Dominicans and blacks

[ALB3]

Clipped Is Correct

I agree with you 100%. Speaking Spanish does not get you an I'm not Black pass. That's like saying because I speak English and not Yoruba/Swahili/etc... I'm not black. The majority of Dominicans get a slap in the face once in the U.S. with regards to their race. It reminds me of a joke told by a Puerto Rican who is in NY with his black american friends. They get pulled over by the police and the police say to them: "All you black guys get out of the car." The Puerto Rican stays in the car and the cops ask him what he is doing. He says: "I'm not black, I'm Puerto Rican." To which the cops reply: "You're just a Spanish speaking black person. Get out of the car!"

 

[ClippedWing]

Re: Re: (99% of the people in this World have never heard of the Dominican Republic!

I agree %100.



I find that most people who get hung up on the whole "black" thing are black themselves. When I speak to them I just see a person but they insist on remiding me .."Hey, I am Black, I am black, I am Black". So I say (in my own mind) "ok then, come back and talk to me when you get past your hangup about your color and want to speak on a human level".



Larry

Well perhaps that's the problem Larry. I never reinforce my race in a conversation unless I feel someone is disrespecting it. Instead of viewing blacks as "just people", perhaps if you saw them deeper than that, they wouldn't inject their race into it.

I also never reinforce my sex in a conversation unless I feel someone is disrespecting me as a woman. But if the need arises. Yes, I will remind someone several times over the course of a conversation that I am a woman, I a woman, I am a woman. and I will not be talked to any kind of way. Same goes for my race.

I also never reinforce my religion in a conversation unless I feel someone is disrespecting it.

I also never reinforce my citizenship in a conversation unless I feel someone is disrespecting my country.

Maybe when you're viewing blacks as just people, you're ignoring a lot of things and not acknowledging something important about them. And they perceive your disregard or unwillingness to connect as flippant and feel the need to remind you that they are deeper than being "just a person."

I for one don't view all races as "just people" and I hope I never will because I will then lose respect for our unique differences. We have a bunch of Indians from India onsite and I will sit and talk to them for hours and learn about them as people, their race, their culture, their opinions. And they love sharing this with me. If I saw them as "just people" I would treat them as such and not be sensitive to their boundaries and their needs as people of a race different than my own.

Respect all humans but at the same time do not disrespect the differences when trying to lump everybody into this one big happy human race category because as much as you may not believe it.. We are not all the same and should not be treated as such. Peoples races are not "hang ups", it's just who they are.

 

[El Moreno]

well thank you all for answering my post. the reason i bring up this question , is because i was interested in what u all think. Man times i find people trying to categorize what a dominican should look like or what a cuban should look like. and everyone says they look like puerto ricans or they are white. when people ask me what am i, i say dominican, so then they repsond by saying, "you look black". this often angers me. pero , me supongo es because of their ignorance

my mom is black american, and antillian (Curacao) and my father is "Dominicano ata la taborrra" y de pura cepa

 

[sancochojoe]

I don't think blacks in Carribean or Latin American nations lack self-love. They are what they are because of their environment, their culture, their teachings and upbringing.

You have to remember their history is very different from ours(assuming you're American) Cuba, DR, etc... they did not have the civil rights movements of the 60's where Blacks learned to embrace their race. They never learned to say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud. That is our history, our value system and it's not fair that we impose our beliefs on their culture.

I don't disagree, but I think we are saying the same thing.
It still a matter of self hate, does not matter where they got it from. If it was passed on from generation to generation it is hard to break that mindset. I see the behavior in the States as well. Self hate is just as great. We all know this.

There not going to verbally say they dislike their color, but there actions, motivations and perceptions of others not like them...i.e. White people show they are not happy with themselves.

comments such as "bad hair" or "pretty babies" etc etc.
Thats a form of self hate and miseducation.

Look at the latin countries in the caribean. They are proud of being latin, proud of the culture in many ways. What they are saying is that they are proud of what their Spanish Slave owners gave them. Psycologist have a classification for this, but I will have to do my research to find it, but in affect, over time the oppressed person learns to appreciate, defend, and indentify with their abuser i.e. the Slave owner. than over many generations its hard to break that mind set.

