

2. New Riches, these are non-traditional dominicans of all backgrounds that have managed to get their business into a booming gear. Many are baseball players, business owners, etc. People that have for the most part lived elsewhere, usually the U.S. As such, they come back with an American mentality of what an elite is about. So, the new riches drive the most expensive cars, live in the biggest houses, make the wildest and most elaborate parties, fly in super luxurious jets, etc. Many are not welcomed into the old riches circle for multiple reasons, the top one being image, lifestyle comes second, and how and when the riches were aquired comes in a distant third. Of course, these American influence folks don't see it that way and they keep spending like pigs and trying to get into the Santo Domingo Country Club but are rejected. Despite the Beantly.

3. These are what I call the Bad Riches or the Inferior Riches. These are dominicans that have made their fortunes through shady propositions. Hippo is the newest member of this club, along with the other cronies taking up office space in the National Palace. San Francisco de Macoris is notorious for it's super rich drug dealers who live in the lap of luxury that only exist in our dreams for many around the world. One time I manage to fly over San Francisco with my Friend in his jet and these houses look more like Palaces and they seemed impressive from the sky.

I must say that the rich should not ever have to worry about the problems of the poor or middle class. The ones that should worry about those problems are the peoples that make up those sections of society. The rich should only worry about problems that would affect them. This country would be better off if everybody stops complaining and nagging and begin to focus on their specialized fields. The poor, if they are really unhappy, then do something to get things done! The middle class, if they are unhappy, then do something to get things done! and the same goes for the rich. That way, society would function much more efficiently. The rich will maintain their corporate empires which gives much needed professional positions for the middle classes and unskilled labor for the poor classes. And people should simply forget about the Government!! The only time the Dominican Government was really pro-dominican was under the Trujillo Era and look at the tremendous side effects that had!! If everybody would simply take care of themselves, society will do the same because each and every single human that inhabits the eastern 2/3 of Hispaniola together make up that society. I hope so one sees what I am trying to say here!!
 

Narcosis

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Sancocho:

You are correct on that without a stable foundation it won't matter who is president.

This brings us to another juncture in this debate. The reason I am so keen on destroying the PRD is that we really need to focus our democracy on 2 parties.

The 3 party structure is too open for corruption in the sense that it has become a national sport to buy and sell votes in the senate from opposing parties that have no political chance of winning. We see this happen often in the congress and it tends to distort the role of the congress.

With only 2 strong parties in contention, the debates will be more focused on issues rather than how many votes I need to buy off of the weakest of the 3 parties.

Strong institutions are what is needed here, but again our institutions are littered with members of the PRD, people that have little or no education and are solely filling in the open positions to sway the balance of power in the parties favor.

Guido Gomez Mazara, one of the "masterminds" of the PRD plan, is a key puppetmaster of the PRD movement. He has already arrogantly down-played a PLD victory by saying that they will have little power since the PRD controls the senate.

This is the sort of talk that will keep us in the stone-age. Guido will be quick to respond it is the PRD's democratic right to exercise that power, but it is a bleak out-look for the next 2 years until we can vote the PRD out of the senate as well as the municipalities.
 

NALs

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Business Idea People!!!

Narcosis, you just gave me a new business idea!!!

Betting on the Politicians!!!

$5 bets for the presidential candidate that will win
$3 bets if you think elections are going to be rigged
$1 bets if you think there are going to be more votes than voters in the coming up elections.


Think about it, there is money to be made in the island nation!
 
Narcosis said:
Sancocho:

That is the exact response expected from someone who will have a tough time ever belonging in that group. No offense maybe if you become a true self-made man in the USA and gain that respect for yourself you will be respected./QUOTE]


I guess it would be a tough time for many or myself if I had strived to achieve such a status. It has never been an aspiration of mine so its something I don't think much about. Respect is earned and not given. What people respect of the elite is the money itself and not the individual. Your right Forbeca, the topic of who qulifies has been discussed several times, but its fun to talk about.

Narcosis:

I also agree that multiple parties does water down the process. I used to be a strong proponent for multiparty system (more than 2) but in situation like DR, it tends to lean toward the negative and under-represents the true majorty.
 

deelt

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Mar 23, 2004
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Narcosis, there are better and more constructive ways to frame the issue than to bring in Balaguer's retarded "hatianization" ideology of Pena-Gomez. Balaguer was as much an opportunist with his own mixed Puerto Rican heritage.

The reason we should include issues of color is because it is also reflective of the economic allocation of resources in the country. The poorest of the poor are black and the richest of the rich are white, with minor exception. That is reality. It is also in the best interest of the PRSC and the PRD to maintain the status quo. History is reflective of this also with minor exceptions. The only party that is coming forward with progressive, forward-thinking, productive ideas of reform is the PLD in my opinion. But true change is hard when historically you/your family has been on the receiving end of political-affiliation benefits.

PEACE

Narcosis said:
I jumped on this thread after reading the opening lines from Amory because I believe that is the only way out of the current trend on all fronts in this country, what Balaguer once called the "hatianization" of the DR.

Dominicans that rally behind a Haitian. A man that had a clear vision for this country and knew what he had to do to get it done, and a party of socially inept retards, Haitians, or in Hippo's, Hatuey's and Milagros case political oportunists.

We need to embrace the core values that this country was founded on. It disgusts me to see post after post of a negative and distorted image people have of Dominicans. Hell some Dominicans don't have a clue because all they know is the present, they have no resourses to learn what this country was about, they don't have the luxury of knowing their parents many times much less their grandparents.

Hell no I say. Populists my ***, if we are to ever correct our course in history, we need to get our head out of the gutter and back into the progressive, forward-thinking, productive hands of the elite. Yeah thats right the elite, not because they drive a Mercedes but because they had the means for a good education, stable family and values, these are the elite we need. People that actually care how they will be judged in the future.