Dominicans and their ancestry

[FuegoAzul21]

You are still blowing hot smoke. The child population is about a third (as I said) not the majority (as you said). Based on the sample I used it was 37%. You clearly used a different sample than I did (SF2). The scenario you were presenting is off.

The median age is 24. I'll give you that gladly. That doesn't make them any less native, meaning, US born...to correct you. That also makes them 2nd and third generation folks...longstanding members within the US. I would also would not be so quick to assume that the traditional household does not include an elderly....Actually this is the case in 96% of the households.

Peace

You mean in your opinion, its off, doesnt mean its true,however i do respect your opinion .If you would have read the post a little closer you would have noticed that i said that mexicans under the age of 24 were the majority by a small margin,however thats very significant especially in a country where the average age is 35 if not older .
i never said children were the majority of mexicans , i said that children of the foriegn born mexicans make up a significant portion of the native born mexican populace (i said a good portion if not most , so that means both) . Im using that data sets from the American Fact Finder that show the demoghraphics of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans in the U.S.A .I gave you the link .I figured since i used your favorite and beloved source you would finally admit that the race census on mexicans and hispanics in general were pretty off ,but NO!! , Nope!!! , still you wont budge , even though i ve put it all on the table .First you say i have no sources or proof , i show you my sources and my proof ,all you can say is that im wrong and cant strenghten your arguement on how most mexicans are white .Being American doesnt mean white . its been noted why most of them marked white, there were also a large amount(250,000) of mexicans that marked black becuase of thier dark skin ( most likely individuals with strong indian ancestry from southern mexico) , there isnt even that many blacks in Mexico !!!!! . Obviously , many hispanics were misinformed and confused . It doesnt take a genuis to figure out that most hispanics in the U.S.A are not white.i once saw a magazine report on it giving examples like Sammy Sosa would be considered a black Hispanic and Oscar De La Hoya a white Hispanic . As soon as i read that it was clear to me that the figures were pretty off of due to the fact that Oscar isnt white , and if he is why doesnt he look like Luis Miguel,Alejandro Fernandez ,Christian Castro, or the rest of Mexicos stars .You wanna know why? becuase he is not .he is your typical Mexican(pure blooded) a.k.a meztizo .How about this one ,If he was white why would he be from poor run down East L.A not some rich place in Mexico .Also , mexicos white population makes a small percentage of its total population (something like 9 %) and from what i understand most of them are rich(not exactly the ones you find crossing the border) .


P:S according to my numbers elderly mexicans make up only 7 % of the mexicans that live in the U.S.A . how is it possible that there is one in every household (the average household size is 4) in my source , i have that about 12 % of households have someone that is over 65 and 2.6 %of elderly mexicans dont live in households (mind you this is from the same census you use),prove to me the 96% figure.a good portion of this group is probably American-born due to the fact that Americans live longer than mexicans on average , so the native born ones will be the majority .

 

[Matos]

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Wow, I thought we were out of elementary school to be able to have a good debate here.

Now even gays are being brought into this. My my my...

BTW, you have not backed up that info that I told you about. Come on, let everyone know the source.

It doesn't matter if the source is a website or not, let everyone know.

This should be in your best interest.

Also, here is a link about the Carib Indians Reservation on the island of Dominica (not DR) in the Lesser Antilles.

Hmm, these indians don't look like the Aztecs or Mayans. Isn't that something!

http://www.avirtualdominica.com/caribs.htm

Why are you so Sensitive...The whole gay thing was a joke come done...Now here are the source i've giving over a HUNDRED times....This is the last time i'm going to send you this particuliar sources........Anyway there are thousands of more source....However i'm not trying to take up the whole screen again....I don't want people in this chat room to think that i'm a prissy little sensitive girl LIKE YOU......

