DR developing country or still 3rd world?

[Dominicaus]

3: the aggregate of the underdeveloped nations of the world

One must also define the term underdeveloped. Both Haiti and Dominican Republic are underdeveloped.

The question is, then, which of the three definitions of Third World apply.

Dominican Republic fits more under definition 1. Dominican Republic is not aligned with non-Communist blocs...(i.e. NATO)

Arguably, Dominican Republic also fits under definition 3 as it is an underdeveloped country, but compared to its neighbor, Haiti it is more developed. It's other next door neighbor, Puerto Rico, is more developed.
To a Dominican I would assume DR is a developed country because their frame of reference is Haiti.

Just as 'developed' countries are not all equally developed, developing (under-developed/less-developed) countries are not all at the same stage of development...

There are various ways of categorising countries other than just developing/developed...for example the world bank categorises countries by income groups as follows:

"Economies are divided according to 2011 GNI per capita, calculated using the World Bank Atlas method. The groups are: low income, $1,025 or less; lower middle income, $1,026 - $4,035; upper middle income, $4,036 - $12,475; and high income, $12,476 or more.".

FWIW, per WB the DR is in the upper middle income group.

By per-capita GDP (PPP method) it is ranked about 87 (from the top) out of 183 countries, ahead of several Eastern European countries (Ukraine, Albania and others)...The DR's per capita GDP is about 8 times (800%) that of Haiti.

 

[belgiank]

Do some of you really think a revolution would solve all the problems here? Look at what happened in almost all of the Middle East. They revolted, changed governments, and replaced the old crooks and nuts, with new crooks and nuts.

What the DR really needs is a strong leader, with the right people behind him. And start to change from the bottom up...

- giving police-officers, firemen, etc... a decent living wage..., and punish them if they are corrupt
- giving teachers a decent living wage... so they are motivated...
- make everybody pay for the electricity they use...
- make sure the electricity companies do not screw people...
- make everybody pay taxes, if above a certain wage, and check on those...
- etc...

Unfortunately, this will take years, decades.... but I do believe there is hope...

BelgianK

 

[Chip]

Well, this is exactly what I am saying, a revolutionary leader, right?. Because I don't think we have politicians with those qualities. That's why I also alluded to a dictatorship.

I don't think "pendejismo" is the right word. I think more of the masses being complaisant with their comfort levels. It takes balls to pull an arm robbery or a home invasion. "Tigueres" or thugs, yes.

Yes, the lowest of the lowest scums of the earth feel it is right and quite frankly justified when they rob their fellow citizens. They also find it to be the easiest way out.

History has it that when CC wanted to explore other parts of the worlds. The prisons were emptied and these prisoners where accommodated in “La Nina”, “La Pinta” and “La Santa maria” ships.

So CC came to America with those thugs… and to make this story short, we inherited some of those traits. That is the only rational I can attribute to the country being ransacked by a bunch of thugs.

The many unjustified and stupid murders committed and also the greed of our leaders. This is something that has to be inherited. But that is just my opinion. I also think that something must be triggered for these genes to hit the thugs’ threshold. DR was not like that before.

So “los Conquistadores” laid this plague on our ancestors.

So, I am blaming CC for this.. :knockedou

This is why I said, that it would take a revolution (pacific or not) to get us out this.

You're not following me about my pendejismo/tigueraje concept as it influences Dominican culture.

Pendejismo is not positive to say the least and is considered weak of course. Tigueraje has positive and negative connotations. The most positive connotation it seems to be a compliment when someone is crafty/smart related to business transactions.

These two terms are very popular and part of the culture and from my point of view the fear of being called a pendejo and the desire to be considered a tiguere for business dealings basically enables people to steal when they get into politics with little remorse. In fact, I propose the cultural impetus is so strong it can make it difficult for people to see what they are doing is stealing and in the worst case unfortunately many even seem to be proud about it.

