Elitism, what a shame

[AZB]

Chiri, what island do you live in?
I have met you and I know you are no friends with colmado motoconcho type folks.
Whom are you fooling here?
I have met your husband and your kid. There is no way you can agree with chip and then not live in his shoes. You 2 live in 2 different world.
AZB

 

[Chirimoya]

AZB - tal vez no me explico - I mean we definitely don't look down on people because they don't drive the 'right' cars or because of the colour of their skin, and we choose friends who think the same way.

I'm not denying that those attitudes prevail here - the point I am trying to make is that you can choose not to go along with them without being a complete anomaly.

Is it just in the capital that one finds that rare breed of Dominicans who don't worship at the altar of the jeepeta??? The people I am talking about are the usual pinkoes in the media, the arts, the NGO world, etc. etc. Those are the people we tend to hang around with.

Also AZB - you have mentioned in the past that you drive a non-flashy car - yet that hasn't made you an outcast in your sophisticated circles!

Anyway I think driving a car half a mile to school is a far more ridiculous idea - no wonder so many kids are obese!

 

[Lambada]

Is it just in the capital that one finds that rare breed of Dominicans who don't worship at the altar of the jeepeta??? The people I am talking about are the usual pinkoes in the media, the arts, the NGO world, etc. etc. Those are the people we tend to hang around with.

No, we have some here in Puerto Plata too. I don't know if they're media pinkoes etc etc I do know they are people with intellect. And often 'old' money not new, but they have the couth & class not to flash it so it never comes up in discussions.

 

[AZB]

Chiri, I don't look down upon people who are poor. As a matter of fact, I help many folks who are in need. I just don't post these stories on DR1 unless I am challenged to do so.
I do know many folks who are hard working honest human beings and also happen to be a bit poorer than the rest. I am not rich either. I have a 1990 toyota and a 2000 toyota which is in a very nice condition. So I am not a jepeta driving guy in santiago, although, I am driven in jepetas everyday by my friends. why drive when I can be driven around?
All I am saying is that this is their country and their rules, not ours. I simply respect their rules and follow them to the extent I am allowed to follow. The dominicans who have worked hard to live in decent areas of this city have also worked to secure schools for their kids where everyone is just like them. Just like in pakistan or USA. Now do you think its fair to them and to the little girl that a person comes in on motoconcho type bike to drop off his kid and then drive out like a motoconcho in baseball hat and T shirt? This is why they pay more money to send their kids to better schools so they don't have to see this motoconcho type image around them. Chip is doing completely opposite, going against the grain and then, to top it off, embarrassing his lovely innocent daughter in front of her class mates.
There is nothing wrong with interacting with poor folks but what book tells us to marry into them and feed their 10 family members till your bank balance is dry?

I like to be with people whom I feel comfortable with, with people whom I can share a healthy intellectual conversation. I do not like to entertain a bunch of campesinos who know nothing about nothing that interests me. I also hate being with people who lack information on some of the most commonest knowledge in everyday life. I hate people who spit at you CNN and fox news garbage. To me they are brain washed dummies, thus I also avoid them just like I avoid the barrio folks whom I have little in common with. the same reason I avoid the drug dealers of santiago who drive around in porche chayanne (???spelling). they invite me to their private beach villas, but I always turn down their invitation because I have nothing in common with them.
So i don't hate poor people I simply don't worship them like many do here.
I don't see myself marrying with a poor barrio girl because I think I can do better than that at the moment. I just don't make friends with people because they are poor. if they are poor, so be it. there is nothing wrong with it. If I can help, I certainly do my part.
AZB

 

[MrMike]

I applaud those who chose to confront classism, eitism and other forms of discrimination we have to deal with every day in Dominican life, but I also recognise that it is very unlikely they will accomplish anything.

I had my own issue recently at Gold's Gym in Santiago which was pretty anoying, but I did manage to get it sorted out to my almost satisfaction.

I will post the details in another thread.