RACIAL AND ETHNIC GROUPS

Ethnic Heritage

The island's indigenous inhabitants were mainly Taino Indians, an Arawak-speaking group, and a small settlement of carib Indians around the Bahia de Samana. These indians, estimated to number perhaps 1 million at the time of their initial contact with Europeans, all of whom had been killed or died by the 1550's as a result of harsh spanish treatment. The Tainos were especially ill-treated.
The importation of African slaves began in 1503. By the nineteenth century, the population was roughly 150,000: 40,000 were spanish descent,40,000 were black slaves, and the remainder were either freed blacks or mulattoes. In the mid-1990's, approximately 10% of the population was white and 15 percent black; the remainder were mulattoes-- 75 percent(the percentages of dominico haitian or haitions are not included). Since then the percentage of whites has been slowly decreasing and that of mulattoes increasing; the black percentage has remained almost about the same. The figures about ethnic ration and its changing composition are a SENSITIVE Dominican issue because many elite and upper-class whites are anti-african(blacks and mulattoes) and seek to claim a higher, constant "white" figure. Many mulattoes, however, claim a larger percentage for themselves at the same time that many others have difficulty acknowledging their African roots.
Contemporary Dominican society and culture are primarily spanish in origin. At the same time, much of popular culture reflects many African influences. Taino influence is limited to cultigens, such as Maize or Corn, and a few vocabulary words, such as huracan(hurricane) and hamaca(hammock). The African influence in society was officially suppressed and ignored by the Trujillo regime(1930_1961) and then by Balaguer until the 1980s. However, certain religious brotherhoods with significant black membership have incorporated some afro-american elements. Observers also have noted the presence of African influence in popular dance and music(see Culture, this ch.)
There has long been a preference in Dominican society for light skin, straight hair, and "white" racial features. Blackness in itself, however, does not necessarily restrict a person to a lower status position. Upward mobility is possible for the dark-skinned person who manages to acquire educatiohn or wealth. During the era of Trujillo, joining the military became a major means of upward mobility, especially for dark and light skinned Dominicans-the white elite would not permit its sons to join). Social characteristics focusing on family background, education, and economic standing are, in fact, more prominent means of identifying and classifying individuals. Darker-skinned persons are concentrated in the east, the south, and the far west near the Haitian border. The population of the Cibao, especially in the countryside, consists mainly of whites or mulattoes.
Dominicans traditionally prefer to think of themselves as descendants of the island's indians and the spanish, ignoring their African heritage. Thus, phenotypical African characteristics, such as dark skin pigmentation, are disparaged. Trujillo, a light-skinned mulatto who claimed that he was "white" (French and Spanish), instituted as official policy that dominicans were racially white, culturally spanish, and religiouly Roman Catholic. Balaguer continued this policy until the 1980s when he openly recognized African cultural and social influences. He made the change because, first he followed two opposition party governments, those of presidents Guzman(1978-82) and Jorge Blanco (1982-86), who had officially recognized the country's African roots. Second, he was appealing for votes as he prepared for his reelection campaign in 1986. Because of Trujillo's and then Balaguers racial conditioning, emigrants and visitors to the United States are often shocked to discover that they are viewed as "black". However, they and many back home welcomed the civil rights and black pride movements in NOrth America in the 1960s and 1970s. Those returning brought a new level of racila consciousness to the republic because they had experienced both racial and prejudice and the black pride movement. The returning emigrants who broughtt back Afrom hairstyles and a variety of other Afro-Nort Americanisms received mixed reatios from their fellow dominican, however.


Nalowhs here are a few books for you to read..there goes your proof i hope you learn

see i'm not making this up.......and i am not gonna send you any internet information because most are wrong anyway.....Here are some text books writting by scientist and FEDERAL RESEARCH DIVISION LIBRARY OF CONGRESS and other groups of people(oh and i'm not screaming so calm down)

Robert L. Worden
chief
Federal Research Division
Library of Congress

Econmist Intelligence unit. Country Report, 3rd Quarter 1997: cuba dominican rep. haiti puerto rico ect....