By the way, every culture has these similar type of influences. For example, in the States recreational drug use would be a similar comparison. It is so widespread, even among well respected people including professionals, that for millions it has lost a lot of it's negative associations and thus people ignore that tens of thousands of people are killed and many more lives are destroyed in getting drugs to the market and from usage.

 

[Marlon Rojas]

The debt is now lurking just under the $16 trillion mark -- a number huge enough to be almost incomprehensible to the layperson. One way to visualize its magnitude: If you were to spend a dollar every second, it would take you 32,000 years to spend $1 trillion, or a mere one-16th of the debt.

Read more: Federal debt nears $16 trillion, with no easy way to pay it down | Fox News These are the benefits for been numero uno. I'd rather stay as a 3rd world country.

 

[Chip]

According to an American missionary who has lived in Haiti for 50 years, Haiti is 3rd world and the DR is 2nd world.

 

[PICHARDO]

Each step is important towards the end result:

Las carretas ya no podr?n ser tiradas por los caballos - listindiario.com

Carts can no longer be pulled by horses

Santo Domingo
The Animal Protection Act and responsible ownership, which prohibits the use of animals for hauling carts or other vehicles used in the sale of food products, is certainly a great achievement of Dominican society, offering shelter to the animal victims living human cruelty, but traders and social sectors dispute that the piece does not provide solutions for more than 1,500 families who depend on road horses.


The president of the Association of Agricultural Products Sellers New Market (The Seahorses), Gabriel Pimentel, said that in 2007 was created a project organization, training and capitalization of the members of the association to replace the carts by trucks.


The project was developed with the assistance of Frank An?bal Fern?ndez, current Project Development Manager of the City of Santo Domingo Norte, and integrated the National Council for Promotion and Support of Small and Medium Enterprises (Promipyme), Taiwan Mission and Ministry Interior and Police and the Directorate General of Land Transport, the National District City Council and the Ministry of Public Health.


Pimentel said the initiative sought to finance the trucks through Promipyme in a payment period of four years with daily quotas of RD $ 200, making a total of RD $ 192,000 per vehicle, which would be collected by the council, which also serve guarantor.


The project was at the stage of union organization, with the application for certification of the association to the Ministry of Industry and Commerce in June 2007, and training, in a six-month journey that included courses on administrative management, human relations, internal controls and customer service coordination and Mission Promipyme Taiwan. However, the financing of vehicles was not materialized because Fernandez explained, it was determined that the 300 carts did not belong to the sellers, but were concentrated in the hands of a few entrepreneurs who rent per day.



Director of Communications and Public Relations National District City Council, Jos? Miguel Carrion, said the agency does not have the responsibility to intervene in the financing of trucks because it is common knowledge that the use of horses for charging is an inadequate practice.



He cited that during the administration of mayor Johnny Ventura the City Hall served as guarantor in the purchase of buses that were delivered to the National Federation of Transport The New Option (Fenatrano), assuming a debt of nearly RD $ 1.000 million that wasn't paid, and said the council is not willing to take that risk again.



Controversy


Carrion said that before the passage of the Animal Protection Act and the council responsible ownership tried to eliminate the use of horses to load, but could not continue because it did not have a legal instrument that would enable it to take action, but sessions were held monitoring and mistreated horses seized by the Department of Defense and Use of Public Space.



Some haulers or "horsies", as they call each other, agree that that entity seizes horses, carts and merchandise, and even denounced violent attitudes of staff towards the merchants resistance to dispossession of the food for sale.



"Imagine that one day you get a loan to stock and then to have seized the cart. You lose the merchandise and must repay the loan, "said the merchant Efra?n Jim?nez, given the fact that the sellers asking daily informal credit of between $ 5,000 and RD $ 15,000, at a rate of up to 5%, and some pay RD $ 400 per rental of horse and carriage.



The city official said the seized animals are surrendered to animal shelters ,and organizations reported that many of the horses used to sell agricultural products have been stolen from farms and private properties.