 

[MrMike]

Chiri, I don't look down upon people who are poor. As a matter of fact, I help many folks who are in need. I just don't post these stories on DR1 unless I am challenged to do so.
I do know many folks who are hard working honest human beings and also happen to be a bit poorer than the rest. I am not rich either. I have a 1990 toyota and a 2000 toyota which is in a very nice condition. So I am not a jepeta driving guy in santiago, although, I am driven in jepetas everyday by my friends. why drive when I can be driven around?
All I am saying is that this is their country and their rules, not ours. I simply respect their rules and follow them to the extent I am allowed to follow. The dominicans who have worked hard to live in decent areas of this city have also worked to secure schools for their kids where everyone is just like them. Just like in pakistan or USA. Now do you think its fair to them and to the little girl that a person comes in on motoconcho type bike to drop off his kid and then drive out like a motoconcho in baseball hat and T shirt? This is why they pay more money to send their kids to better schools so they don't have to see this motoconcho type image around them. Chip is doing completely opposite, going against the grain and then, to top it off, embarrassing his lovely innocent daughter in front of her class mates.
There is nothing wrong with interacting with poor folks but what book tells us to marry into them and feed their 10 family members till your bank balance is dry?

I like to be with people whom I feel comfortable with, with people whom I can share a healthy intellectual conversation. I do not like to entertain a bunch of campesinos who know nothing about nothing that interests me. I also hate being with people who lack information on some of the most commonest knowledge in everyday life. I hate people who spit at you CNN and fox news garbage. To me they are brain washed dummies, thus I also avoid them just like I avoid the barrio folks whom I have little in common with. the same reason I avoid the drug dealers of santiago who drive around in porche chayanne (???spelling). they invite me to their private beach villas, but I always turn down their invitation because I have nothing in common with them.
So i don't hate poor people I simply don't worship them like many do here.
I don't see myself marrying with a poor barrio girl because I think I can do better than that at the moment. I just don't make friends with people because they are poor. if they are poor, so be it. there is nothing wrong with it. If I can help, I certainly do my part.
AZB

I understand what you are saying AZB, I don't spend time with people I can't learn anything from either, but as I'm sure you realise going out of your way to make their life difficult and belittling them intentionally is another thing altogether. - Actually could be a sign of class insecurity in a lot of cases.

 

[SantiagoDR]

I understand what you are saying AZB, I don't spend time with people I can't learn anything from either, but as I'm sure you realise going out of your way to make their life difficult and belittling them intentionally is another thing altogether. - Actually could be a sign of class insecurity in a lot of cases.

Like the saying goes: If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it?

If you have to keep telling people you are better then them, are you?

Chip, the bike is cheap transportation, easy to use, etc. But in this case I really think you need to not use it to take her to school in your T shirt and baseball cap.

You have a nice Jeepeta, use that.

Wait the extra minutes in line, or be a true Dominican driver, go around the line. lol

 

[sokitoumi]

ive certainly learnt alot from this thread

 

[DOMINCAN BOY]

Chip put the clock back half hour dont tell the wife so she will be on time, take the wife and the jeepeta with your child, let your daughter give her mum a kiss and you when you drop her off so they now she is not the maid probably the other jeepeta,s are :bunnyn h/p drive now pay latter ?

 

[johne]

write a little more please

ive certainly learnt alot from this thread

Care to expand ? Hopefully, you learned there are a great deal of opinions from some knowledgeable people and from some people that think they know a lot about caste systems, social systems and behaviour, and the personification of boasting--AKA braggadocio.

 

[sokitoumi]

trying to decipher humour from rudeness at the moment without much success.......I think i learnt i dont want to go to a dr1 get together

 

[Rocky]

trying to decipher humour from rudeness at the moment without much success.......I think i learnt i dont want to go to a dr1 get together

Not to worry.
We never invite any rifraf and we always have a blast.

 

[sokitoumi]

errrm thats humour right ? am i getting any better at spotting it

 

[Adrian Bye]

Like it or not, elitism/classism is a serious issue we face in the DR. Only a few posters understand it well. The rest are (perhaps blissfully) oblivious.

If you're planning on spending significant time in this country, be aware this may impact you too, one way or another.

 

[Robert]

The rest are (perhaps blissfully) oblivious.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Texas Bill]

Well Chip, you have been graphically exposed to what is called" the Latin Experience". This is not exclusively a Dominican thingy. In Mexico, the population is divided by the degrees of non-Spanish blood flowing in their veins. The original Castillians in Mexico took great pains to maintain a "pure" line and married ONLY "Pure" Castillians from the begining. In later centuries, this was modified to include many French, German and Italian members of the aristocracy. All others were excluded, including those from the USA because they lacked aristcratic leinage that could be proven. This has permiated the Latin Societies of Central and South America, including theSpanish speaking Caribbean Nations.
So, in reality, what you are fighting is culture steeped in elitism from the begining and which will never be changed.
Might as well join 'em and get on with your life.
BTW, as you may know, this same "Elitism" syndrome is also very prevelent in the good ole USA. Just not as noticable as it is here.

