Granite countertop advice

[rhanson1]

I am in the process of renovating my kitchen and I need some recommendations on granite countertop fabricators. Yesterday I traveled to Santiago to visit two different fabricators - one came highly recommended by my neighbor, and the other was highly recommended by numerous postings on DR1. The first one was a bust. They were clearly pushing quartz or quartize countertops and had very little to offer for granite.

The second one had a nice showroom and a very helpful salesperson. They had at least 40 granite samples on display but they had material in stock for only 7 or 8. And of the 7 or 8 selections, there were really only 2 or 3 colors that could be considered. So I was a little disappointed in the available selection.

But more importantly I'm confused by what they told me about the granite thickness that they use. I confess to knowing very little about granite countertops, but everything that I read online says most good quality countertops are 3 cm. thick. And that's what I have in my house in the States. I'm reading that 2 cm. thick granite can be used IF you install plywood underneath for support, and IF you don't mind having laminated edges to mimic extra thickness on the edges. I have seen some granite countertops with laminated edges where the seams are nearly indistinguishable, and others with laminated edges where the seams stick out like a sore thumb and look ridiculous. So it seems like a roll of the dice for the edges if you use 2 cm. thick granite.

But more importantly than the edges, the fabricator that I met with said that they use 2 cm. thick granite for nearly all their countertops and they never install plywood underneath. EVERYTHING that I read online says that 2 cm. thick underlayment must be beefed up with plywood underlayment to provide the necessary strength on unsupported spans such as above the dishwasher or around the sink area. I'm reading that this is not just a recommendation - it is a requirement. The fabricator in Santiago told me that I could install a plywood underlayment myself if it made me more comfortable. The problem with that is that I have an undercounter mounted sink, so plywood underlayment would not work because the plywood edge would be exposed around the perimeter of the sink.

So the obvious solution to all these concerns is to simply use 3 cm. granite. But nobody here seems to stock it. The fabricator that I met with had only one 3 cm. granite selection with a weird color. Are there any recommendations out there?

 

[Northern Coast Diver]

I am in the process of renovating my kitchen and I need some recommendations on granite countertop fabricators. Yesterday I traveled to Santiago to visit two different fabricators - one came highly recommended by my neighbor, and the other was highly recommended by numerous postings on DR1. The first one was a bust. They were clearly pushing quartz or quartize countertops and had very little to offer for granite.

The second one had a nice showroom and a very helpful salesperson. They had at least 40 granite samples on display but they had material in stock for only 7 or 8. And of the 7 or 8 selections, there were really only 2 or 3 colors that could be considered. So I was a little disappointed in the available selection.

But more importantly I'm confused by what they told me about the granite thickness that they use. I confess to knowing very little about granite countertops, but everything that I read online says most good quality countertops are 3 cm. thick. And that's what I have in my house in the States. I'm reading that 2 cm. thick granite can be used IF you install plywood underneath for support, and IF you don't mind having laminated edges to mimic extra thickness on the edges. I have seen some granite countertops with laminated edges where the seams are nearly indistinguishable, and others with laminated edges where the seams stick out like a sore thumb and look ridiculous. So it seems like a roll of the dice for the edges if you use 2 cm. thick granite.

But more importantly than the edges, the fabricator that I met with said that they use 2 cm. thick granite for nearly all their countertops and they never install plywood underneath. EVERYTHING that I read online says that 2 cm. thick underlayment must be beefed up with plywood underlayment to provide the necessary strength on unsupported spans such as above the dishwasher or around the sink area. I'm reading that this is not just a recommendation - it is a requirement. The fabricator in Santiago told me that I could install a plywood underlayment myself if it made me more comfortable. The problem with that is that I have an undercounter mounted sink, so plywood underlayment would not work because the plywood edge would be exposed around the perimeter of the sink.

So the obvious solution to all these concerns is to simply use 3 cm. granite. But nobody here seems to stock it. The fabricator that I met with had only one 3 cm. granite selection with a weird color. Are there any recommendations out there?

The solution is, to cut the sink hole in the plywood large enough to accommodate the under counter sink. You do not need to support every inch of the granite. Good luck!

