Dr vs mexico

PlantaFULL

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Lately I get a feeling that the DR is right on track to becoming one of the most expensive "3rd world" countries. Cheap housing? New apartments in Santo Domingo (5+ stories, 3bed, elevator, mid-class not Piantini luxury) are running at prices that easily compare to a suburb 3bed house in Florida (Tampa area for instance). Vehicles, especially those built in Mexico like VW will cost you between 2x and 3x here. From a pure cost-comparison I doubt the DR is a wise choice (it used to be many years ago).

Note: I love it here and I totally agree with the apple/orange comparisons. I just want to point out that potential new expats should not make their decisions based the myth of a cheap DR.
 

Safado

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NALs said:
1. The DR does not has a homogenous climate or topography. You can find pretty much any climate or topography you want in the DR, with extreme ease and proximity to the major cities. Granted, pretty much anything north and east of the Central Mountain range is hot and humid and anything west is hotter and arid. However, in the Cordillera Central of the DR there are places where you can swear you are somewhere in Vermont or the Perinnies. Make a visit to a valley called "La Nevera", I think the names says it all.

2. Comparing the entire DR to either central Mexico, Central Colombian, the Caracas area of Venezuela, the Sul State of Brazil, or the Rio de Plata region of Uruguay and northern Argentina in an economical sense is like comparing New York City or London to Alexandria, Virginia or Stratford-upon-Avon!

In other words, apples to oranges. Those places are the most industrial, wealthiest, and most economically active regions of all of Latin America. Mexico City is the world's 30th largest economy on it's own and Mexico is among the few countries with an economy worth in the US$1 Trillion mark making it one of the top 10 biggest and most important economies worldwide. With the case of Sao Paulo, which is the epicenter of the modern Brazilian economy and especially, the Sul state, it's economy is valued at $500 billion!!!! With a population of lets say 20 million, that amounts to roughly US$25,000 per person. That's quite high, although the disparity in income explains for why there are poor people in Sao Paulo and extremely rich people. The issue in those regions of Latin America has more to do with the distribution of income more than any lack of anything, because those regions don't lack money, industry, whatever its there!

The situation with the DR is utterly different, given that the country is just recently beginning to accumulate some wealth on a national level and it's certainly a peripheral nation on a regional and global scale.

Please make sure that when comparing, you do take into account the realities of each region vs. the DR. Samething is true with various African countries or countries anywhere.

Also, when comparing DR to African countries, please mention the country you are referring to in Africa. Africa is a HUGE place and no two places are alike. There are countries in Africa with a very vibrant upper middle income economy and other places that are virtual hell holes. There are also countries with a great concentration of wealth around certain metropolises and other places where money is obviously needed. In short, comparing any country to "Africa" is exploiting the stereotypes that continent has accrued in Europe and the Americas vs. the reality of that place. Africa is a continent with many countries, each country being radically different from the next. So please, refer to the country you are comparing the DR to in Africa.

Compared to Botswana, yes DR is backward. Compared to Sierra Leone, oh please! Compared to South Africa, well that depends where in South Africa because that country ranges from first world to fourth world depending where you are referring.

That's it, everything else is on the mark with personal biases based on personal preferences.

Good thread! ;)
-NALs



Nals,

Calm down! Keep in mind that I said "some countries in Africa" and I did NOT generalize Africa as a whole. Actually I was referring to North Africa i.e. Morocco, Algeria, Tunis(yes, this is still Africa).


Concerning the GDP and income of Dominicans vs. the rest of latin America or whatever, I never said that any of these countries were the same or should be, and I'm not slamming the DR as I love it there. It's A LOT safer than living in Sao Paulo for example!

Nonetheless, I agree with that you're saying here!
 

Safado

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Lesley D said:
I find your post very interesting and I ask that you expand on two points if you don't mind please:

1/ Quote: "I'll say that the Dr is one of the most LEAST developed of the places that I've been. In fact most African nations that I've been to are more developed than this Caribbean nation".