However, Pimentel argues that the ownership certificates from haulers is required from members by the association and had bought from third hand the same horses that were seized.


"We recognize that in the street many have stolen horses, but they are not members of the association," said the leader.


Father Rogelio Cruz, who has been supporting the claims of the merchants, objected to the abuse of any kind to an animal, but stressed that "the owners of the horses made an investment to buy the animal and fair living from that work, so it is not appropriate to issue a prohibitory law but find a viable solution that involves ".



The president of the Dominican Committee of Human Rights, Virgilio Almanzar considered that legislation should take into account the needs of traders and contemplate an alternative that allows them to continue their sales without horses.



He said the council has a responsibility to negotiate a solution for sellers before banning the use of horses, though he said he does not agree with the practice that threatens animals.



RECOGNIZE SELLERS ABUSE



Jose Miguel Carrion noted that the movement of horse carts not only an issue of sensitivity, receiving abuse animals, but dangerous in traffic.
He also stressed that the National District City Council has been involved in the creation of the tourist route of Santo Domingo and said that when it begins to operate the horses may not move into the village.



This situation is also presented in Santiago de los Caballeros and other cities, before the claim of the population and animal protection institutions for the poor state in which are located the horses and the excessive burden imposed on them.



Traders say they are aware that the practice is not adequate and some expressed their desire to leave, but do not have the resources to purchase a vehicle, as in all cases without access to banking.

 

[donP]

R and R

According to an American missionary who has lived in Haiti for 50 years, Haiti is 3rd world and the DR is 2nd world.

All I know is, that all of my Haitian workers can/could read and write, whereas a good number of my Dominican workers could not and had to sign XXXX.
And no, I have never been to Haiti.


donP

 

[PICHARDO]

All I know is, that all of my Haitian workers can/could read and write, whereas a good number of my Dominican workers could not and had to sign XXXX.
And no, I have never been to Haiti.


donP

 

[Expat13]

According to an American missionary who has lived in Haiti for 50 years, Haiti is 3rd world and the DR is 2nd world.

IMO, based soley on a development scale I would give -Haiti a 4th world- DR 3 world and Argentina and Mexico 2nd world status. Canada 1st world and USA 1st world but on notice!

 

[PICHARDO]

IMO, based soley on a development scale I would give -Haiti a 4th world- DR 3 world and Argentina and Mexico 2nd world status. Canada 1st world and USA 1st world but on notice!

Ok Guru! If you say is a Banana, then a Banana it is! (just don't chomp on it too soft, you know, Banana soft and all...)

 

[Lucifer]

According to an American missionary who has lived in Haiti for 50 years, Haiti is 3rd world and the DR is 2nd world.

What?! Do you, or the "American missionary", know where the label '2nd world' come from?

 

[donP]

Don Potemkin's Mirror Trick

Exactly, PICHARDO.
This is what you always show us:
The false mirror pictures...but we can see the real thing.... :laugh:


donP

 

[Expat13]

Ok Guru! If you say is a Banana, then a Banana it is! (just don't chomp on it too soft, you know, Banana soft and all...)

Do you prefer I cut and paste fancy fotos and nonesense? But you got that covered dont you?
Question "Mall Foto Guru" If a North American moved to Santo Domingo, Buenos Aries, or Mexico City which do you think would be the hardest to adjust (culture shock)?

 

[nas]

Do some of you really think a revolution would solve all the problems here? Look at what happened in almost all of the Middle East. They revolted, changed governments, and replaced the old crooks and nuts, with new crooks and nuts.

What the DR really needs is a strong leader, with the right people behind him. And start to change from the bottom up...

- giving police-officers, firemen, etc... a decent living wage..., and punish them if they are corrupt
- giving teachers a decent living wage... so they are motivated...
- make everybody pay for the electricity they use...
- make sure the electricity companies do not screw people...
- make everybody pay taxes, if above a certain wage, and check on those...
- etc...

Unfortunately, this will take years, decades.... but I do believe there is hope...