Since slavery broke much earlier in the caribean, they appear in some forms ajusted much better than Blacks in the states but not much.

I used to date a woman(of color) from Bermuda, which is still controlled by England. When the country was entertaining the idea a breaking away from england, she absolutely did not want that to happen.
She felt totally dependent on England and did not want self rule at all.

Key word - Miseducation.

and Miseducation breeds self hate.

 

[sancochojoe]

my mom is black american, and antillian (Curacao) and my father is "Dominicano ata la taborrra" y de pura cepa

Mi hermano, you already know and it is still in effect "The 1/16 Rule". If you have 1/16th of black blood in you, you are black in the eyes of America. I don't think Dominicans or other carribean latinos know this.

There are so many documented rules about Black Americans, it just blows me away.

 

[El Moreno]

although i appreciate the responses, i must say , many of u have some views of Dominicanos that are not correct. How can you say that we are just spanish speaking black people. In reality, now that i think of it, Dominican is our culture. Dominicans dont mean that we do not have black skin, we mean that we dont share the same culture as black americans. Black americans, listen to hip hop, r&b, rap, gospel, etc. and that is how many american blacks identify themselves. this is part of the definition of "black" in america. Also, the foods that blacks eat here are different.
Dominicans, listen to bachata, merengue, regaeton. In fact these musics are closer to "black african" culture then that of "black music".

now, you tell me, how can a black dominican, asimilate into black american culture, if we are excluded by black americans that dislike us because we dont eat what they eat or talk like they talk. If we dont eat fried chicken, mashed potatoes, we are not black. Just like if u dont eat mangu, platanos, y habichuelas, you cannot be Dominican

and for those confused, Dominican is both a nacionalidad y una cultura, while amongst blacks and latinos, "black" is a culture

 

[El Moreno]

Sancocho, i do agree with you. In the eyes of a white american, or any people that are not latino, we, are black. Un like my father, who swears he is pure dominican and doesnt have 1% black in him, i kno that i have "black" blood in me. i dont deny one bit of it. in fact it may seem crazy, but i am proud of "black african" heritage. Many Dominicans (my dad included), have forgotten that it is our "black african" roots that make us so unique. However, i still irritates me after i have identified myself as Dominican, and someone will tell me that i am black because of my physical charcteristics.

 

[sancochojoe]

although i appreciate the responses, i must say , many of u have some views of Dominicanos that are not correct. How can you say that we are just spanish speaking black people. In reality, now that i think of it, Dominican is our culture. Dominicans dont mean that we do not have black skin, we mean that we dont share the same culture as black americans. Black americans, listen to hip hop, r&b, rap, gospel, etc. and that is how many american blacks identify themselves. this is part of the definition of "black" in america. Also, the foods that blacks eat here are different.
Dominicans, listen to bachata, merengue, regaeton. In fact these musics are closer to "black african" culture then that of "black music".

I think your getting "identification" and "Culture" swisted.

1. You are identified as Black (simple enough)
2. your culture is Dominican (i.e. country, music, food, etc)
3. Heritage - Mother Afrika (music, food, color, personality, mannerisms)
5. History - SLAVE

Now where you getting that Black Americans exclude other blacks from different countries. I don't know. Thats a small minority of ingorant Black Americans, but the most I know will include a snotty nose white child in their family or community in a heart beat, and that kid will come out talking more jive and trash the any black person I know. The exclusion in language may be the only thing, but thats any culture. What I like so much about caribean blacks and Americans blacks is what they have in common that is a lot more than what they don't have.

And if you ever watch CSPAN a lot like I do, the Black American Congressman spend more time defending and creating recognition for Black Caribean and people of Afrika exclusively.
Only they in the House will ever bring the subject on the floor. Why? because they feel obligated and they do not feel any disconnect from the people of the Caribean and Afrika.

