Exodus in Cabarete?

[batich]

DR1 posts often contain, as a group, more mudslinging, sarcasm, rhetoric, rhetorical "historical" references, insults, bragging, fault-finding, finger pointing, I've-been-here-longer and general gringo too-much-time-on-my-hands drivel than information. More straight facts would be helpful, although perhaps less entertaining to the writer.

No one on DR1 appears to have the hard statistics to define, predict, or even comment usefully on "crime trends." Occasionally there are useful facts or intelligent comments, which makes it worth scanning DR1 to find the pearls amidst many swinelike posts. Long-timers, short-timers, small minders -- what a waste of space.

As of today, June 4th, there have been four armed robberies in 90 days within 250 yards of my house near Cabarete. This is not rumour; I saw the residents half-dressed and tied up in one case, and spoke to those whose dog was shot in front of them in a second case [the robbers making a point]. The two other houses were unoccupied at the time, so we don't know whether the robbers had arms or not.

A fifth attempted robbery five days ago was broken up by a security guard with a shotgun. He apprehended one out of two; purportedly the one, now in jail, gave up his three friends [not good for his future health]. Two Dominicans, two Haitians. Criminals don't seem to share the DR/Haitian cultural conflict. They may, or may not, have been implicated in the other robberies; the one apprehended was not armed. The armed robbers behaved like people with military or police training: gun trained, pointing with free hand, other stuff. One should assume they were different people.

A few days ago two doctors from Gaspar Hernandez were followed by a white Montero, which pulled alongside and flagged them to stop. They accelerated, it dropped behind -- and started shooting. It then pulled alongside again, and the doctors popped three rounds of their own at the Montero. It droped back again and followed for awhile more until they stopped in a populated area. Later they received a call from the police saying that the assailants were policement who thought they were chasing "delinquentes." I wouldn't think that likely.

At a security gate near my house, two weeks ago, a Haitian cleaning woman on the way to work at 7PM was threatened with rape by three youths, purportedly manning the gate. She was saved by a Haitian moto conch driver.

In the last three days, the hinges [external, bad idea on the builder's part] on one of my downstairs windows were half pried out. My house is mostly secured by heavy metal. The vertical, upward-carved scratches from the screwdriver slipping off from time to time are visible above both hinges. It was probably done to ready them for a final, brief push in order to get in quickly. I have taken adequate countermeasures.

The comment made regarding the cycle of new development/abandoned development makes sense. Criminals will always go for low-hanging fruit. Moreover, as was also correctly mentioned, "Cabarete people" are unlikely to be responsible for most of the crime. I know personally of gangs that operate in this area out of Santiago with some regularity, and there are undoubtedly gangs from other cities. They are both Dominican and Haitian.

All of the foregoing is based on first-hand knowledge. I think this is my second post in two years, I doubt they will become more frequent. I hope it is useful.

For the record, I think the DR is a lovely place to live, and Dominicans are a friendly, cheerful lot as a whole. But it is not an appropriate place to take many chances with your safety or family, or for those unprepared to pay a price in vigilance for what they save in housing costs and bad northern weather. There are serious disparities in wealth here, poorly-paid police, and a lack of crime prevention technology, which adds up to a need for considerable self-sufficiency and reliable local information, however obtained. As the SAS teach, it helps to be the grey man.

Be careful.
greenzulu

Thank you for the very honest post!

Real Eastate people will give you a hard time now, better be prepared!

 

[Boca Bob]

Thank you for the very honest post!

Real Eastate people will give you a hard time now, better be prepared!

Or Robert will say, this Post is now closed

 

[Lambada]

As of today, June 4th, there have been four armed robberies in 90 days within 250 yards of my house near Cabarete. This is not rumour;

This is absolutely believable and has been going on for at least 4 months. On another forum I reported that during one week alone towards end of February there were 12 robberies in Cabarete, Camino del Sol area and Islabon. Not sure if that fits within your 90 day framework or not - not all of those were reported in the papers so I couldn't mention them here on DR1 (where the guidelines are that information should either be first hand or backed up by a newspaper report). I didn't have first hand information about these, nor a newspaper report but the sources were good. So I put them elsewhere, which is what I (& others) tend to do. There are some of us who inform each other privately when the sources are good. There is a difficulty of course in needing to wait for a newspaper source because of a tendency to either under report or not report at all things which affect tourists and/or foreigners. If one only reports where there is a newspaper report one runs the risk of colluding with a policy of keeping some of these incidents out of the public domain. I don't report them here because it doesn't meet the guidelines but I retain my integrity by reporting them elsewhere.

 

[johne]

One Flew over the Cucu Nest

and the other followed right in stride.Full screen posting followed by one line of dribble followed by long time poster with a lot to say.
Very similar to my post now--nothing to say.
Mod--delete mine when ready, aim, fire.
:>

 

[Papa Benito]

We had an attempted armed robbery last Wedesday

Ocean Winds, Encuentro Playa, in a new house. They had knives and a pistol. One man attempted to shoot me 4x through the slatted windows, but the gun misfired or was empty. Security arrived 10 minutes later after a neighbor fired a flare gun. Security arrived in about 10 minutes after countless screams and yells to get their attention. We will never live in a single family house again! Apparently the robbers were ''druggies''.

 

[Werner]

I got robbed last thursday, shots were fired and all. I am leaving.
I will write my whole story in a day or so, when I have the time.

Sad that things are going this way.

 

[Chip00]

This is getting ugly. I hope that it never gets to this point here in Santiago because I will have to seriously reconsider our decision to call this home.

Where is Leonel when you need him.