BelgianK

Precisely, the DR really needs a strong leader with the masses behind it.
It is not replace the president (Danilo for Hipolito, per say).

This leader must repudiate and fight the institution (peacefully or forcefully), together with the people.

I am not envisioning a Fidel Castro or a Chavez. I am thinking more in turns of people, such as the late, Corporan Delos Santos. This guy always had the back of the poor. At least this is my perception through his documentary and I also lived it while grown up. Of course, he was a very peaceful man.

I think I read there are 150+ active Generals in the country. Wayyyyyy too many! These people will not relinquish power peacefully, since they are the real authority of the country.

Pretending to clean up corruption the same way, swapping presidents, it’s proven to be a failure.
The only way to stop abusers and bullies is to confront them and to give them a taste of their own medicine.

It would take an eternity to wait for a natural born leader to free the DR, not from the Haitians or French, but from our current evil leaders. The reason nothing has worked and things goes from bad to worst is because we are just swapping presidents. We are at a critical point, where we have to try another form of government, at least for a while. What type? I don’t know.

That is the only solution I see.

As far as revolution is concerned, Latin American countries cannot be compared with countries in the Middle East. They are fighting oppression, but religion drives their motives.

Brothers and sisters, please join me in this crusade to free the DR from those oppressing forces… I am just kidding ..

Dude, we have had the same problem for decades. It is not getting any better.

He dicho, caso cerrado!

 

[Naked_Snake]

All I know is, that all of my Haitian workers can/could read and write, whereas a good number of my Dominican workers could not and had to sign XXXX.
And no, I have never been to Haiti.


donP

Cool story, bro. Care to tell us about it again?

 

[CaptnGlenn]

If you think giving a cop who maybe makes US150 a month RD50 is "shaking down" I'd say you're pretty cheap.

I'd say that if you call the demand (or request???) for money by an official in a position of power, (and/or wearing a gun), is anything OTHER THAN a "shake down"... whatever the amount; you are part of the problem, not the solution.

I certainly realize it's a way of life; but to regard it as OK, or acceptable, is to perpetuate the culture of corruption.

 

[Chip]

I'd say that if you call the demand (or request???) for money by an official in a position of power, (and/or wearing a gun), is anything OTHER THAN a "shake down"... whatever the amount; you are part of the problem, not the solution.

I certainly realize it's a way of life; but to regard it as OK, or acceptable, is to perpetuate the culture of corruption.

No police has ever demanded money from me, ever. Not only that they are always respectful and I have refused to give tips if I had no small change. I generally thank them for their work and then send me on my way with a salute most times.

Some of you guys could learn a little about the culture here and how far showing a little respect and couth can take you.

 

[Expat13]

No police has ever demanded money from me, ever. Not only that they are always respectful and I have refused to give tips if I had no small change. I generally thank them for their work and then send me on my way with a salute most times.

Some of you guys could learn a little about the culture here and how far showing a little respect and couth can take you.

Chip I think most people show respect to police when pulled over or stopped, thats engrained in the first world culture. The issue here is being stopped or pulled over primarily to collect money-this i guess in your case deserves respect and a salute. Your just playing the game as well! I dont really care or bothered by the roadstops, its the high level crime they partake or ignore and overall lack of justice "serve and protect" that is the issue. Please dont say its because they make $150/mth as I agree thats nuts and also part of the problem. Their lack of pay isnt our fault, just another example of warped priorities in the DR. Police and teachers are underpaid which only shows the lack of importance in the overall scheme.

 

[Chip]

Police and teachers are underpaid which only shows the lack of importance in the overall scheme.

The system here is corrupt thanks to Balaguer. People want change but feel powerless. Why do you think so many leave?

 

[keepcoming]

While I question the Balaguer issue ( I think this is goes back way beyond that ) I agree that people for the most want change but have come accustom to thinking that they have no say so and just deal with it. I mean we are not talking anything new here. Kind of like live and let live.