Crassweller, Robert. Trujillo: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF A CARIBBEAN DICTATOR
GUERRERO, MIGUEL. El golpe de estado. Historia dl derrocamiento de Juan Bosch..Santo Domingo

HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH.(you guys really need to read this)Human Rights watch report from New york: in 1998 whoa
and ect..............
uups i gotta go but if anybody is interested to learn(who is not racist of course) about there culture ask me some question maybe we could all learn from each other.....

 

[Chris_NJ]

The story from Jorge Estevez was interesting. By looking at his picture I would believe he has Indian blood.

 

[NALs]

Not just that, but people are now realizing that European slave owners in Santo Domingo during colonial times lied about Taino extinction in order to get more slaves. Here is an interesting link...

http://www.kacike.org/cac-ike/KearnsD.html

 

[Quisqueya]

Comments!!!

BTW,

1. Anacaona was indeed Taina but I believe she was on the west side of the island(Haiti)....

2. Haitians or the country "Haiti" is a Taino words and Kreyol have many words used from them.
3. BTW, there are many many places in Haiti(which is a taino word) that have Taino traits.
3. Why are dominicans so obsessed with a weak gene/group of people that basically vanished due to miscegnation?

4. In South America and Central amer. to associate someone as "indio" is an insult and is basically offending the person(degrade).

The funny thing is they REALLY have visible indigenous traits but avoid their dominant traits like dominicans avoiding their dominant trait.

Just food 4 thought...





1 who was the people that interact with colon
2 from where it is the history about the native of espanola DR or Haiti ? your answer it is in the diary of colon.

3 do you know dr people history el cacique enriquillo, anacaona, moncio hija de anacaona who married enriquillo and right now someboby have that gene in DR, caonabo , guacaganari typically use by dominican people " el complejo de guacaganari"

4 do you know when all of these happens
I think this happens around the 1490 and by 1550 all native of espanala were part of spain colonization.

5 do you know when haitian were brought to that nonpopulated area. what is now haiti. thats why you dont find native caves with picture, and ceramics in haiti. your answer here by 1770 0r more after spain give this part to french.

haitians????????????????????????????????????native ja ja ja ja ja ja ja
puerto rican white or native jaj ja ja ja ja ja

taino doesnt mean people . colon mistake this expression " hi" for a race when he met what is now dominican rep. we contribute many words like dr word huracan, hamaca, payaya etcccc

tell me why pr doesnt use native word to speak if they have 5 % native compare to cibaenos or noneducated DR people in general. the i substitution for R and ao for word ends ado like compai, too for todo or pasao for pasado. this form of speak is part of native of DR. doesnt it sound native trying to learn spanish language.

our people look here

http://www.uslatino.com/events/Miss...antoDomingo_DianniMotaInterview_5_3_04&page=1

http://www.uslatino.com/events/Miss...antoDomingo_DianniMotaInterview_5_3_04&page=1

http://www.terra.com/mujer/especiales/missmundo2003/ficha_republicadominicana.htm

http://www.centrelink.org/TestimonyC.html

http://www.kacike.org/IntroductionEnglish.html

http://www.villasombrero.com/Album_de_Fotos/Reina/Reina_Slide/06.JPG

http://www.villasombrero.com/Album_de_Fotos/Reina/Reina_Slide/11.JPG

here some mestizo

now you want to see the white from DR[/QUOTE]

 

[Mr_DR]

Why are dominicans so obsessed with a weak gene/group of people that basically vanished due to miscegnation?

4. In South America and Central amer. to associate someone as "indio" is an insult and is basically offending the person(degrade).

The funny thing is they REALLY have visible indigenous traits but avoid their dominant traits like dominicans avoiding their dominant trait.

[/QUOTE]

Hey, are you even dominican?