-What is the basis for your statement? I am just curious because I think your observation is quite insightful.

2/ Your socio-linguistic analysis is quite accurate too and how would you compare Spanish spoken in the DR to Spanish spoken in the rest of the Caribbean basin (this includes parts of Panama, coastal Colombia and coastal Venezuela) and the Spanish speaking-world? As well, do people take the spoken language into consideration when considering living in Spanish speaking country? I find that interesting.


-LDG.

As I've mentioned before, I was really talking about N.Africa and I should have specified this.

I love the DR, but it isn't as developed as some other places...and I love it for what it is.


To be honest, I'm not an expert on Spanish accents, but I can notice the difference in the way Spanish is spoken in the DR vs. EL Salvador, Colombia, and Spain. Even within the DR itself there are regional accents despite being a small country.

I can tell you that the accents of Northern Spain are the easiest to understand for myself(I was there in December).

Dominican Spanish to me,is like hearing someone speak Jamaican English as opposed to American English.

Anyway, I'm not trying to Hijack this thread. I'm sure that Mexico rules!
 

Marianopolita

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Dec 26, 2003
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Thanks Safado-

You are not hijacking the thread but rather clarifying your point and I know why you had to. No problem, I did not get the wrong idea regarding Africa. Some people get paranoid when the DR is mentioned in the same realm as African countries. IMO it really does not matter if what you say is true and you clarified that.

If you want to know why I asked about the language element just check some of my posts or visit the Spanish forum that should tell you why I get enthusiastic about proper linguistic observations made from time to time on this board. I was looking forward to a more in depth answer since you touched on an important aspect of language. However, I give you credit though some people would not have had such a keen ear even after being around Spanish speakers for years.

I will tell you that regional accents exist in all countries and the geographical size has nothing to do with it. It's a metalinguistic and socio-linguistic phenomenon and you are right Spanish spoken in the DR vs. xxx country is very different but comparable to Cuba, PR and some areas of the Caribbean basin I mentioned.

I offer you a post of mine if you are interested. Dom Spanish. BTW- you are new here and I already enjoy reading your posts.


Chao

-LDG.
 
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NALs

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Safado said:
Nals,

Calm down! Keep in mind that I said "some countries in Africa" and I did NOT generalize Africa as a whole. Actually I was referring to North Africa i.e. Morocco, Algeria, Tunis(yes, this is still Africa).


Concerning the GDP and income of Dominicans vs. the rest of latin America or whatever, I never said that any of these countries were the same or should be, and I'm not slamming the DR as I love it there. It's A LOT safer than living in Sao Paulo for example!

Nonetheless, I agree with that you're saying here!
I am calm. Always notice what smily face I put in my posts, because sometimes (and I am guilty of this as well) it's hard to tell the mood or attitude a person has taken while reading their post.

Also, while the Africa part was more or less in response to your comparison, my post was more geared towards everyone since I have noticed a few incorrect misconceptions of the DR, such as assuming the DR has only one climate when in fact, every type of climate is available if anyone searches well.

However, I am calm and thanks for clarifying what part of Africa you were referring to. Everytime people compare a country to a continent, it leaves me wondering where in that continent they are actually making their comparisons from since continents have plenty of variety of peoples, cultures, development, etc.

Not to mention that countries are countries and continents are continents, to compare a country to a continent is just incorrect in most instances. Some people actually think Asia is a country.... since when?

Well, let's not hijack this thread.

-NALs ;)
 

Safado

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PlantaFULL said:
Lately I get a feeling that the DR is right on track to becoming one of the most expensive "3rd world" countries. Cheap housing? New apartments in Santo Domingo (5+ stories, 3bed, elevator, mid-class not Piantini luxury) are running at prices that easily compare to a suburb 3bed house in Florida (Tampa area for instance). Vehicles, especially those built in Mexico like VW will cost you between 2x and 3x here. From a pure cost-comparison I doubt the DR is a wise choice (it used to be many years ago).

