- Thread starter Expat13
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DR developing country or still 3rd world?
If you think giving a cop who maybe makes US150 a month RD50 is "shaking down" I'd say you're pretty cheap.
BTW, I've maybe given RD300-400 pesos max in tips in 6 years here, not including the lunch and beer I've bought for military I've picked up on the highway.
If you think giving a cop who maybe makes US150 a month RD50 is "shaking down" I'd say you're pretty cheap.
BTW, I've maybe given RD300-400 pesos max in tips in 6 years here, not including the lunch and beer I've bought for military I've picked up on the highway.
You have just proved my point...Start with what is untrue, then move slowly to reveal as much truth as necessary to make a transaction work in your favor.
Tips, propinas, bribes, call them what you want. I call it part of a third world, corrupt system, and a normal occurance in Dominican Republic.
Not necessarily, but if we are talking about transformation, it would take a revolution.
It would be obvious the fight will not be about religion.
Do you think our leaders one day will have an epiphany and life will be different? No..
They continue to embezzle the millions of dollars of aids to the country.
After Danilo won the election he had $140+ in IMF loans waiting for him.
There is simply too much at stake to change their behavior.
They are not all that stupid. They have always used a very slight version of the US welfare.
for example, they let the massess get away without paying their share of electricity. And the biggest of all, the government posts given to the masses associated to their party. Isn't the government the #1 employer in DR? It is so, for a reason.
I spoke with a cousin when I visited the DR last year. She is unemployed: I asked her about her situation.. This was her answer: I am waiting for "Papa" to win. They will give me the same job I had when he was in power..
This is why the masses don't want to move their behinds.
No, I don't want a revolution. I am just stating what it would take.
With regard to third worldism et all all I know is I've lost a whole lot more money, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, due to corruption in the US than in the DR.
It won't even take that much in my opinion.
As soon as someone comes along here that isn't all about the money and makes normal Dominicans feel proud about working for their country just for the sake of it "el pendijismo" will be on it's way out. As it is now "el pendejismo/tigueraje" is the carte blanche for people to rob what they want from the people.
"El pendijismo/tigueraje" is so strong some are even proud of stealing from the people as if it were actually nothing wrong with it.
Third world = developing...per DICTIONARY
Look, if you are going to try to get into some sort of debate about anything, the least you can do is to show you know what the basic words in your title actually mean...wouldn't that sound reasonable to you?
After all, if you don't even know the meaning of the basic terms you are using, why should anyone believe you understand whatever it is you are trying to discuss?
Which is a long way to say, use a reputable dictionary if in doubt...they are freely accessible on the web.
THIRD WORLD DOES NOT MEAN 'backward', extremely 'under-developed', extremely 'poor', 'trashy', 'banana republic' of whichever it is that you want to attribute to the phrase...IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT!
Says whom?
Many authorities...Try webster's (freely available) for example:
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Definition of THIRD WORLD
1: a group of nations especially in Africa and Asia not aligned with either the Communist or the non-Communist blocs
2 : an aggregate of minority groups within a larger predominant culture
3: the aggregate of the underdeveloped nations of the world
Want another one? Here it goes, from the business dictionary:
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Third World Definition
Collective name for most of the nations of Africa, Asia, Latin America, and the Middle East, many of which share a colonial past and are variously termed as developing, less developed, or least developed countries. ... Coined in the 1950s by the French writer Alfred Sauvy (as 'le tiers monde'), it was originally used in the Cold War era (1945-89) to distinguish non-aligned nations from the Western capitalist economies aligned with the US (the First World) and the Eastern communist economies aligned with the USSR (the Second World).
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Are you satisfied now?
So, if you are looking for a pejorative term for countries like Haiti and most sub-Sahara Africa, you need something different from Third World....perhaps you could try 'backward' or 'banana republic'...Third World won't work for that...not if you trust reputable dictionaries.
Look, if you are going to try to get into some sort of debate about anything, the least you can do is to show you know what the basic words in your title actually mean...wouldn't that sound reasonable to you?
After all, if you don't even know the meaning of the basic terms you are using, why should anyone believe you understand whatever it is you are trying to discuss?
Which is a long way to say, use a reputable dictionary if in doubt...they are freely accessible on the web.
THIRD WORLD DOES NOT MEAN 'backward', extremely 'under-developed', extremely 'poor', 'trashy', 'banana republic' of whichever it is that you want to attribute to the phrase...IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT!
Says whom?
Many authorities...Try webster's (freely available) for example:
---------------------------------------
Definition of THIRD WORLD
1: a group of nations especially in Africa and Asia not aligned with either the Communist or the non-Communist blocs
2 : an aggregate of minority groups within a larger predominant culture
3: the aggregate of the underdeveloped nations of the world
Want another one? Here it goes, from the business dictionary:
-----------------------------------------
Third World Definition
Collective name for most of the nations of Africa, Asia, Latin America, and the Middle East, many of which share a colonial past and are variously termed as developing, less developed, or least developed countries. ... Coined in the 1950s by the French writer Alfred Sauvy (as 'le tiers monde'), it was originally used in the Cold War era (1945-89) to distinguish non-aligned nations from the Western capitalist economies aligned with the US (the First World) and the Eastern communist economies aligned with the USSR (the Second World).
----------------------------------------
Are you satisfied now?
So, if you are looking for a pejorative term for countries like Haiti and most sub-Sahara Africa, you need something different from Third World....perhaps you could try 'backward' or 'banana republic'...Third World won't work for that...not if you trust reputable dictionaries.