The indios from Central and South American countries get offended when they are called indios because rich people in those countries have always treated them like ****, have always kept them down and have demoralized them in every possible ways to the point that they even hate themselves for what day are and would almost do anything to to distanciate themselves away from their true identity.....which is why in many of these countries they go to extreme to even bleach blonde their hair especially in Mexico.

Indio is the word that these people are called as a form of discrimation by the rich and the non indigenous.

They also use the word Indio when they are referring to someone as been stupid.

Now you tell me..... would you like to be called an Indian under these circumstances?

 

[Mr_DR]

So quisqueya,

When you call a Central/South American the word ''Indio'' you are not just calling him a savage but your also calling them uneducated and low class.

 

[NALs]

Hey, are you even dominican?

The indios from Central and South American countries get offended when they are called indios because rich people in those countries have always treated them like ****, have always kept them down and have demoralized them in every possible ways to the point that they even hate themselves for what day are and would almost do anything to to distanciate themselves away from their true identity.....which is why in many of these countries they go to extreme to even bleach blonde their hair especially in Mexico.

Indio is the word that these people are called as a form of discrimation by the rich and the non indigenous.

They also use the word Indio when they are referring to someone as been stupid.

Now you tell me..... would you like to be called an Indian under these circumstances?

[/QUOTE]
I think Quisqueya is a Haitian, if I remember correctly from another thread.

BTW, why is it that you don't allow PM's Mr_DR? Instead of allowing emails, allow PM's.

Just my opinion.

 

[Oche]

So Mr_DR, using the same reasoning pattern as you have said about the central and southamericans, would it be as offensive as calling a central or southamerican an "indian" to address or refer a haitian or a low class dominican as a negro or mulatto?

 

[Quisqueya]

Comments



the same obssession like you and matos have.


BTW, this is my first post addressing this issue...I personally could care less if dominicans considered themselves "Indio" No matter what, everyone else in the "World" thinks otherwise by what they see with their own two eyes. Now if you tell me most dominicans are mixed "mulattos" then I'll have to say yes and for freebies a tad of Taino....

1 haitians native word tell me that word I thought were african words.

Haiti means great/high mountains which is an indigenous word.


2. I thought the they were brought in 1770 to what it is haiti. that why 100 % black.
from 1498 to 1550 all happens with spain and native not the french , haitia, native.
where is haiti history in the diari of colon about DR native.

Obviously you skipped several chapters in the history books. The two (haiti & DR) are intertwined in history...One question when does dominican history begin? If you answer that with all honesty than you'll come to the light...Dominicans didn't even exist until 1844. Thus, dominicans weren't mixing with anything before than because you didn't exist..the east side was the property of Spain and the West property of the French... Its funny that you glamourize Colon like if he was a genious...the idiot thought he landed in India thus giving the region the name "West Indies". Thus, in Colons diary he couldn't of mention DR natives because DR did not exist...How can he write about Dominicans when that concept wasn't even a thought...

 

[Matos]

LOL...this is just fun for me that's all

2. I thought the they were brought in 1770 to what it is haiti. that why 100 % black.

I don't have an obssession....... and yes Haiti is a indigenous word... 100% black LOL ignorants is bliss....

In 1697, under the treaty of Ryswick, Spain ceded the western third of the island to France......Anyhow here is some food for thought...