 

[rhanson1]

The solution is, to cut the sink hole in the plywood large enough to accommodate the under counter sink. You do not need to support every inch of the granite. Good luck!

I understand that every inch of the granite does not require support. But everything that I read online from the experts says that open unsupported spans such as those above a 24-inch wide dishwasher are simply too long for 2 cm. thick granite. Thus there would be significant risk of the granite cracking if any significant weight or load was placed on the countertop. All the experts online are in agreement on that. And cutting a hole in the plywood does not solve the sink problem due to the fact that the edges of the cutout are exposed with an undercounter mounted sink. Thus the perimeter of the countertop at the top of the sink would show a sandwich of 2 cm. of finished granite on top of layer of raw plywood before reaching the flanges of the sink. Not good.

 

[melphis]

Our DR place had the 2cm granite. The only thing I worried about was the bar had about an 18" overhang that ran for about 10 feet. The sides where both braced so I bought some decorative "L" brackets and placed them strategically under the overhang.

They looked good and if anyone but a lot of weight on the bar it would hold it. The biggest cabinet I had in the kitchen was 36" wide and that was the sink. The rest were 30" or less so there was plenty of support and did not need plywood.

The seems where exceptionally good and had no problems in the 12 years we owned it. Good luck with your build.

 

[melphis]

I understand that every inch of the granite does not require support. But everything that I read online from the experts says that open unsupported spans such as those above a 24-inch wide dishwasher are simply too long for 2 cm. thick granite. Thus there would be significant risk of the granite cracking if any significant weight or load was placed on the countertop. All the experts online are in agreement on that. And cutting a hole in the plywood does not solve the sink problem due to the fact that the edges of the cutout are exposed with an undercounter mounted sink. Thus the perimeter of the countertop at the top of the sink would show a sandwich of 2 cm. of finished granite on top of layer of raw plywood before reaching the flanges of the sink. Not good.

If you mount the sink to the granite first (undermount) then set it on the precut plywood you eliminate that problem.
Good luck explaining it.

 

[Northern Coast Diver]

I understand that every inch of the granite does not require support. But everything that I read online from the experts says that open unsupported spans such as those above a 24-inch wide dishwasher are simply too long for 2 cm. thick granite. Thus there would be significant risk of the granite cracking if any significant weight or load was placed on the countertop. All the experts online are in agreement on that. And cutting a hole in the plywood does not solve the sink problem due to the fact that the edges of the cutout are exposed with an undercounter mounted sink. Thus the perimeter of the countertop at the top of the sink would show a sandwich of 2 cm. of finished granite on top of layer of raw plywood before reaching the flanges of the sink. Not good.

Sorry you didn't understand the first time. You install 3/4 inch plywood on top of the cabinets. The plywood does not extend beyond the front of the cabinets. The sink gets attached directly to the granite. The granite w/sink gets glued to the plywood that has a hole large enough to receive the mounted sink. The doubled front edge of the granite hides the plywood. No plywood is visible at the sink/counter joint. When it's available I use marine plywood under the granite because of it's water resistance.

 

[Northern Coast Diver]

The counter normally comes from the installer/stone cutter with the sink attached. Marine plywood is available in Santo Domingo.

 

[malko]

I see you did your research !!

I can't really visualize what a " under cabinet moulded sink " is.

In my case the sink cabinet is a 4 door cabinet,maybe 150 cm or more long.
Would they not cut out the sink emplacement from the solid slab of granite ?
Then the slab of granite rests on plywood, at the back, and the structure of the cabinet at the front, no ?

Then I have a longer span of granite that runs 1 1 door cabinet- oven- 2 door cabinet-1 door cabinet-1 door cabinet, so maybe 250cm+, and again it has a piece of plywood on the back wall ( that also supports the granite on the back wall--- if you see what I mean ), and that's all. No structure .

It's been there for 12+ years , and I stand on it, if needed, to paint or clean. With no issues.
Though I might be more careful after reading your post 😄.