I remember bumping into Congressman Conyers(Black American) at the airport. Nobody seem to recognize him the airport in Washington DC but he was standing by himself and I walked up to him and said, "Congressman Conyers" and was happy to make conversation with a stranger like me. He asked where I was coming from and I said I just got back from DR and he was coming back from Cuba dealing with issues there. Thats all we talked about. He said how much he loved DR and we talked about the Caribean in general and detail. He really had the carribean at heart.

 

[ClippedWing]

although i appreciate the responses, i must say , many of u have some views of Dominicanos that are not correct. How can you say that we are just spanish speaking black people. In reality, now that i think of it, Dominican is our culture. Dominicans dont mean that we do not have black skin, we mean that we dont share the same culture as black americans. Black americans, listen to hip hop, r&b, rap, gospel, etc. and that is how many american blacks identify themselves. this is part of the definition of "black" in america. Also, the foods that blacks eat here are different.
Dominicans, listen to bachata, merengue, regaeton. In fact these musics are closer to "black african" culture then that of "black music".

now, you tell me, how can a black dominican, asimilate into black american culture, if we are excluded by black americans that dislike us because we dont eat what they eat or talk like they talk. If we dont eat fried chicken, mashed potatoes, we are not black. Just like if u dont eat mangu, platanos, y habichuelas, you cannot be Dominican

and for those confused, Dominican is both a nacionalidad y una cultura, while amongst blacks and latinos, "black" is a culture

So Black Americans are just some fried chicken, mash potatoe eating rap music listeners? ...LOL.. gee okay.

Clear you mind. Types of music and food does is not the definition of what black is. It's a stereotype. Not a definition.

Hey listen... You don't have to share America's culture. One thing about this country, we'll take just about anybody and let them be whatever. But yes, the DR is a mystery to many people. Americans are notorious for being ignorant to makeups of other countries. Our own President didnt' know that Brazil had blacks. So when you guys come over here, just educate us, teach us, share your country with us, show us on a map where it is. I love my American people, but I realize that we are centralized and unaware of the world around us.

So spread the word and enlighten people about your country.

 

[Criss Colon]

"Get Over It!"

Try looking to the future,and not dwelling in the "Past"!
6 million Jews were killed in Europe in the 30s and 40s!No one has forgotten that,but they have "started over"! Many as children with no parents!They too are still killed and discriminated against all over the World! Yet they move ahead!Never have I heard a Jew lament that his problems of today are a result of the "Persecution and Slavery of the Jews for the last 3 thousand years!! They are too busy studying,and working!Take a lesson!
And how about the Chinese,and Koreans,the Greeks,and Italians,Irish.Why is it that only the "Blacks" feel that once they have been sold into slavery,and then discriminated against,they can never overcome those hardships,and should be given "Special" considerations till doomsday!CC

 

[sancochojoe]

So Black Americans are just some fried chicken.......

Naw Baby, YAWD BIRD!!!

 

[El Moreno]

first of all your definition of identity and mine are obviously different.

identity:me

cultureominican ( which is part of who i am)

pysical characteristics: black

history: slave, slave owner

blood heritage:Taino, African,Spanish

Im sorry, my remark about blacks exluding other black cultures was ignorant. What i mean to say is that most Dominicans like my self live in regions where black mis treat us and exlcude us. I have lived in Washington Heights, Bronx, Philadelphia and queens. What i have noticed is that those that do not meet the requirements of blacks in that community, are not black. The largest population of Dominicans are in these regions. Now you tell me, would u feel like a "black" american, if you are made fun of because of your culture or excluded. When i first moved here, in philly, the black community excepted me, because i speak english without the slightest hint of dominican accent. But as soon as people heard me speak spanish, or they saw other dominicans dancing and having fun, they would tell us to leave, shut up or tell us that we are in america now. To be honest, i have only had several black friends, but when i would mention to them that my girlfriend is dominican, they would sneer make comments like why u cant have a black girlfriend. I am able to communicate with blacks more than my fathers side, because, i have been raised by black and dominicans. I understand both cultures, yet i am reminded by my mothers family, and other blacks in the area, that as long as i speak spanish and associate myself with being Dominican, i cannot be black. This ignorance is what many Dominicans experience.