Note: I love it here and I totally agree with the apple/orange comparisons. I just want to point out that potential new expats should not make their decisions based the myth of a cheap DR.


I think that I kinda gave the impression that the DR is cheap in my earlier postings.

I will agree that the DR isn't the cheapest place I've ever been! But from what I've seen(and I don't spend much time in Santo Domingo proper) property prices are much cheaper than here in my native Maryland, where a row home in the ghetto is now gonna cost more than 300,000! For that much I can get a nice home in Santiago or some place...at least in a nice neighborhood.

but in general the DR is NOT the cheapest place by 3rd world standards.
 

easygoin

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Jan 2, 2005
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You lookin in the wrong place for that money

Safado said:
I think that I kinda gave the impression that the DR is cheap in my earlier postings.

I will agree that the DR isn't the cheapest place I've ever been! But from what I've seen(and I don't spend much time in Santo Domingo proper) property prices are much cheaper than here in my native Maryland, where a row home in the ghetto is now gonna cost more than 300,000! For that much I can get a nice home in Santiago or some place...at least in a nice neighborhood.

but in general the DR is NOT the cheapest place by 3rd world standards.

FOR 300,000 ... I'll put you in the 1800 square-foot home on a golf course subdivision 2 miles from the ocean in sunny Florida BRAND NEW.... if you have any friends let me know.
 

Santiagohombre1

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The food and the cars ar enot cheaper. Now the homes, I could shell out 40-50 grand and have a nice home in an upper class neighborhood in dr. The place I am in in santiago is liek 100-300 a month gives you a middle class home. I never heard of one crime in my dr neighborhood where poeple shell out 100-300 a month to be in the peaceful quiet area. In the states, the family apartment costs 700 a month to live in the hood with gunshots and drugs and trash all over the streets.

Now africa, it is a fourth world continent. DR is borderline 2nd and third world. Haiti is third world. Africa has countries in it that are fourth world. Third world is just poverty everywhere. Fourth world is dying off, literally becoming extinct!! Second world has disparities and has some rich and most poor. DR has cell phones and phone lines and cars and all sorts of luxuries that might not look like much from the states. But, looking from a world perspective dr is in the middle. Go into african countries, iraq, russia, brazil, parts of mexico, you will see the same poorness dr has. It is normal on a worldly scale. Now, i laughed at this post because in mexico, I went right into the poverty and it was as bad as anywhere in dr. It had no signs of running water or anything.
 

PlantaFULL

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Safado said:
I will agree that the DR isn't the cheapest place I've ever been! But from what I've seen(and I don't spend much time in Santo Domingo proper) property prices are much cheaper than here in my native Maryland, where a row home in the ghetto is now gonna cost more than 300,000! For that much I can get a nice home in Santiago or some place...at least in a nice neighborhood.

You are correct, comparisons like these always depend on personal experiences and what one considers to be "cheap". In much of FL housing is still a avail for around 200k, an amount that is very much in line with what apartments in Santo Domingo cost nowadays. Santiago real estate is generally 20+ % cheaper then the capital.

Since you mentioned that you have been in Brasil as well, I don't have to tell you that in places like Fortaleza and Natal you get damn close to a "beira mar" 1 per floor penthouse with 200k, something that on the malecon here does cost 4x the amount.

So compared to the USA and much of Europe the DR maybe cheap, when comparing it to other countries with similar social, life-style, infra-structure factors the DR however is way expensive if you ask me. Comparing it to other carribean islands on the other hand... no way.
 

Santiagohombre1

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I mean in dr, the rich have lots and lots of money. That is the only reason prices are jacked up in certain areas. It displays their power inthe country.
 

PlantaFULL

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Santiagohombre1 said:
Now africa, it is a fourth world continent. DR is borderline 2nd and third world. Haiti is third world. Africa has countries in it that are fourth world. Third world is just poverty everywhere. Fourth world is dying off, literally becoming extinct!! Second world has disparities and has some rich and most poor. DR has cell phones and phone lines and cars and all sorts of luxuries that might not look like much from the states. But, looking from a world perspective dr is in the middle.