"The nineteenth century struggle for independence of what was to become the Dominican Republic was an incredibly difficult process, conditioned by the evolution of it's neighbor. Although they shared the island of hispaniola, the colonies of Saint-domingue (Haiti) and Santo domingo followed disparate paths, primarily as a result of economic factors. Saint-domingue was the most productive agricultural colony in the Western Hemisphere, and its output contributed heavily to the economy of France. Prosperous French plantation owners imported great numbers of slaves from Africa and drove this captive work force ruthlessly. By contrast, Santo domingo was a small, unimportant, and largely ignored colony with little impact on the economy of spain.
Although by the end of the eighteenth cetury economic conditions were improving somewhat, landowners in Santo Domingo did not enjoy the same level of wealth attained by their French counterparts in Saint-domingue. The absence of market driven pressure to increase production enabled the domestic labor force to meet the needs of subsistence agriculture and to export at low levels. Thus, Santo Domingo imported far fewer african slaves than did Saint-domingue. SPANISH LAWS ALSO ALLOWED A SLAVE TO PURCHASE HIS FREEDOM AND THAT OF HIS FAMILY FOR A RELATIVELY SMALL SUM. This FACT contributed to the higher proportion of freedmen in the Spanish colony THAN IN HAITI; by the turn of the century, freedmen actually constituted the majority of the population. Again, in contrast to cnditions in the french colony, this population profile contributed to a smewhat more egalitarian society, plagued much less by racial schisms.
With a revolution against the monarchy well underway in france, the inevitable explosion took place in Saint-domingue in August 1791. The initial reaction of many spanish colonists to news of the slaughter of Frenchmen by armies of rebellious black slaves was to flee Hispaniola entirely. Spain, however, saw in the unrest an opportunity to seize all or part of the western third of the island through an alliance of convenience with the British. These intentions, however, did not survive encounters in the field with forces led by the former slave Francois Dominique Toussaint Louverture. By mid 1795, Spain had signed a peace treaty with France in which it surrendered the eastern part of the island; the terms of the treaty reflected spain's setbacks in europe and its relative decline as a world power. In recognition of his leadership against the spanish, British,and rebellious royalists and Mulattoes, Toussaint was named governor general of Saint-domingue by the French Republic in 1796. After losing more than 25,000 troops, britain withdrew from the island in April 1798. Tooussaint marched into Santo Domingo in January 1801; one of his first measures was to abolish SLAVERY."

email me if you want me to continue the history of Dominican Republic and Haiti...

ps...The 1809 restoration of spanish rule ushered in an era referred to by some historians as Espana boba (Foolish spain). Under the despotic rule of Rerdinand , th colonys economy deteriorated severely. Some dominicans began to wonder if their interess would not best be served by the sort of independece movement that was sweeping the south american colonies. IN keeping with this sentiment, Spanish lieutenant governor Jose Nunez de Caceres announced the colonys independence as the state of SPANISH HAITI on November 30 1821.......I have a friend name Francois Preval who is a full blooded haitian....He is living in Santiago near my home... HE IS WHITE HAS GREENISH YELLOWISH EYES AND HAS GOOD DARK HAIR...NOW IF HAITIANS ARE 100% BLACK THAN WHY IS HE WHITER THAN MOST DOMINICANS AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE WHAT IM TYPING...GIVE ME YOUR EMAIL ADRESS AND I'LL SEND YOU A PICTURE OF US CHILLING IN DOMINICAN REPUBLIC....

I"M not yelling the caps is just to make things clear.......

Source::: Dominican Republic and Haiti Country Studies/Federal research division Library of congress edited by Helen Chapin Metz.
dominican authors....Juan Bosh Gavino and Pedro Mir ect........

 

[Mr_DR]

So Mr_DR, using the same reasoning pattern as you have said about the central and southamericans, would it be as offensive as calling a central or southamerican an "indian" to address or refer a haitian or a low class dominican as a negro or mulatto?

You know what?

I am gonna let you answer that question yourself.

Do you get offended when people call you a thief and a liar when you neither.
Do non German Nazis get offended when they are called Nazies?
Do black African Americans get offended when they are called Negroes?
Does a British get offended when he is called Irish?

But this is not the main issue here on this thread.
The main concern here is that many foreigns have succeeded in brain washing many weak dominicans minds into thinking that dominicans do not carry any taino genes in their blood. Therefore we can't say that we dominicans are a development from Tainos, Spaniards and Afrikan according to those people. When in fact i am standing here as living proof that many of us dominicans still have taino genes running through our blood as well as a study that was conducted on this issue not long ago where they were shocked with the results to find out that taino blood is more existent than what they originally thought among dominicans.