 

[Lambada]

I've had an email from someone who has been a posting member of this board for nearly 3 years and who has first hand experience in the Cabarete area recently. I've asked them to be kind enough to share with everyone here.

 

[MommC]

Maybe this is why it was so quiet in our area this winter.
Many of the long time 'part-timers' found other countries to visit this winter and some of the long term residents have also permanently left the island. I shudder to think what our area will be like with all the over building taking place there at present.
Development is good if handled in an appropriate way but when left to develop rampantly without firm guidelines good can turn bad very quickly.
Add to that the prevalence of drugs that never used to be found on the island and things get downright nasty.

 

[Victor Laszlo]

Not JUST drugs...

The people I know in the DR tell me often about how prices and taxes keep going up and up to the point where they can no longer maintain, let alone get ahead in any way. They feel betrayed by Leonel and think (maybe hope) he won't be reelected. I am clueless as to what the alternitives might be, but as life gets more desperate, a rise in crime shouldn't be surprising.

The election is in August, is it not? Surprising that there don't seem to be any election threads as yet.

 

[Lambada]

The election is in August, is it not? Surprising that there don't seem to be any election threads as yet.

You're right, it is not. It will be May 2008. Next President will take up office in August 2008.

 

[Victor Laszlo]

Sorry...

as a friend of mine once said, "I was misinformed".

 

[Chris]

There is a difficulty of course in needing to wait for a newspaper source because of a tendency to either under report or not report at all things which affect tourists and/or foreigners. If one only reports where there is a newspaper report one runs the risk of colluding with a policy of keeping some of these incidents out of the public domain. I don't report them here because it doesn't meet the guidelines but I retain my integrity by reporting them elsewhere.

I'm going off topic for a moment...

For the sake of fairness, let me repeat the guidelines that we work to - and hopefully dispel the myth of some 'policy' that does not exist. (Not aimed at you specifically Lambada)

First-hand information is better than information coming from 'any other hand'
We report information that affects DR1'ers or their immediate circle.
We report information that affects the DR as a whole.
If you say anything about anyone else, your information better be good and provable beyond a doubt and to the quality that will stand up in a court of law (I don't know where the newspaper reports idea came from - given the quality of most of those).
Don't use the DR1 to fight your own personal battles ... you will be deleted.
Of course anything affecting tourists would be reported - but not idle gossip - although this is the living forum and we do gossip from time to time.
And lastly, because I'm a kinda upbeat person, I like to focus on prevention, rather than mindless handwringing.

So, there is no policy to keep "some of these incidents out of the public domain", and
There is no requirement of any nature that calls for a newspaper report.

OK, back to topic...

The thread started with a report that businessmen in Cabarete are threatening to withdraw their investment because of crime in the area.

Personally I know that what has been reported here is but the tip of the iceberg and that the area is experiencing a steep spike of crime. It is easy to try and tie this to 'crime against gringos' but this will really be a stretch imho.

Carry on ...

 

[johne]

Re: Moderator's last post

Since I am usually the first to complain let me be the first to compliment her on the "guidelines" of posting on DR1.

john

 

[Chris]

Johne, I'm talking specifically about the guidelines that I follow for crime reporting threads - including this one here about Cabarete. I would not like to see this out of context. Further, I repeated these here, simply to answer to and hopefully dispel some of the myth that there is some kind of 'white-wash policy'. Please do not consider this a formalized DR1 'policy'. Robert has spelt this out many times in the past and it is neither my place, nor my responsibility to do this.

Each forum has its own guidelines usually posted somewhere in the stickies ..

 

[BushBaby]

We appear to have strayed from the subject somewhat but with EVERY good intention. Your guidelines are clear Chris & thank you for again listing them. Furthermore, they tend to be stuck to & administered fairly with you giving us just enough rope to hang ourselves occasionally!!

May I commend these guidelines to all other moderators & the ability to edit posts (as YOU do) rather than arbitrarily deleting whole threads! Some extremely interesting threads have 'disappeared' recently - almost Trujillo like!!irate:irate: ~ Grahame.

 

[Lambada]

(I don't know where the newspaper reports idea came from - given the quality of most of those)..............

There is no requirement of any nature that calls for a newspaper report.

The thread started with a report that businessmen in Cabarete are threatening to withdraw their investment because of crime in the area.

Personally I know that what has been reported here is but the tip of the iceberg and that the area is experiencing a steep spike of crime. It is easy to try and tie this to 'crime against gringos' but this will really be a stretch imho.

Carry on ...

Great. Very clear. I agree totally about the variable nature of newspaper reporting in DR. What I think that people had noticed was that posts with newspaper links were rarely deleted, so maybe it came from this, deductive reasoning?

I also agree that crime is equal opportunity - both Dominicans and gringos are victims. However, understandable if some perceptions get it wrong since there are many gringos posting on DR1 & there are many gringos living in Cabarete. Maybe Dominicans in that area could be encouraged to share first hand experience also?

 

[Chris]

Thanks for the kind words.

Cabarete used to be my 2nd most favorite place in the world - years ago. For those of us that are not impressed by 'Miami Style Condos on the Beach' type architecture, it is sad to see this very special little spot plagued with crime and plagued with 'investor fever' type development.

 

[Papa Benito]

Orilla del Mar attacked last night by 5 bandits

A gun battle, maybe 30 pistol shots fired. One bandit wounded? No residents injured. What can be done?

 

[CFA123]

Just chatting with friends who live in Proyecto Camino del Sol.
They heard the gunfire and their dogs were going crazy, with one chasing someone off a little later.

They weren't sure what was going on, but said there were people out in the fields for part of the night. Since they didn't identify themselves to the watchman to avoid being shot, the thought is it could have been the ladrones.