Unless the definitions have changed, 2nd world used to equal communist Sovient Union and since its collapse no country is refered to as 2nd world. There is only 1st and 3rd left and the term 4th world has been added in recent years to distinguish the "hell holes".

I maybe wrong on this but I'm willing to learn :)
 

Santiagohombre1

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I mean, on a worldly scae there is a rich, middle, and lower class. ex. us is rich

dr is middle or lower middle

haiti is poor

Location: Caribbean, eastern two-thirds of the island of Hispaniola, between the Caribbean Sea and the North Atlantic Ocean, east of Haiti
Population: 8,833,634 (July 2004 est.)
Capital: Santo Domingo
GDP per capita: purchasing power parity - $6,000 (2004 est.)

Location: South-eastern Africa, bordering the Mozambique Channel, between South Africa and Tanzania
Population: 18,811,731
note: estimates for this country explicitly take into account the effects of excess mortality due to AIDS; this can result in lower life expectancy, higher infant mortality and death rates, lower population and growth rates, and changes in the distribution of population by age and sex than would otherwise be expected; the 1997 Mozambican census reported a population of 16,099,246 (July 2004 est.)
Capital: Maputo
GDP per capita: purchasing power parity - $1,200 (2004 est.)




Mozambique Facts

Summary
Location: Eastern Europe, bordering the Black Sea, between Poland, Romania, and Moldova in the west and Russia in the east
Population: 47,732,079 (July 2004 est.)
Capital: Kiev (Kyyiv)
GDP per capita: purchasing power parity - $5,400 (2004 est.)
 

Santiagohombre1

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Location: Middle America, bordering the Caribbean Sea and the Gulf of Mexico, between Belize and the US and bordering the North Pacific Ocean, between Guatemala and the US
Population: 104,959,594 (July 2004 est.)
Capital: Mexico (Distrito Federal)
GDP per capita: purchasing power parity - $9,000 (2004 est.)

Countries Receiving the most Money from Remittances by Migrants
Rank Country Total Remittances (US dollars)
1 India $10bn
2 Mexico $9.9bn
3 Philippines $6.4bn
4 Morocco $3.3bn
5 Egypt $2.9bn
6 Turkey $2.8bn
7 Lebanon $2.3bn
8 Bangladesh $2.1bn
9 Jordan $2bn
10 Dominican Republic $2bn


Highest Divorce Rates in the World
Rank Country Divorces per 1,000 inhabitants per year
1 Maldives 10.97
2 Belarus 4.63
3 United States 4.34
4 Cuba 3.72
5 Estonia 3.65
6 Panama 3.61
6 Puerto Rico 3.61
8 Ukraine 3.56
9 Russia 3.42
10 Antigua and Barbuda 3.40

Poorest Countries in the World
Rank Country GDP - per capita
1 East Timor $ 500
2 Somalia $ 500
3 Sierra Leone $ 500
4 Malawi $ 600
5 Tanzania $ 600
6 Burundi $ 600
7 Congo, Republic of the $ 700
8 Congo, Democratic Republic of the $ 700
9 Comoros $ 700
10 Eritrea $ 700
11 Ethiopia $ 700
12 Afghanistan $ 700
13 Niger $ 800
14 Yemen $ 800
15 Madagascar $ 800
16 Guinea-Bissau $ 800
17 Zambia $ 800
18 Kiribati $ 800
19 Nigeria $ 900
20 Mali $ 900
 

Santiagohombre1

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Jun 1, 2006
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Countries with the Highest Unemployment Rates in the World
Rank Country Unemployment rate(%)
1 Liberia 85.00
2 Kiribati 70.00
3 Zimbabwe 70.00
4 Zambia 50.00
5 East Timor 50.00
6 Senegal 48.00
7 Nepal 47.00
8 Lesotho 45.00
9 Botswana 40.00
10 Kenya 40.00
11 Bangladesh 40.00
12 Bosnia and Herzegovina 40.00
13 Tajikistan 40.00
14 Macedonia 36.70
15 Namibia 35.00
16 Yemen 35.00
17 Serbia and Montenegro 34.50
18 Swaziland 34.00
19 South Africa 31.00
20 Marshall Islands 30.90

Developing Countries.