I am gonna see if i can retrieve that study and I will post it.

So, I don't need a weak minded dominican or a foreign that has never even laid a foot in the Dominican Republic but yet wants to write a book to tell me that I am not taino.

 

[Mr_DR]

I think Quisqueya is a Haitian, if I remember correctly from another thread.


[/QUOTE]
That is all we need now.

Somebody from Haiti that can't even understand her own people tell us what we are and we are not.

BTW, why is it that you don't allow PM's Mr_DR? Instead of allowing emails, allow PM's.[/QUOTE]
I have not try messing with the PM yet.

 

[Mr_DR]

the same obssession like you and matos have.


BTW, this is my first post addressing this issue...I personally could care less if dominicans considered themselves "Indio" No matter what, everyone else in the "World" thinks otherwise by what they see with their own two eyes. Now if you tell me most dominicans are mixed "mulattos" then I'll have to say yes and for freebies a tad of Taino....

1 haitians native word tell me that word I thought were african words.

Haiti means great/high mountains which is an indigenous word.


2. I thought the they were brought in 1770 to what it is haiti. that why 100 % black.
from 1498 to 1550 all happens with spain and native not the french , haitia, native.
where is haiti history in the diari of colon about DR native.

Obviously you skipped several chapters in the history books. The two (haiti & DR) are intertwined in history...One question when does dominican history begin? If you answer that with all honesty than you'll come to the light...Dominicans didn't even exist until 1844. Thus, dominicans weren't mixing with anything before than because you didn't exist..the east side was the property of Spain and the West property of the French... Its funny that you glamourize Colon like if he was a genious...the idiot thought he landed in India thus giving the region the name "West Indies". Thus, in Colons diary he couldn't of mention DR natives because DR did not exist...How can he write about Dominicans when that concept wasn't even a thought...

You will think it is tad because you forget that in a population that is only close to 8 millions and more than 1 quarter of this population are the sons and daughters of legal as well as illegal Haitians emigrants in the country. Take them away including all those haitians that want to say they are dominicans to avoid deportations and because they are ashamed to say they are haitians and see if you would still just see a tad.

And as far as the Dominican existence goes, it is unfortunate to say that the Domincan people became in exsistence since the first moment these horny spaniards raped these women which is one of the only reasons why I don't know why many of us dominicans worship Christopher Columbus when they were the ones that looked and acted like true savages by raping and killing the tainos when the only thing they did wrong was to just welcome them to their land in open arm and fed them and gave them valuable things in exchange for crap but yet they had the audacity to call them savages.

I am not trying to shift from the main focus but that is the only thing i will never understand from dominicans.

 

[DRsScarface]

wow

Some of those pictures are really bad...especially the Amelia Vega one(caught her in a bad moment..lol)

 

[DRsScarface]

It's Possible

CIGUAYO,
First of all, you might want to proof read your posts before you post them here. A lot of them are hard to understand and sounds like nonsense. Also, there is a possibility that that a few Haitians have Taino ancestry because DR and Haiti are on one island. However, the african element is A LOT stronger in Haiti than any other (French, Taino etc.)

Quisqueya,
Why are you so quick to say that Haiti has Taino influence but keep saying that there is only a "tad" of Taino presence in the DR. I don't know why but I get a feeling that you're always trying to place Haiti above the DR. Also, what Mr DR said is also true about there being about 1million undocumented Haitians in DR. When tourists go to DR they tend to confuse them for Dominicans.

 

[Matos]

I think your the one who is haitian

1. I thought haitian speak pautua which it is french and african
2.in order for haiti to speak native language they must be in contact with native
3 where is in history that native and haitiano are mixed. in your book.

what was espanola , 1498 0r now it is dominican culture and people not haitian, or cocolo .

