Exodus in Cabarete?

[Lambada]

Oh dear, is this another dig at long timers because the poster isn't one?

I would humbly point out that crime caused by drugs is not repeat NOT tackled by 'a few phone calls'.

And that those DR1 members who are actively doing something about it have far too much sense than to publically identify themselves. And that those who might be able to guess who they are have far too much sense to make such guesses public. Really! Whatever next!

Sorry to everyone else for having to spell out the obvious. For anyone who thinks such activity is for the wet behind the ears please remember Fiscal Ceballos.

 

[Chip00]

Oh dear, is this another dig at long timers because the poster isn't one?

I would humbly point out that crime caused by drugs is not repeat NOT tackled by 'a few phone calls'.

And that those DR1 members who are actively doing something about it have far too much sense than to publically identify themselves. And that those who might be able to guess who they are have far too much sense to make such guesses public. Really! Whatever next!

Sorry to everyone else for having to spell out the obvious. For anyone who thinks such activity is for the wet behind the ears please remember Fiscal Ceballos.

This spoken like a true pro - take heed Jackieboo!

 

[jackieboo]

Oh dear, is this another dig at long timers because the poster isn't one?

I would humbly point out that crime caused by drugs is not repeat NOT tackled by 'a few phone calls'.

And that those DR1 members who are actively doing something about it have far too much sense than to publically identify themselves. And that those who might be able to guess who they are have far too much sense to make such guesses public. Really! Whatever next!

Sorry to everyone else for having to spell out the obvious. For anyone who thinks such activity is for the wet behind the ears please remember Fiscal Ceballos.

Whatever, .....

Again, no solutions, no hope, only dire warnings from the long time downer crowd.

Lay off the Fiscal thing as there's really two sides to that story as you know.

And here's a secret Lambada, Elvis is really alive and livinging in El Batay, shhh.. don't tell anyone, o.k.?

 

[Lambada]

This spoken like a true pro - take heed Jackieboo!

Yes, well you saw the 'heed' that was taken.............. I can only assume from his last comment that he thinks drug related crime is some sort of delusional joke. I'm sure many of us would disagree...............

 

[cobraboy]

Call the friggin president, e-mail the tourist minister, make yourself heard further than the all important DR1 !

Great idea, jackie!

After all, it worked wonders for the garbage on the North Coast, huh?

And certainly, the garbage problem was much harder to "fix" than drug related crime...

 

[BushBaby]

Whatever, .....

Again, no solutions, no hope, only dire warnings from the long time downer crowd.

Lay off the Fiscal thing as there's really two sides to that story as you know.

And here's a secret Lambada, Elvis is really alive and livinging in El Batay, shhh.. don't tell anyone, o.k.?

So, the report of the in-country long-timers is that crime is up and that it is completely different from the crime in the past, duh.

I have a question, why haven't the 'long-timers' done anything about the change in crime?

It seems that on this board there's an aweful lot of whining and very little real action taken by the members. Here's an idea, get off the computer and make a few phone calls, since the 'long timers' have been here for so long you'd think by now that they would have made a few connections, right? Why not use those connections to improve the situation?

Call the friggin president, e-mail the tourist minister, make yourself heard further than the all important DR1 !

Well I think that I have lain on the floor laughing at the above quotes long enough ? now is the time for a few words of helpful information to the poster.

For those of you who know me well ???? enjoy the humour of this response.

For those intelligent enough to recognize it, enjoy the sarcasm this contains

For those not sufficiently gifted with the means to distinguish one OR the other (possibly like the poster of these quotes) please bear with me being apparently so rude as to disagree with the comments this poster has made.

Anyone commencing a post with ?Whatever ???.? immediately indicates his/her inability to continue a sane & logical thought process AND the fortitude to pay sufficient attention to any useful information that might be forthcoming, ???. but let me continue to try the education process as I don?t give up that easily.

Might I refer the honourable gentleman to this article

.: Peri?dico El Faro•Edici?n Digital :..