Afghanistan

Algeria

Angola

Antigua and Barbuda

Argentina

Aruba

The Bahamas

Bahrain

Bangladesh

Barbados

Belize

Benin

Bhutan

Bolivia

Botswana

Brazil

Burkina Faso

Burma

Burundi

Cambodia

Cameroon

Cape Verde

Central African Republic

Chad

Chile

China

Colombia

Comoros

Democratic Republic of the Congo

Republic of the Congo

Costa Rica

Cote d'Ivoire

Cyprus

Djibouti

Dominica

Dominican Republic

Ecuador

Egypt

El Salvador

Equatorial Guinea

Ethiopia

Fiji

Gabon

The Gambia

Ghana

Grenada

Guatemala

Guinea

Guinea-Bissau

Guyana

Haiti

Honduras

India

Indonesia

Iran

Iraq

Jamaica

Jordan

Kenya

Kiribati

Kuwait

Laos

Lebanon

Lesotho

Liberia

Libya

Madagascar

Malawi

Malaysia

Maldives

Mali

Malta

Marshall Islands

Mauritania

Mauritius

Mexico

Federated States of Micronesia

Morocco

Mozambique

Namibia

Nepal

Netherlands Antilles

Nicaragua

Niger

Nigeria

Oman

Pakistan

Panama

Papua New Guinea

Paraguay

Philippines

Qatar

Rwanda

Saint Kitts and Nevis

Saint Lucia

Saint Vincent and the Grenadines

Samoa

Sao Tome and Principe

Saudi Arabi

Senegal

Seychelles

Sierra Leone

Solomon Islands

Somalia

South Africa

Sri Lanka

Sudan

Suriname

Swaziland

Syria

Tanzania

Thailand

Togo

Trinidad and Tobago

Tunisia

Turkey

UAE

Uganda

Uruguay

Vanuatu

Venezuela

Vietnam

Yemen

Zambia

Zimbabwe
 

NALs

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Santiagohombre1 said:
DR is borderline 2nd and third world.
I have seen many people mention 2nd world as an option...

The 2nd world was the communist nations! There not many of those left!

The world is divided like this:

1st world: Wealthy nations which control the world. These nations were imperial powers, used to or still have colonies, and the entire global economy benefits them the greatest.

2nd world: Any country with a communist/socialist system.

3rd world: A country that was either a former colony and still functions as a colony regarding its relation to the first world. A country that still gains most of its wealth by exploiting and exporting raw materials.

4th world: These countries are completely outside the global economic system. More often than not, this is used to categorize what are known as "savages" or tribal groups which live in such primitive conditions they would have been the most fashionable of peoples during the times of the caveman!

(Btw: I've seen the Geico Insurance commercial, so if there are any cavemen out there, I am sorry for being offensive! LOL! :cheeky: )

Here is my question, how can the DR be part of the 2nd world? Is there a communist take over I am not aware of?

-NALs
 

Santiagohombre1

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Some of the most dangerous cities in the world

Baghdad

Bangui

Abidjan

Pointe Noire

Luanda

Brazzaville

Jerusalem

Cities with the Worst Standard of Living
Rank City Country
1 Brazzaville Congo, Republic of The
2 Bangui Central African Republic
3 Baghdad Iraq
4 Pointe Noire Congo, Republic of The
5 Khartoum Sudan
6 Ouagadougou Burkina Faso

Most Expensive Countries to Live in
Rank Country
1 Japan
2 South Korea
3 Russia
4 Taiwan
5 Norway
6 Hong Kong
7 Switzerland
8 Denmark
9 Argentina
10 China
11 Finland
12 Cote d'Ivoire
13 United States
14 Sweden
15 Venezuela
16 United Kingdom
17 Singapore
18 Oman
19 Jordan
20 Kuwait


those were just some information I found if anyone was curious.
 