The early grants of land without obligation under the repartimiento system resulted in a rapid decentralization of power. Each landowner possessed virtually sovereign authority. Power was diffused because of the tendency of the capital city, Santo Domingo (which also served as the seat of government for the entire Spanish Indies), to orient itself toward the continental Americas, which provided gold for the crown, and toward Spain, which provided administrators, supplies, and immigrants for the colonies. Local government was doomed to ineffectiveness because there was little contact between the capital and the hinterland; for practical purposes, the countryside fell under the sway of the large landowners. Throughout Dominican history, this sociopolitical order was a major factor in the development of some of the distinctive characteristics of the nation's political culture such as paternalism, personalism, and the tendency toward strong, even authoritarian, leadership.

http://countrystudies.us/dominican-republic/3.htm

ttp://www.hispaniola.com/DR/Guides/History.html
http://www.hispaniola.com/index.php

so who history is

the haiti is not sure taino word and the hatians learned by listening the name as slave from french. so you claiming that haitian are mixed of taino ja ja ja ja ja ja so then african american and african in general are taino. they look the same way.

to matos. matos I think you are a haitian 100 % and live in santiago which it is polluted with full of haitians.

You don't know much about dominican history...Your sources are remote....And listen...lil Trujillo... "Polluted with haitians" you have some issues that need to be fixed buddy.....

 

[Quisqueya]

Ciguayo,

U have alot of issues..What's wrong with being black..you have a big time inferior complex...and thus, try to hold on to Taino heritage to avoid what's more dominant in the DR...

BTW, you're culture is even more african than African American..thus, dominicans are more Africanized than African Americans.


Scarface,

I pointed out the Taino traits in Haiti just to point out to ciguayo that the whole island was inhabited by Taino. I personally dont want to glamourize the Taino heritage and make it to be some honor or value.


Its funny that dominicans dont know what to do when the see haitians lighter than them..Its hard to accept it because know you the one called dark...by a white lighter haitian.....

http://www.sakapfet.com/tvice/t-vice_main.tpl....

you claim that DR are black like haitian. why dont take a look, and see that 11% percent of the black in DR are haitians or descendance of haitians or cocolo. there is more than three millons of haitians in DR and the one that are hiding as dominicans. you can ask any black dominicans about their ancesters and you will find haitians origins. they wont tell you but there is something behind them. plus if we include the cocolo.

think about it by the 1960, there were about 3000,0000 dominicans, trujillo got killed the DR treple to almost 9000,000 millons to 2005. this must be impossible. plus if we include the haitians that immigrated during their invasion and stayed here by 1820-1840. in addition to frontier open free to haitians to get inside DR.

plus we accept more blacks in DR the cocolo from english origin.

so , if we do estimate, there are more haitians in DR than dominicans.

it is rarely to find black dominicans (mongolo) from billa mella. these are the black bring by spain. the dominican republic get the less slavery blacks compare to other latin countries. now we cant say that. we should thank to our neighbord for this gift. I guess if our neighbord were white, the DR shape would be different.

1 DRscarface what proof you want,
2 why the reading ARE unclear if I just post picture
3 why you get upset when we speak about haiti
4 what haitian has native blood according to you. even the french never saw a taino in that territory.
5 the only people who get into contact with taino was the spaniards and ever deal with them.
6 show me the evidence where

here are the taino people according to you

http://hrw.org/americas/dom_rep/p_essay.html

how the haitians have taino blood if they came to the island by 1700 0r more and the spaniard have total control of taino by 1550.

I hope you like this time my picture and comments. maybe next time I say the haitians are taino to make you happierrrrrrrrr

 

[NALs]

BTW, you're culture is even more african than African American..thus, dominicans are more Africanized than African Americans.

Wow, then why should Dominicans listen to African-Americans or Dominicans influenced by African-Americans about blackness, when in fact, the African-Americans themselves are the most detached from Africa to begin with!

Yet, here is Latin America where African cultural traits have blended well with the European and Native component in most Latin American countries and yet, in Latin countries the notion of black/white does not exist!