P.S. the " lip " at the front is double width of granite glued (?) to each other to " appear " to be 4 cm thick. The seam is no worse than the seems on the " U"s of the counter,maybe even less noticeable.

 

[mobrouser]

1/2" plywood is acceptable substrate for granite (or other) countertops and is necessary for 2cm tops.
I'm curious why you rejected quartz as a counter top?

 

[rhanson1]

1/2" plywood is acceptable substrate for granite (or other) countertops and is necessary for 2cm tops.
I'm curious why you rejected quartz as a counter top?

That's a whole other discussion. I considered quartz and I have nothing against quartz. I simply have a personal preference for the appearance of a natural stone with more depth and shine and patterns and colors than what quartz or quartzite offers. But that's just me. Many people prefer the appearance of quartz.

 

[rhanson1]

Sorry you didn't understand the first time. You install 3/4 inch plywood on top of the cabinets. The plywood does not extend beyond the front of the cabinets. The sink gets attached directly to the granite. The granite w/sink gets glued to the plywood that has a hole large enough to receive the mounted sink. The doubled front edge of the granite hides the plywood. No plywood is visible at the sink/counter joint. When it's available I use marine plywood under the granite because of it's water resistance.

OK, I understand now, and I agree that solves the undercounter sink edge problem. But I still don't understand why neither of the granite fabricators that I met with think that plywood underlayment is necessary for 2 cm. granite, nor does it explain why none of the large fabricators that I met with offer a selection of 3 cm. granite. That's the norm where I come from. I understand that 3 cm. granite is obviously going to be more expensive than 2 cm. granite, and that's okay with me. I would rather pay now to have it done right rather than have an accident later. And the post from mobrouser confirms that plywood underlayment is necessary for 2 cm. granite - exactly what every online granite fabricator says. And I certainly have no interest in going to Santo Domingo to buy marine plywood. 3 cm. granite solves all these problems - the support issue, the undermount sink issue, and the possible unsightly laminated edge issue around the outside perimeter of the countertop. I was hoping that someone in this forum might be able to point me in the direction of a granite fabricator who stocks 3 cm granite.

 

[rhanson1]

I see you did your research !!

I can't really visualize what a " under cabinet moulded sink " is.

In my case the sink cabinet is a 4 door cabinet,maybe 150 cm or more long.
Would they not cut out the sink emplacement from the solid slab of granite ?
Then the slab of granite rests on plywood, at the back, and the structure of the cabinet at the front, no ?

Then I have a longer span of granite that runs 1 1 door cabinet- oven- 2 door cabinet-1 door cabinet-1 door cabinet, so maybe 250cm+, and again it has a piece of plywood on the back wall ( that also supports the granite on the back wall--- if you see what I mean ), and that's all. No structure .

It's been there for 12+ years , and I stand on it, if needed, to paint or clean. With no issues.
Though I might be more careful after reading your post 😄.


P.S. the " lip " at the front is double width of granite glued (?) to each other to " appear " to be 4 cm thick. The seam is no worse than the seems on the " U"s of the counter,maybe even less noticeable.

I see you did your research !!

I can't really visualize what a " under cabinet moulded sink " is.

In my case the sink cabinet is a 4 door cabinet,maybe 150 cm or more long.
Would they not cut out the sink emplacement from the solid slab of granite ?
Then the slab of granite rests on plywood, at the back, and the structure of the cabinet at the front, no ?

Then I have a longer span of granite that runs 1 1 door cabinet- oven- 2 door cabinet-1 door cabinet-1 door cabinet, so maybe 250cm+, and again it has a piece of plywood on the back wall ( that also supports the granite on the back wall--- if you see what I mean ), and that's all. No structure .

It's been there for 12+ years , and I stand on it, if needed, to paint or clean. With no issues.
Though I might be more careful after reading your post 😄.


P.S. the " lip " at the front is double width of granite glued (?) to each other to " appear " to be 4 cm thick. The seam is no worse than the seems on the " U"s of the counter,maybe even less noticeable.

I see you did your research !!

I can't really visualize what a " under cabinet moulded sink " is.

