Expat Residents With Neighbourhood Problems

[Lambada]

Yes, you're right LindsayK in relation to your comments on my original post. I've also had some emails & PMs on this subject from people who don't want to post themselves but who have given me permission to use their contributions anonymously. Some of these centre on the nationality issue & from them I would like to pose a question. Do communities of foreigners where there are no Dominican residents seem to have more problems sorting out neighbourhood issues than those where there are a fair number of Dominican residents (or foreigners who through time have become 'Dominicanised'?). I ask because I'm picking up from MikeFisher, for example (thanks for your post helpful contributions, Mike) that the ambiance in his community is that people sort out problems for themselves. Or don't worry about them. That is very similar to the area I live in. Small problems get sorted by residents, big issues get reported to the Junta de Vecinos.

The other thing I'm picking up is the differences where blocks of condos with their own condo rules & regs. are also a part of a residential community with individual home owners. It appears that new condo owners are not always informed of condo rules & regs before they purchase - in some cases it looks as if some realtors deliberately avoid this issue so as not to lose the sale.

So..............are residents expectations different based on either nationality, language barrier, condo vs. house ownership, length of time in country & adjustment to life here, amount of real homework done prior to purchase of property, whether residents are busy with fulltime work or voluntary occupations or have time on their hands.........or is it something else? And what mechanisms can be used to a) acknowledge those different expectations exist
b) provide tools whereby there can be a 'meeting of minds' at least at a minimal workable level and
c) how can informal 'vetting' by both the existing residents & the prospective residents be made to be effective?

Clearly the thought of a 'community worker' in every residential location would have many taking to the hills...........:cheeky: So what other solutions are there which people have used & found effective?

 

[LindseyKaufman]

I see your point Lindsey, but it's about points of view and mutual respect.

Some may see for the use of one of your examples that installing a speed bump is a good thing. Let's say that I was a single person who didn't want children playing outside my home and owned a low slung Ferrari (I wish!). Then along comes some nanny state do gooder who installs a speed bump outside my home. Has there been a study carried out that unambiguously states that speed bumps save lives? There were no speed bumps around when I was a child and I never once got run over!

I now have noisy children playing outside my house and I can no longer drive my Ferrari without damaging it on the speed bump.

Am I going to be graciously thankful for the person who took the time and effort to make their own lives more comfortable? That person has a warm fuzzy feeling inside thinking that they have done a good job and wants recognition for it.

Are these types of people only out for altruistic gain? I don't think so.

I agree with you, Beeza. As I said, it is about people working together, not one individual who decides what is best for all. However, even when people work together, usually one unsung hero arises who takes on the brunt of the work. And, often it is those who are not doing the actual work who are the complainers.

In no way did I mean to imply that individuals/community "leaders" should also make choices for all without resident input.

 

[CFA123]

Nowhere did I read in Lambada's post a concern about FOLLOWING association rules or a need for rules.

Correct me if I am misunderstanding something.

Lindsey

I won't attempt to speak for Lambada, but her post seems to ask why people who do what they should in their home country (form committees, make decisions, take action as a whole, contribute funds to projects) don't do the same here. I think in many cases those rules do exist in one form or another 'back home'. Either through neighborhood associations, zoning & building codes, laws enforced against excessive noise, policing/security, or government paving the streets or putting lights on the light poles. People participate because they're already paying taxes to cover it or some homeowner's association or gov't authority will fine them or stop inappropriate actions.

Here, in many areas you're pretty much on your own in terms of many of those things. Some people just don't want or can't afford to share in those expenses. So, why don't they do it... for some because they don't have to. They suffer no repurcussions other than poor relations with their neighbors.

And therefore... in response to Lambada's question, why people don't do here what they would do back home - in some cases, a lack of rules/enforcement.

 

[LindseyKaufman]

And therefore... in response to Lambada's question, why people don't do here what they would do back home - in some cases, a lack of rules/enforcement.

Okay, CFA123. I would have to agree with you there- in some cases.

 

[Lambada]

People participate because they're already paying taxes to cover it or some homeowner's association or gov't authority will fine them or stop inappropriate actions.

Maybe another difference between condo owners (who pay maintenance fees) & home owners who are responsible for their own home maintenance?

And apart from monetary investment, what about emotional investment? Are some owners more 'emotionally invested'? The fulltime residents as opposed to the absentee landowners who have bought for investment purposes (to rent out) for example?

 

[MikeFisher]

yes Lambada,
i would say the 'neighbours-relations' are different in mixed(mixed by nationalities) communities with a good quantity of Dominican community members than in a pure foreigner community.
the dominican community members know well about the 'unwritten' rules,like what you should do by yourself or it will never be donw, they also go straight to the residence's office and let them know what has to be done by the administration of the spot/community, they also know in many cases much better what is exactly written in the spanish contracts/rules books for a community/residence/condo building. i found for myself that this mixture of different people who grew up very different with different educational levels including the %% of dominican community members teachs each one in the community automatically new stuff/behaviors on daily bases due to the daily 'together'.
i don't like everything typical italian/american/dominican/german aso,
but during the years(i am on my 14th dominican summer now) i automatically took some of such behaviors for myself, doing some things an other way i would've been used to from home, i found such 'teaching/learning' without the pressure of a 'must by rule' for myself very comfortable.
it may be different in a huge residence of Condo/Villa owners,
i have friends living in such huge residencies here in PC,
they do not even know the very most of their neighbours,
so of course such communities will not bring up much together,
and when listening to their discussions about things they like/dislike in their community i have often the feeling that they do not even want it an other way, they want/need a administration who hands them over a catalogue of 'rules/regulations' aso so they can live exactly by those rules.
i found such very 'cold',
but of course each his own, many communities here on the east are exactly like that, i like our small and widely mixed one, feels 'warmer'.
btw,
i did not intend to attack Lambada's OP,
i brought just own thoughts into the theme to provoke further opinions of more bordmembers. it's a interesting discussion and i am looking forward to more people's descriptions of their 'community style' where they live all over the island and what they like/dislike on it.
cheers from sunny skies
Mike

 

[catcherintherye]

CFA, please forgive my being so obtuse, but I'd like to further clarify both your point and mine, if you don't mind.