It was written IN SPANISH some weeks ago & laid the writer open to ill feelings & possible dangers IF misinterpreted by the local Dominicans. However, it does lay out her thoughts on drug related crime issues in this country, it DID get published & has received widespread support from Dominicans locally. What have YOU had published? :squareeye

(Public Health warning. If you have to use Bablefish to translate the text, please be very careful as excess use of the grey matter formulating the translation into readable English can be prejudicial to your health if you are unused to using the brain!). :cheeky: :cheeky:

Was it not YOU who stated (when advice, suggestions & help was offered on your ?Trash clean up of Cabarete & Sosua? thread) that you would do things YOUR way & not go at things half cocked? Half cocked MIGHT have got things moving a little faster & might by now have turned into a more successful project. I recall at our meeting to help you move things along, that I made a suggestion that you should walk into all the businesses on Pedro Clisante to discuss (not sell) your ideas re the project & get some feedback from those knowledgeable Dominicans as to how best to proceed (& elicit their help/donations at the same time). Was it not YOU that told me you did not like ?Cold Calling??? If that is the case, how do you have the gall to suggest that people ?get off the computer and make a few phone calls, since the 'long timers' have been here for so long you'd think by now that they would have made a few connections, right? Why not use those connections to improve the situation?? :tired:

Some of us (at the same early stage of our time in this country that you are presently at) were already in the process of visiting the local prison for 14 months to help an inmate retain his sanity. Talking to guards & prison officers about things germane to the DR & how we could help improve the prison system, was a weekly conversation ? some of which is now coming to fruition. I haven?t seen your credentials in this matter but I would be interested to hear of them! aranoid:

I am intrigued by your use of words to Lambada re the Fiscal ? did you mean that as a threat of some kind? Are you suggesting that she is less aware of the situation re that Fiscal than your good-self? I am sure she would be delighted to discuss the subject with you in greater detail ? having known her for a good many years I can advise you that she is EXCELLENT at character assassinations. Good luck to you if you should accept this impossible (& foolhardy) mission!!:bunny:

I would be most interested to hear which of my connections you have been speaking to to determine that I have not been ?working to improve the situation (of crime) gre:. I?ll be glad to join you at any of my contacts you name & then call them a liar to their face (something I am not normally prone to do as I prefer to work WITH people rather than be confrontational!!).

Now, dear boy, if you would like to continue this form of dialogue & discuss other things we have done, feel free to do so here or anywhere that is public. I would love to be able to do a lot more for this country but I REFUSE to push MY desires/interpretations of what is right & what is wrong down the throats of the people who are my hosts in this country. I find a bit of humility & acceptance that others may see things differently to me, goes a long way to getting words turned into action ? even if this takes a year or two to achieve. :surprised

OK. - over to you to teach me my manners & how I should do things differently. Judging from your recent responses, I am unlike you in that I am keen to listen & learn from others! ~ Grahame :chinese: :cheeky:

 

[BushBaby]

Well, I didn't get the public response here that I had asked for, but I DID get a PM!! As the poster concerned has now (according to his PM) taken himself into self exile, it is unlikely I (we) shall get the answers requested here - I am unlikely to hear which of my contacts he has been speaking to!

Answer to what has HE had published was an advertising blurb in Dominican Today - not sure who wrote it because there is no name attached, but it DID appear in the third person so seems unlikely to have been written by 'Himself' unless he was just trying to promote himself & his company. As a means of educating myself & learning something new, I did a check on Envirocare & came up with Envirocare of Utah, Envirocare Technology or Envirocare Consultancy in Bradford? Is Envirocare here in the DR related to any of these or is it a separate C por A or S.A.I wonder?? I thought the idea was to make this a Foundation so as to receive donations & then re-invest ALL profits into the Foundation??
(BTW, you might want to tell the writer of that advertising blurb that the word for Ex-Pats is Ex-patriat .......... NOT Ex-patriot which means something quite different in the ENGLISH language!!)

ME Politically correct????? That will be the day!! Not blatantly rude I agree, but it is much more fun (& challenging) to write with a touch of humour in one's posts!! If I were to write responses that argued directly with a small minded poster, one who was unable to see the GOOD that appears on every page of DR1 rather than just the negative posts, then I would probably get banned from DR1 very quickly. Having been part of DR1's growth over the last 10 years AND involved with Puerto Plata News prior to that, being banned is not a constructive way to get one's message across & be helpful! After all, DR1 (despite being as negative as you suggest it is) is STILL the widest source of information for those wanting to find out things about the DR!! If I were to be more blunt I might have to say to posters who come on to DR1 just to "rub many board members the wrong way, this is intentional" ........ "FOR CHRIST's sake, grow up", "Act like a MAN" or "Stop being such a great big Jerk" - now where would that get any of us?? :cheeky:

Now, back to the OP's question:-
YES, the article IS exaggerated & patently written by those who did not exercise due care & diligence when they bought the property.