This just prooves that the American idea of race is wrong and should not be incorporated into the rational thinking of anybody else.

I pointed out the Taino traits in Haiti just to point out to ciguayo that the whole island was inhabited by Taino. I personally dont want to glamourize the Taino heritage and make it to be some honor or value.

I think what Ciguayo has been trying to say with respect to the Tainos is that historically, the Tainos were met by the Spaniards.

By the time St. Domingue colony (Haiti) was established, most of the Tainos were either dead, owned as slaves by the Spaniards, or miscegination had already taken place into creating mestizos.

As such, it makes sense to believe that the French and later the Africans they imported into Haiti had little to no contact with the natives, given that all the Spaniards and Indians were moved to the eastern part of the island before the French sneaked in and took control of the desolate western part.

This could very well explain the extremely low incidence of Taino-African encounters or Taino-French encounter in Haiti as oppose to what happened with the Spaniards and Tainos before the French had come into the equation.

Its funny that dominicans dont know what to do when the see haitians lighter than them..Its hard to accept it because know you the one called dark...by a white lighter haitian.....

Haiti is 95% black and only 4% are made up of something else, mostly mulattos, but also middle easterners. In addition, a mere 1% of Haitians are believe to be white or have strong white genes.

The thing is that the entire 5% that is composed of others in Haiti are the one's who have all the money.

Haiti would have been much wealthier and much more varied racially if the Haitian Dictator Boyer and Faustin did not persecuted and massacred the mulattos and whites in all major Haitian cities except Port-au-Prince.

In fact, blacks in Haiti hated whites for the colonial legacy and hated mulattos for not being black enough. Once a pure black Haitian made it to the presidency, racial wars broke out all over Haiti, by blacks persecuting and killing most mulattos and whites there.

The only problem was that the people with money were the whites and mulatto and in the proccess of annihalation, the racist Haitian leaders destroyed their country's base and group of people who had the mean and desire to invest in their homeland. Maybe, just maybe if Haiti would had been more racially inclusive like the DR, maybe Haiti today would have been among the wealthiest countries in the Caribbean, if not, at least wealthier than what it is today.

Now, think for a moment. All of this stuff occured in Haiti, just over the mountains from the DR so to speak. What exactly do you expect Dominicans (who are mostly mulattos and white) to react when they see Haitians?

After all those racially motivated battles within Haiti by Haitians towards Haitians and their constant attempt to invade the DR, what does anybody expect.

Do people actually think Dominicans are going to sit around with open arms and welcome the Haitians? Many Haitians even claim that the Haitian army did nothing wrong when Haitian Dictator Boyer had to retreat his troops back to Haiti after attempting to take control of Santo Domingo, but couldn't. Many Haitians claim that Haiti had a duty to kill all the Dominicans that were massacred in Moca, Santiago, La Vega and other towns as the troops were retreating back to their side.

Haiti has never even apologized for that massacre and from that point forward Dominicans have feared and detested Haitians in general. What does it cost to say you guys are sorry? I mean, Trujillo massacred 40,000 or so Haitians in the 1930s, that number pales to the number of Dominicans that the Haitian slaughtered during their invasions and Trujillo publicly apologized and granted reparations.

Sure, $50 per Haitian killed is almost an insult for such a low sum, but the last time I checked, the Haitians have given the DR $0 for the Dominicans they massacred, have shown no remorse for their invasion, continue to claim that they did nothing wrong and now they want for us to accept them in our country with open arms.

I understand why Turks and Caicos should be nicer to Haitians than they are, I understand why Bahamians should be nicer to Haitians than they are, I understand why the French Antilles should be nicer to Haitians then they are. But Dominicans simply want an apology.

In fact, I think most educated Dominicans no longer will accept an apology, as sad as that may sound.

 

[juancarlos]

This is, has to be, the most popular/controversial subject on this board and it keeps growing and growing! It was here and going strong before I went on vacation and I came back a week later and it is here and stronger than ever.