If it is not possible to make improvements in communities, then what are we doing on this thread? I was under the impression we were brain-storming ideas relating to the conditions that cause conflict in communities, and what we can do to mitigate those conflicts. In other words, to try to learn why some communities have more conflicts than others.

One thing I've noticed within the more harmonious communities, is that there is an ongoing respectful dialogue, accompanied with an absence of dismissive attitudes and behaviors,

And within more conflicted communities there is usually an underlying disrespect for differing opinions. In those communities, people's opinions are dismissed out of hand, and there is little tolerance for the free expression of ideas.

Obviously, an on-line forum is very much a community. When one is dissmissive of anothers' ideas or suggestions, there is very little chance of having an open and honest dialogue, and ongoing conflicts soon result.

I hope I am making myself clear. I can be much clearer, if that would be helpful.

 

[granca]

Beeza has listed a lot of reasons why I too left England and find myself very happy here. It appears to me that there are several types of immigrants here and in this summary I am not including the Haitians. People seem to come here, some just to have a holiday home and the hope that letting it out the rest of the year will pay for it, to them it is not important from any point of view except for security and protection of assets whether it is in an apartment block, a gated community or a housing estate like we have england ,identical buildings built of ticky tack.
Next we have those who want to live in an ex-pat community with possibly one token Dominican Family, who possibly only comes at the weekend. The Dominicans in the nearby village are peons only used for work and for saying no to when they ask ludicrous prices for the simplest of jobs. Then we have those Who really want to be part of the local community, that is as much as their colour will allow. Yes in England I voted in the local elections and would not hesitate to write to my local councilor or other , so called, in authority when, usually, stupid things were done or not done. Here however I?m free of all that. Most of the time neighbours and officials just let us get on with our lives. The ajuntamento either does nothing or at best very little so for example when our little bridge was practically falling to bits and lorries and cars kept on falling in the river, a lot of the villagers and I talked about it, agreed that there was nothing official we could do about it so I purchased the materials and the others provided the labour and now we have a workable bridge. The ajuntamento have still said nothing 9 months later. We didn?t need a committee just a spirit to try and make life a little easier for ourselves. Our nearest other blanco is around a kilometer away and we hardly ever see him. So yes that is another type of immigrant, he likes what he has seen here and likes the idea of retiring here away from other blancos with their public ?do good? committees, juntas etc but helps where he can with what the local community wants and NO I can?t help with the local LT roads. The attitude of some blancos makes me think of appartheid without the cruelty. Yes, now and again I enjoy catching up with other blancos on what is happening elsewhere but I do wish they?d stop finding people to criticise. Sorry I do go on don?t I, so shoot me down in flames if you want, I went to English Public School so it won?t upset me.

 

[MikeFisher]

agreement all over Granca,
there are so many different kinds of expats around,
i could not say i like them or hate them as one unit, because they are different.
there is a bunch of them i like and sometimes hang out with them,
there is a HUGE crowd of them i don't evene ask for their names or what they do or where exactly they live, i just meet them at the supermarket/street/bar/beach and i am right away not very interested in knowing more about them.
people are different, yes,
they come from very different countries/histories/cultures aso, yes,
i prefer Dominican neighbours.
happy weekend
Mike

 

[Lambada]

It's beginning to look like those expats who experience fewer neighbourhood issues are those who live either in predominantly Dominican neighbourhoods or in mixed neighbourhoods with a good proportion of Dominican residents.........

Fair? Or am I displaying my own biases? :cheeky:

 

[LindseyKaufman]

I don't know, Lambada. My neighborhood is a mix of nationalities and an eclectic community. It is not a planned community, like some here on the North Coast. There are empty, overgrown lots like in La Mulatta. We are not completely walled in. One side that is unwalled borders on a finca, where intruders have easy access. Some of the homes here are old, some newly built. Some are crumbling to the ground. Some are unfinished. And some are state-of-the-art. Some residents support the neighborhood spirit, some pay guard fees, some don't. That is all okay.

The difference might be that we have a good portion of young families who live here year round. They know that they are here for the duration, so they work to make the best for their children and themselves.

We are also neighborly. People walk the neighborhood in the evenings and we walk to the gate and say hi. I don't even know the names of the people with whom I talk at the gate, but they are my neighbors. I know where they live.

Some Dominicans live here in my community, but honestly, I can't say how many or what percent. Maybe I have become a bit color/culture blind. If I introduce you to someone and you ask their nationality, I can tell you. But to put my neighbors into groups and give you numbers....I have no idea.

Oh, we do have issues that concern us. Heavy trucks destroying our road which we repair with our own blood, sweat and tears. Viscous dogs running loose. High turnover of security guards. Lack of funds to pay neighborhood bills. But, we somehow work it our together. Instead of complaining, we work for solutions. Last week, we even did a fund raiser dinner dance to help raise funds so our neighborhood would have a lighted and paved beach access, as opposed to hiking through an overgrown lot.

It's not a perfect community. Maybe would not appeal to high end buyers. But for us who live here, it works.

Lindsey

 

[LindseyKaufman]

I
We call them misfits and they are the ones we hear complaining abut things all the time and it is never their fault.

I don't know about them being misfits, but I do think every community has this type of person. They take pleasure in complaining. It's how the neighborhood responds (or not) to the complainers that may make a difference.