There maybe quite a number of people leaving the north shores but I would suggest this is mainly as a result of (& not in any particular order)
1) a desire to get back to "family" because they can not hack it here
2) getting older & needing 'EASY' health care services
3) not wanting to have the daily hassles that go with living in a Third World country
4) a desire to have ONLY English speaking people around them (borne out by the numbers who HAVE to live in English speaking areas)
5) more convenient & comfortable short distance travel (now that they are older & don't like the idea of driving in the DR anymore
6) Linked to the last AND 2) above .... a need to rest the weary bones from the daily pounding they get from the potholes in the DR roads!!
7) they think they have made as much from their property as they can & are now pulling out to take their profit margin with them!!

However, I would suggest that there are more immigrations than there are emigrations by ex-pats & this is unlikely to change within the next 10 years!! ~ Grahame.

 

[Dandman]

I have been visiting the DR for several years but until this winter, I had never visited Cabarete. I arranged a week there..........it was one of the longest weeks of my life. I will NEVER return to that crime ridden cesspool. I was not even a victim of crime......but the talk of it was all around.

 

[Camden Tom]

I have been visiting the DR for several years but until this winter, I had never visited Cabarete. I arranged a week there..........it was one of the longest weeks of my life. I will NEVER return to that crime ridden cesspool. I was not even a victim of crime......but the talk of it was all around.

Wow, pretty strong reaction for having spent an entire week of your whole life there. I've spent several months each year for the last several years in Cabarete and have never been the victim of a crime...............other than a few small bribes to local officials.

 

[Rocky]

The DR ain't for everybody, thank God, or they would all move here.

 

[Camden Tom]

The DR ain't for everybody, thank God, or they would all move here.

Amen.........

 

[CFA123]

.....it was one of the longest weeks of my life. I will NEVER return to that crime ridden cesspool. I was not even a victim of crime......but the talk of it was all around.

That seems a little harsh to me.

Can you be more specific about your experience? Where you stayed, what talk you heard about crime, and where your prior visits were that were so distinctly different from this year's visit to Cabarete?

I'm just curious what you saw/heard that led you to this conclusion. I'd say it's the norm for tourists to go to Cabarete, enjoy the hotels, beach, sports, bars, and restaurants without encountering any trouble or even idea that there might be. Its' more something those living/working in the area become aware of over time.

All the friends/family that I've ever taken have thoroughly enjoyed themselves and have either returned or intend to in the future.

 

[PabloPaul]

He did say he was no crime victim, but heard of the crimes that happen there which is funny because that's why I never ever leave my house no matter where I live. There are people out there just walking around. What do they want? Do they all want to rob me? I have heard about this stuff on TV. It's a show called CNN and they say if I leave my house it could be robbed too. Is this true?
I better just stay home, at least I'll be safe.... unless I die of boredom that is.
Cabarete - cess pool?
Wow guy, you better not go to Puerto Plata then. Wait, you better not go to Sosua either...... no....wait, you better just go back to the airport and wait for you flight, because if you think Cabarete is bad.....sheeeeesh!

 

[Chris]

I have been visiting the DR for several years but until this winter, I had never visited Cabarete. I arranged a week there..........it was one of the longest weeks of my life. I will NEVER return to that crime ridden cesspool. I was not even a victim of crime......but the talk of it was all around.

You obviously need to change your friends. (Is there a shaking-head smily?)

 

[DavidZ]

I have been visiting the DR for several years but until this winter, I had never visited Cabarete. I arranged a week there..........it was one of the longest weeks of my life. I will NEVER return to that crime ridden cesspool. I was not even a victim of crime......but the talk of it was all around.

jeez...crime ridden cesspool?? Where do you live... Oz?? Ive lived here almost 2 years and I have heard of ONE direct "crime" in the town of Cabarete... a drunk loser who followed a Puta to the end of the beach late at night...dropped his pants for what he thought would be...well...you figure it out...what happened? she took the money out of his pocket and walked away...oh wait, I did hear of one more incident, just outside Cabarete...someone I met had some belongings stolen from her condo while she was out...yep, this place is like a war zone...

Oh, almost forgot...someone took my flip flops from the beach after I left them for a couple of hours... Im thinking I better move from here to a safer place...

 

[Rocky]

jeez...crime ridden cesspool?? Where do you live... Oz?? Ive lived here almost 2 years and I have heard of ONE direct "crime" in the town of Cabarete... a drunk loser who followed a Puta to the end of the beach late at night...dropped his pants for what he thought would be...well...you figure it out...what happened? she took the money out of his pocket and walked away...oh wait, I did hear of one more incident, just outside Cabarete...someone I met had some belongings stolen from her condo while she was out...yep, this place is like a war zone...

Oh, almost forgot...someone took my flip flops from the beach after I left them for a couple of hours... Im thinking I better move from here to a safer place...