In my case the sink cabinet is a 4 door cabinet,maybe 150 cm or more long.
Would they not cut out the sink emplacement from the solid slab of granite ?
Then the slab of granite rests on plywood, at the back, and the structure of the cabinet at the front, no ?

Then I have a longer span of granite that runs 1 1 door cabinet- oven- 2 door cabinet-1 door cabinet-1 door cabinet, so maybe 250cm+, and again it has a piece of plywood on the back wall ( that also supports the granite on the back wall--- if you see what I mean ), and that's all. No structure .

It's been there for 12+ years , and I stand on it, if needed, to paint or clean. With no issues.
Though I might be more careful after reading your post 😄.


P.S. the " lip " at the front is double width of granite glued (?) to each other to " appear " to be 4 cm thick. The seam is no worse than the seems on the " U"s of the counter,maybe even less noticeable.

FYI malko, here is an image of an undercounter mounted sink. Note the 3 cm. thick edges.

 

[rhanson1]

https://www.morningtobed.com/wp-con...all-undermount-sink-on-granite-countertop.jpg

 

[Northern Coast Diver]

OK, I understand now, and I agree that solves the undercounter sink edge problem. But I still don't understand why neither of the granite fabricators that I met with think that plywood underlayment is necessary for 2 cm. granite, nor does it explain why none of the large fabricators that I met with offer a selection of 3 cm. granite. That's the norm where I come from. I understand that 3 cm. granite is obviously going to be more expensive than 2 cm. granite, and that's okay with me. I would rather pay now to have it done right rather than have an accident later. And the post from mobrouser confirms that plywood underlayment is necessary for 2 cm. granite - exactly what every online granite fabricator says. And I certainly have no interest in going to Santo Domingo to buy marine plywood. 3 cm. granite solves all these problems - the support issue, the undermount sink issue, and the possible unsightly laminated edge issue around the outside perimeter of the countertop. I was hoping that someone in this forum might be able to point me in the direction of a granite fabricator who stocks 3 cm granite.

In that case, there is a better selection in Santo Domingo. I have seen 3cm granite here on the island. I hope someone can help with info from the capital.

 

[rhanson1]

OK, I give up. I'll use quartz instead of granite countertops if I can find a fabricator with 3 cm thick material. Either granite or quartz is fine if I can just have it 3 cm thick which is the norm in most of the rest of the world. 2 cm. thick material is going to require plywood underneath which makes no sense due to moisture and other problems. 3 cm. thick material solves all kinds of problems such as the unsupported span above dishwashers and the cutouts for cooktops and sinks. It also eliminates the need for the phony looking laminated edges. Anybody? Come on, somebody must be able to point me to a fabricator that uses 3 cm. material. And suggesting that I can probably find somebody in Santo Domingo is not really a practical solution for a gringo living on the north coast with limited Spanish language skills and no familiarity with Santo Domingo. Desperate for recommendations.

 

[zoomzx11]

That's a whole other discussion. I considered quartz and I have nothing against quartz. I simply have a personal preference for the appearance of a natural stone with more depth and shine and patterns and colors than what quartz or quartzite offers. But that's just me. Many people prefer the appearance of quartz.

If you end up with granite it has to be sealed when installed and then resealed on a regular basis or it will develop unsightly stains.
Against my views my wife insisted on granite and since its her kitchen and I like being married I shut up.
Installer never sealed it and shortly after us he went out of business.
Wife's solution was to tear it out and replace it with more granite.
It was hard for me to keep quiet for the second round but I managed.
Good luck

 

[rhanson1]

If you end up with granite it has to be sealed when installed and then resealed on a regular basis or it will develop unsightly stains.
Against my views my wife insisted on granite and since its her kitchen and I like being married I shut up.
Installer never sealed it and shortly after us he went out of business.
Wife's solution was to tear it out and replace it with more granite.
It was hard for me to keep quiet for the second round but I managed.
Good luck

Quartz is looking better to me all the time. If somebody can offer a reasonable selection of 3 cm. thick quartz, that would seal the deal for me.

 

[reilleyp]

There is a granite mine in Samana. They cut it out in 4 foot blocks, so I imagine they can cut it in any thickness you want.