Now Dominicans also do things that i dislike. Many times i hear my father make statements about how bllack people are rude, but i have to remind him that some things are not really rude, they are infact just different from what he is used to.

I do agree, that there are many blacks that do like to help dominicans and othe latinos.

and for those that seem to generalize Dominicans, we do not all think a like. Dominicans that come straight from island, dont think about being identified by color as much as blacks here do. We are not white, spanish, or black. We are Dominican. Our skin colors are indio claro, indio, or indio oscuro. I dont think any body should be called by their skin tone if it can be helped. if u ask me the color of someone's skin i will say it is brown, carmel, light brown, or dark brown, and sometimes ebony. but black is derrogatory. And because of the anger between haitians and dominicans, dominicans use black or negro to identify them. it is meant to be derrogatory. All Dominicanos that are indio oscurro or indio know that they have sangre moreno behind the ears.

 

[ClippedWing]

Re: "Get Over It!"

Try looking to the future,and not dwelling in the "Past"!
6 million Jews were killed in Europe in the 30s and 40s!No one has forgotten that,but they have "started over"! Many as children with no parents!They too are still killed and discriminated against all over the World! Yet they move ahead!Never have I heard a Jew lament that his problems of today are a result of the "Persecution and Slavery of the Jews for the last 3 thousand years!! They are too busy studying,and working!Take a lesson!
And how about the Chinese,and Koreans,the Greeks,and Italians,Irish.Why is it that only the "Blacks" feel that once they have been sold into slavery,and then discriminated against,they can never overcome those hardships,and should be given "Special" considerations till doomsday!CC

Chris how about you getting over it? okay? I challenge you to go through any of these posts and find one, just one post where number 1) any black has said their life is full of problems and then 2) where they place the blame of their problems on slavery...LOL

Get over it.. Jeez and quit conjuring it up in your mind because I talk openly about my history I'm complaining. I haven't complained or blamed anybody for anything. I'm talking, discussing, having conversations.

I know I haven't blamed slavery on my life, because my life is good and problem free. I'm probably more financially sound, I probably have a better education, went to better schools, grew up in better neighborhoods and came from a more stable family than the majority of white Americans. I have no reason to complain, but I'm not about to let you guilt me into freely talking about the history of my people.

I've studied, I work hard so you take a ******* lesson. Black people are NOT sitting around crying like you want them to just so you can have some validity to your foolish and unresearched claims.

I have never met or had a conversation with any black person that blamed slavery when times got hard. I blame slavery for racism but that's about it. Everything else we are working on fixing not BLAMING. So just stop it with this assinine line of thought that someone is boo hooing over the past. If jews, italians and all those other folks you named can talk about their past then so can I. Sorry that makes you feel uncomfortable, but build a bridge and get the **** over it. Okay?


Smooches...clip.

 

[El Moreno]

Clipped Wings


I did not mean to stereotype, about the friend chicken/ mashed potato. I was using that as an example of what people in my neigborhood define as "black". The truth is , nobody is confined to listening, to a type of music , nor are they confined to the foods they eat or a culture. Im sorry i made that remark.

Criss Colon

Blacks hold to the past because we are still going through things that Jews, chinese, and others are not. Jews in america are no longer oppressed because of who they are. Blacks and latinos are still discriminated against because, we clearly have african blood and or indigenous blood. A person from spain is accepted in america as white, because he or she is white european. So you tell me! why we can't get over esa vaina. our past is also our present and will most likely be in our futures, unfortunately

 

[carl ericson70]

Me thinks.

I think that the designation"latin or hispanic"can mean many different things for many different people.To some it might be a source of identity,others might not agree with it and some might be rather nuetral.

No offense to anyone here,but the term"hispanic"is really a theoretical designation,created in the united states during the late 60's(fill in the reasons).When you look at it-it makes about as much sense as lumping americans,britons,autralians,bahamians,jamaicans etc..into one distinct cultural category simply because they share some of the the same colonial & linguistic heritages.