But...
If you'd been camping out in the middle of the Sahara desert, maybe none of this would have happened.
I hear they have a really low crime rate there, almost as low as in the Antartic.

 

[DavidZ]

But...
If you'd been camping out in the middle of the Sahara desert, maybe none of this would have happened.
I hear they have a really low crime rate there, almost as low as in the Antartic.

true... but there arent any chicas there either... :ermm:

 

[Rocky]

true... but there arent any chicas there either... :ermm:

But them camels are a lovin bunch, and the penguins are so darn cute....

 

[greenzulu]

Infomation

DR1 posts often contain, as a group, more mudslinging, sarcasm, rhetoric, rhetorical "historical" references, insults, bragging, fault-finding, finger pointing, I've-been-here-longer and general gringo too-much-time-on-my-hands drivel than information. More straight facts would be helpful, although perhaps less entertaining to the writer.

No one on DR1 appears to have the hard statistics to define, predict, or even comment usefully on "crime trends." Occasionally there are useful facts or intelligent comments, which makes it worth scanning DR1 to find the pearls amidst many swinelike posts. Long-timers, short-timers, small minders -- what a waste of space.

As of today, June 4th, there have been four armed robberies in 90 days within 250 yards of my house near Cabarete. This is not rumour; I saw the residents half-dressed and tied up in one case, and spoke to those whose dog was shot in front of them in a second case [the robbers making a point]. The two other houses were unoccupied at the time, so we don't know whether the robbers had arms or not.

A fifth attempted robbery five days ago was broken up by a security guard with a shotgun. He apprehended one out of two; purportedly the one, now in jail, gave up his three friends [not good for his future health]. Two Dominicans, two Haitians. Criminals don't seem to share the DR/Haitian cultural conflict. They may, or may not, have been implicated in the other robberies; the one apprehended was not armed. The armed robbers behaved like people with military or police training: gun trained, pointing with free hand, other stuff. One should assume they were different people.

A few days ago two doctors from Gaspar Hernandez were followed by a white Montero, which pulled alongside and flagged them to stop. They accelerated, it dropped behind -- and started shooting. It then pulled alongside again, and the doctors popped three rounds of their own at the Montero. It droped back again and followed for awhile more until they stopped in a populated area. Later they received a call from the police saying that the assailants were policement who thought they were chasing "delinquentes." I wouldn't think that likely.

At a security gate near my house, two weeks ago, a Haitian cleaning woman on the way to work at 7PM was threatened with rape by three youths, purportedly manning the gate. She was saved by a Haitian moto conch driver.

In the last three days, the hinges [external, bad idea on the builder's part] on one of my downstairs windows were half pried out. My house is mostly secured by heavy metal. The vertical, upward-carved scratches from the screwdriver slipping off from time to time are visible above both hinges. It was probably done to ready them for a final, brief push in order to get in quickly. I have taken adequate countermeasures.

The comment made regarding the cycle of new development/abandoned development makes sense. Criminals will always go for low-hanging fruit. Moreover, as was also correctly mentioned, "Cabarete people" are unlikely to be responsible for most of the crime. I know personally of gangs that operate in this area out of Santiago with some regularity, and there are undoubtedly gangs from other cities. They are both Dominican and Haitian.

All of the foregoing is based on first-hand knowledge. I think this is my second post in two years, I doubt they will become more frequent. I hope it is useful.

For the record, I think the DR is a lovely place to live, and Dominicans are a friendly, cheerful lot as a whole. But it is not an appropriate place to take many chances with your safety or family, or for those unprepared to pay a price in vigilance for what they save in housing costs and bad northern weather. There are serious disparities in wealth here, poorly-paid police, and a lack of crime prevention technology, which adds up to a need for considerable self-sufficiency and reliable local information, however obtained. As the SAS teach, it helps to be the grey man.

Be careful.
greenzulu

 

[Chris]

All of the foregoing is based on first-hand knowledge. I think this is my second post in two years, I doubt they will become more frequent. I hope it is useful.

For the record, I think the DR is a lovely place to live, and Dominicans are a friendly, cheerful lot as a whole. But it is not an appropriate place to take many chances with your safety or family, or for those unprepared to pay a price in vigilance for what they save in housing costs and bad northern weather. There are serious disparities in wealth here, poorly-paid police, and a lack of crime prevention technology, which adds up to a need for considerable self-sufficiency and reliable local information, however obtained. As the SAS teach, it helps to be the grey man.

Bolding mine ... thank you for your well-thought out post and your first hand information.