3: the aggregate of the underdeveloped nations of the world
One must also define the term underdeveloped. Both Haiti and Dominican Republic are underdeveloped.
The question is, then, which of the three definitions of Third World apply.
Dominican Republic fits more under definition 1. Dominican Republic is not aligned with non-Communist blocs...(i.e. NATO)
Arguably, Dominican Republic also fits under definition 3 as it is an underdeveloped country, but compared to its neighbor, Haiti it is more developed. It's other next door neighbor, Puerto Rico, is more developed.
To a Dominican I would assume DR is a developed country because their frame of reference is Haiti.
One must also define the term underdeveloped. Both Haiti and Dominican Republic are underdeveloped.
The question is, then, which of the three definitions of Third World apply.
Dominican Republic fits more under definition 1. Dominican Republic is not aligned with non-Communist blocs...(i.e. NATO)
Arguably, Dominican Republic also fits under definition 3 as it is an underdeveloped country, but compared to its neighbor, Haiti it is more developed. It's other next door neighbor, Puerto Rico, is more developed.
To a Dominican I would assume DR is a developed country because their frame of reference is Haiti.
It's not about being Dominican, but calling a spade a spade buddy. First you say the DR is third world because people break the law and then quickly change your tune when I point out apparently so do a lot of Americans. Then you say the DR is third world because policemen ask for pocket change and I point out that corruption in the States has practically put me out of business and then you state you could care less.
It is apparent you've formed an opinion not based on all of the facts.
It's what it is! Nowadays the term once used to denote what your posts indicate is no more applicable! Words that were once used to describe one thing, can and do change do adapt to new realities.
Just as we have developed economies and developed ones, we also appoint the ones carrying the developing to a new standard as "emerging" which has little to do with the fore mentioned terms...
Third word is a common accepted term used to describe or better said, label, countries which are not developed nor are they developing any time soon.
The DR is a developing nation that's also vying on the same terms for the label of an emerging economy in the region. Not for nothing is the largest in the Caribbean and Central America, even when some actors (wrongly so) want to place it at #2 behind the U.S. territory of Puerto Rico. Thing which would be equal to saying Hawaii's economy is not part of the U.S. economy.
What's lacking today in the DR is workable to obtain it short term in matters of development. What's harder is to turn a light and agricultural industry into a medium and heavy one, with the needed high tech sector to prop it as an emerging economy.
24/7, water and security are all political pawns that can be achieved if wanted, the rest is a huge burden on the private sector to follow up on.
The given definitions are from major dictionaries TODAY...not from dictionaries from years or decades ago...The phrase meaning has changed from strictly definition 1 (non aligned countries) to include also definition 3 (the aggregate/totality of not fully developed countries).
The phrase meaning HAS NOT changed to mean 'backward', 'trashy' or whatever it is that some people want to attribute to the phrase. At least not according to the major dictionaries of TODAY.
If you believe that the major dictionaries of today are out of date that is another story... I certainly would not agree.
The meaning of a word or phrase does not change just because some people start misusing it...that is for sure.
Well, this is exactly what I am saying, a revolutionary leader, right?. Because I don't think we have politicians with those qualities. That's why I also alluded to a dictatorship.
I don't think "pendejismo" is the right word. I think more of the masses being complaisant with their comfort levels. It takes balls to pull an arm robbery or a home invasion. "Tigueres" or thugs, yes.
Yes, the lowest of the lowest scums of the earth feel it is right and quite frankly justified when they rob their fellow citizens. They also find it to be the easiest way out.
History has it that when CC wanted to explore other parts of the worlds. The prisons were emptied and these prisoners where accommodated in “La Nina”, “La Pinta” and “La Santa maria” ships.
So CC came to America with those thugs… and to make this story short, we inherited some of those traits. That is the only rational I can attribute to the country being ransacked by a bunch of thugs.
The many unjustified and stupid murders committed and also the greed of our leaders. This is something that has to be inherited. But that is just my opinion. I also think that something must be triggered for these genes to hit the thugs’ threshold. DR was not like that before.
So “los Conquistadores” laid this plague on our ancestors.
So, I am blaming CC for this.. :knockedou
This is why I said, that it would take a revolution (pacific or not) to get us out this.
Chip,
Dominican Republic is both a third world country and an underdeveloped country based upon the definition provided by a different poster. And, I included an example by which to measure third world over first world. When you are honest enough with yourself to understand how many first world systems and mores must be in place for a government official, military official, or police officer to never consider soliciting bribes under fear of punishment, then you will understand that the pillars that make first world countries what they are do not exist in Dominican Republic.
If you are what I understand you to be, an engineer, then you most certainly understand systems and how they build upon each other. A country can certainly build bridges with dirt roads leading to them because half the construction money for the highway lined the pockets of government officials.
You are comparing Dominican Republic to the U.S. That comparison is not logical.
Furthermore, you changed your position from righteous indignation about bribes to being a good old boy who participates in them. That's called lying, which clearly is a human trait not limited to specific countries or classes of people, and which speaks to issues of character.
Seems like the political will is kind of coming into line:
[h=3]Vincho to investigate corruption in government[/h]Lawyer Marino Vinicio (Vincho) Castillo is to direct the new General Department of Ethics and Governmental Integrity (DIGEIG). Decree 486-12 creates the new department. Castillo was granted the authority to investigate and persecute acts of corruption by government officials. The DIGEIG replaces the National Commission of Ethics and Struggle Against Corruption, which was also headed by Castillo. Castillo maintains his role as Presidential advisor on drug related issues.