Addressing the starting topic:Most people use"black"as a general racial designation and"dominican"as a national desgnation.

From what I've seen a hefty percentage of the DR's population looks more black/afro than anything else.I'd give it a good 55% to 60% of the pop.(Regardless of what dominicans may classify themselves as)The rest mestizos & whites or close etc..

In short if you're a dominican who's mistaken for black.Eheem! it's because you more than likely are.I mean,with some racial & ethnic stocks it's possible to get crossed up:For example some asians look hispanic,some italians look like arabs etc...,but with black ancestry however,you typically can't go wrong,as their features,hair textures & skin colors stand apart from most others.So when someone is black(to a signifigant degree)most people are easily able to tell.

God bless!
Carl e.

 

[Larry]

Jews in america are no longer oppressed because of who they are.--El Moreno


Oh no? And why is that? It's because they dont wallow and lament. They are too busy making things work for them. They dont sit around screaming "racism" and looking for acceptance or sympathy or what have you. They make it a point of rallying together and pushing ahead.

Larry (by the way, I am not a Jew, I am just calling it as I see it)

edited to add: When I was in high school, I worked in a supermarket. It was owned by a Jew who was in a concentration camp when he was a child. He always wore long sleeves because he had a serial number burned into his forearm. His entire family died in the camp. He came to the USA all alone as a teenager and now owns a string of supermarkets. I never heard him blaming not being able to get ahead on the fact that he was Jewish and his family had been slaughtered. He didnt look for an excuse to point fingers. He took control over his own life.

Take from that what you will.

 

[sancochojoe]

first of all your definition of identity and mine are obviously different.

identity:me

cultureominican ( which is part of who i am)

pysical characteristics: black

history: slave, slave owner

blood heritage:Taino, African,Spanish

I think we are on point except with Heritage. To be honest
that too is not much different with a lot if you look at it in its rarist form

Indian, African, European which a large majority of Black americans share as well.

You also have to realize that the island in the Caribean actually have the same Native Caribeans,

Taino is not religated to DR

Taino had thrived in modern-day Cuba, the Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico and DR and Barbados and smaller tribes in Jamaica and a lot still live an exist in Puerto Rico and Barbados. One of the first dwellings was discovered in Cuba.

There is an organization called the United Confederation of Taino People that recognizes the Nation of the Taino

 

[El Moreno]

Carl only 16 % of Dominican population are black, 73% are mulatto or mestizo and 11% are white. Now, 84% are of black african ancestry.

Now, to be mistaken for black, one has to have african traits. such as, darker skin then mulatto, or more tight curlier hair. sometimes its the shapes of our noses, or sometimes its the bone structure of the face.

i am Mulatto my grandmother, is mestizo, while my grandfather is "white" or spanish.

My mother's mother, is directly of African descent, while her father is an african american and indian. My skin is not dark brown until the summer, and my hair is that of a mixed person. It is my nose and my lips that gives me my "black" image

 

[Jimmyrisas]

Just Educating

For all of those that are not familiar with the Dominican Culture, or at least are starting to learn about it.

The Dominican society does not accept having a culture iinfluence by Africans. Not just the race factor but also all cultural aspects.
You have to understand that our cultural values are praised only if there were European.

Being Blanco is "Lindo" and unfortunately being Black for us is being "Feito."

What we need is a Dominican Mohamed Ali, to make Dominican society overcome this low-steem problem amongst us.

Those who have not experienced it, can not express themselves.

Bienvenido a La Republica Dominicana.......

 

[El Moreno]

Sancocho, what you say is true. However, afro americans are mixed with indians of a different blood line. Tainos were caribbean natives that came from Venezuela. Originating from, the Afro-Aryan population of india and asians. However, Dominicans and other latinos, remain more "mixed looking", because segregation wasnt a problem in the DR like it was in america. Therefore, interracial relations occured way more than here. Hint, the physical different between Dominicans and Afro americans