NALs

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PlantaFULL said:
Santiago real estate is generally 20+ % cheaper then the capital.
This could change with the completion and inaguration of the large park which will replace the old Cibao Airport in Santiago.

Inland cities that lack water (lake or sea) usually see a boom when parks and such are created, especially if the park has a sort of French inspiration.

Parks with French inspirations are those like the Mirador Sur and Mirador Norte in SDQ, Chapultepec in Mexico City, Central Park in New York City, etc. Parks with man made lakes for people to row boats on, walking trails in wooded areas, sculptures and fountains, etc.

I won't be surprised if Santiago starts to see a boom in highrise luxury apartment buildings in the vicinity of the park once it's completed. Along with that, property values should increase, especially in the more desirable parts of the city.

-NALs
 

PlantaFULL

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NALs said:
4th world: These countries are completely outside the global economic system. More often than not, this is used to categorize what are known as "savages" or tribal groups which live in such primitive conditions they would have been the most fashionable of peoples during the times of the caveman!

Hmmm, I think quite a few Dominicans I know would qualify a certain country next to it into this "savage" category.. Sorry I had to.
 

Santiagohombre1

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Richest Countries in Africa
Rank Country GDP - per capita
1 Mauritius $ 11,400
2 South Africa $ 10,700
3 Botswana $ 9,000
4 Seychelles $ 7,800
5 Namibia $ 7,200
6 Tunisia $ 6,900
7 Libya $ 6,400
8 Algeria $ 6,000
9 Gabon $ 5,500
10 Swaziland $ 4,900
11 Egypt $ 4,000
12 Morocco $ 4,000
13 Lesotho $ 3,000
14 Equatorial Guinea $ 2,700
15 Ghana $ 2,200
16 Guinea $ 2,100
17 Angola $ 1,900
18 Zimbabwe $ 1,900
19 Sudan $ 1,900
20 Mauritania $ 1,800


Richest Countries in Asia
Rank Country GDP - per capita
1 Japan $ 28,200
2 Singapore $ 23,700
3 Brunei $ 18,600
4 Korea, South $ 17,800
5 Palau $ 9,000
6 Malaysia $ 9,000
7 Thailand $ 7,400
8 Turkey $ 6,700
9 Kazakhstan $ 6,300
10 Turkmenistan $ 5,800
11 China $ 5,000
12 Philippines $ 4,600
13 Maldives $ 3,900
14 Sri Lanka $ 3,700
15 Armenia $ 3,500
16 Azerbaijan $ 3,400
17 Indonesia $ 3,200
18 India $ 2,900
19 Vietnam $ 2,500
20 Papua New Guinea $ 2,200

Richest Countries in Central America
Rank Country GDP - per capita
1 Costa Rica $ 9,100
2 Panama $ 6,300
3 Belize $ 4,900

Richest Countries in South America
Rank Country GDP - per capita
1 Uruguay $ 12,800
2 Argentina $ 11,200
3 Chile $ 9,900
4 Brazil $ 7,600
5 Colombia $ 6,300
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
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PlantaFULL said:
Unless the definitions have changed, 2nd world used to equal communist Sovient Union and since its collapse no country is refered to as 2nd world. There is only 1st and 3rd left and the term 4th world has been added in recent years to distinguish the "hell holes".

I maybe wrong on this but I'm willing to learn :)
PlantaFULL, you're correct!

SantiagoHombre is confusing middle income countries for 2nd world.

Middle income countries and low income countries are collectively known as third world.

That's what he is not aware of, although I hope now he will be.

However, if he wants to be politically correct, he can use the "newer" terms to derive different countries in different stages of development:

Advanced Nations

Developing Nations

Underdeveloped Nations

The biggest difference between developing and underdeveloping nations is that developing are actually developing and underdeveloped nations are not.

-NALs