Texas Bill

 

[El Tigre]

some people need to get a life around here. sorry i know my comment is off topic.

 

[DRob]

Guess I'm still blissfully ignorant here.

With the exception of one or two people on here, I would surmise that the vast majority of DR1ers do not interact with the "elite" classes on a peer level.

Try this test: In your home country, did you interact with heads of state or captains of industry on a regular basis? Didn't think so.

Now, move down to another country, as a visitor (for however long). Be viewed as a gringo, or outsider, who does not bring any value to that group (meaning aristocratic lineage or deep, deep pockets). Why would they view you as equals? You're not from old money, you're not rich (in their sense), and their preteen children know more about the language and culture and social mores than most "enlightened" expats ever will.

And they know that.

Get my point? Chip can show up in a Range Rover pulled by a dozen Haitians (to reduce mileage) with his alabaster skinned wife waving to the masses, and he'll still be viewed as an outsider.

AZB can be ferried around the country by his buddies as they show off their exotic Pakistani-American pe--I mean, "friend," but if all the comments of a racist and elitist society are true, then as a matter of logic he's too brown, too asian, and too new money to ever be viewed as an equal.

NOBODY who is not born into aristocracy in an "old world" culture can expect to be accepted as anything other than "tacky new money." Note, I'm not trying to demean anyone, but they are demeaning because THEY DON'T SEE YOU AS EQUALS, in DR or any other country, no matter what you think.

It's the universal perogative of the moneyed class to look down upon all others, because most people (wrongly) equate cash with class and character.

Over generations, new money becomes old, and the math changes, but for those who are currently in country, forget about it.

Once again, my question: so what? You likely didn't interact with the ruling class back at home, and did just fine. Why are you obsessed with cracking that society here? They appreciate your filling their pockets with your money and their ears with your entertaining gringo stories, but they don't want you in their little club.

It's like obsessing over Skulls and Bones, the Yale organization for the future rulers of the world. If they wanted you, I'm sure they would have let you know by now. Meantime, get over it, love the ones who love you, and live your life.

 

[jackieboo]

The ?elitists? here are nothing more than common bourgeoisie? My dog has more aristocratic blood than the whole of this island.

Racism again raises its ugly head here on the forum dismissed as the fault of the parent that wants to raise his kid the way he wants her to be raised.

Who gives a rodents behind whether she?s dropped off at school on a motorcycle or a tricycle? The little girl has obviously been infected by the bourgeoisie Dominican viruses she goes to school with and needs immediate physiological treatment.

Wandering the streets of the poorest barrios here in the DR I see so many loving and intelligent children that have many more important issues to deal with, like AM I going to eat tonight and WILL there be lights?

No one EVER learns from the past. If I were a Dominican bourgeoisie I?d be much more concerned about WHEN the next revolution will take place instead of worrying about what jeepetta to buy this year.

 

[corsair74]

To the OP.

I fully understand your disgruntlement. I don't agree with such blatant elitism. Which, when practiced with such fervor as you sometimes see in a lot of Latin American countries, can be seen as indicative of an underdeveloped and non-progressive society.

However, it seems to be deeply rooted in the DR. And it seems that you've made a conscious decision to make your life there. You have a domincan wife and children. So I don't think that it is really fair to apply an American way of thinking to this situation. Now, I'm not saying that you should change the way that you think about things. But as you are essentially a foreign visitor in that country, you should reasonably expect to adjust to the local way of life. Especially, when the compromise that you are being asked to make is relatively minor.

And believe me, embarassing the hell out of your daughter in front of her friends is not going to teach her the lesson you are aiming for. And keep in mind that this is a society where image and personal connections are paramount.

You see. You may not need to fit in, as you are already an accomplished adult and have already taken advantage of the opportunities provided here in the states. But your daughter definitely needs to learn to flourish socially so that she too will be provided opportunities. And you can still teach her the values that you hold so dear.

As someone stated earlier, ADAPT. For your children's sake.


Vince.