Haiti is a failed state in irreversible decline

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Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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"Haiti will perpetually remained failed".

Those words are as as illogical as my hope.
I have no need to prove you wrong.
Because you cannot predict the future for all time with certainty.
Past does not predict the future.
In Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or investments.
If that was the case you would have used your skills to become rich beyond all imagination.
Then in that case you would not be spending your time making posts trying to prove something that can't be proved.
And having a discussion with someone you describe as illogical.
You are welcome to your opinion.
As we all are.
Simply recognize that is all it is.

I continue to have hope for Haiti.
 
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Yourmaninvegas

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After reading the last few post, hope is not a good strategy.
Who said hope was a strategy?
And anyone that has ever been in a struggle knows that believing that it can be overcome is the key to everything.
Like being down a set.
5-0 in the second set.
And serving in the game and you are down 0 - 40 with a fault on your first serve.
You reach down inside you and hit that second serve like it was your first cause you have nothing to lose.
You are still in the game.
I have been there and I won that game.
Then I won that set 5-7.
Then I won the match. 6-1, 5-7, 4-6.

I continue to have hope for Haiti
 

jd426

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Dec 12, 2009
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Prove me wrong. You never will be able to do so. And NOT for the reasons you mention about proving negatives.
Haiti will simply not get better. But hopefully it can be controlled so the DR does not suffer from it.

The rest of your argument is completely irrelevant to the perpetually failed situation in Haiti. But they are "nice" words.

Haiti will perpetually remained failed.

Your hopes are misguided with respect to Haiti. Hope is Illogical as you point out, I would add delusional with respect to Haiti.
A logical person would realize that hope will not change anything., To predict the future, one needs the past as a guide.
I don't predict the future for much else in this world, I just see the past as continuing in Haiti.

It would take a Massive Focus on EDUCATION... Schools Built , and Financed .. Massive , and THEN a complete Generation at LEAST to make any significant changes .
Haiti is at this point completely HOPELESS... It is a perfect example of " no amount of Money can fix this " now even TRILLION DOLLARS could magically do it .
At least 20- 30 years in TIME are required for starters . A whole new Generation with a completely different "we can do it, and we have the Education to back it up " Mindset . .
The Previous Posters " Logic " makes absolutely no sense at all .
 

jd426

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Dec 12, 2009
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"Haiti will perpetually remained failed".

Those words are as as illogical as my hope.
I have no need to prove you wrong.
Because you cannot predict the future for all time with certainty.
Past does not predict the future.
In Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or investments.
If that was the case you would have used your skills to become rich beyond all imagination.
Then in that case you would not be spending your time making posts trying to prove something that can't be proved.
And having a discussion with someone you describe as illogical.
You are welcome to your opinion.
As we all are.
Simply recognize that is all it is.

I continue to have hope for Haiti.

Hope you LIVE LONG ENOUGH to SEE it ... ( you will have a very long life then)
 
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ricpaq

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May 21, 2015
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It would take a Massive Focus on EDUCATION... Schools Built , and Financed .. Massive , and THEN a complete Generation at LEAST to make any significant changes .
Haiti is at this point completely HOPELESS... It is a perfect example of " no amount of Money can fix this " now even TRILLION DOLLARS could magically do it .
At least 20- 30 years in TIME are required for starters . A whole new Generation with a completely different "we can do it, and we have the Education to back it up " Mindset . .
The Previous Posters " Logic " makes absolutely no sense at all .
But Haiti definitely don't need any more religion or missionaries.
 

NanSanPedro

Nickel with tin plating
Apr 12, 2019
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I understand both sides of this debate. Because I have skin in the game, I have some of the hope that our friend Vegas portrays. It's not blind hope either.

The country as a whole can't be helped at this point in time. I totally agree with that. It would be stupid and futile to give one demi-gourd to the Haitian government.

That does not mean of course that we can't help some. Private initiatives for micro-lending and study grants should be encouraged. Working with Haitian individuals you can trust is very important. Some will steal. I understand that and accept that risk. But others will take advantage of the opportunity to pull themselves out of poverty. As Paul says, "I have become all things to all people that by all means I might save some."
 

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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"Haiti will perpetually remained failed".

Those words are as as illogical as my hope.
I have no need to prove you wrong.
Because you cannot predict the future for all time with certainty.
Past does not predict the future.
In Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or investments.
If that was the case you would have used your skills to become rich beyond all imagination.
Then in that case you would not be spending your time making posts trying to prove something that can't be proved.
And having a discussion with someone you describe as illogical.
You are welcome to your opinion.
As we all are.
Simply recognize that is all it is.

I continue to have hope for Haiti.
There is no hope.

None but yours and a little from NanSanPedro, it would seem.

There is NOTHING that will be done that will help Haiti.
 

Yourmaninvegas

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2016
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It would take a Massive Focus on EDUCATION... Schools Built , and Financed .. Massive , and THEN a complete Generation at LEAST to make any significant changes .
Haiti is at this point completely HOPELESS... It is a perfect example of " no amount of Money can fix this " now even TRILLION DOLLARS could magically do it .
At least 20- 30 years in TIME are required for starters . A whole new Generation with a completely different "we can do it, and we have the Education to back it up " Mindset . .
The Previous Posters " Logic " makes absolutely no sense at all .
This post makes my point.
Windeguy has taken the position and I quote: "Haiti will perpetually remained failed".
And here you are saying "20 - 30 years TIME are required for staters"
20 - 30 is not a perpetual time period.
So you are right.
Windeguy's logic makes absolutely no sense at all.
 

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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This post makes my point.
Windeguy has taken the position and I quote: "Haiti will perpetually remained failed".
And here you are saying "20 - 30 years TIME are required for staters"
20 - 30 is not a perpetual time period.
So you are right.
Windeguy's logic makes absolutely no sense at all.
Yes, I do make sense. That is because no one is going to do anything to help. So that 20 to 30 years might as well be infinity. It makes no sense assuming something is going to start that change for the better and that in 30 years things will be somehow better. It's been tried and failed. No one is going to waste that time and effort.
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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There is no hope.

None but yours and a little from NanSanPedro, it would seem.

There is NOTHING that will be done that will help Haiti.
You have done a excellent moon walk from your previous comment of: "Haiti will perpetually remained failed"
NanSanPedro and I will keep hope alive.
 

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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You have done a excellent moon walk from your previous comment of: "Haiti will perpetually remained failed"
NanSanPedro and I will keep hope alive.
I am not back stepping at all. Haiti will remain perpetually failed. Prove me wrong. Who is going to change that failure to success?

Nobody. Hope doesn't do the job.
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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Yes, I do make sense. That is because no one is going to do anything to help. So that 20 to 30 years might as well be infinity. It makes no sense assuming something is going to start that change for the better and that in 30 years things will be somehow better. It's been tried and failed. No one is going to waste that time and effort.
I understand that you make sense in your own mind.
And that you seem to enjoy expressing your opinion about Haiti.
Your opinion is just that.
But it remains a fact that you cannot predict the future.
If you could you would be rich beyond your wildest dreams.
And no one in this thread as taken issue with you over the current condition of Haiti.

"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing." - no one seems to have figured out exactly who said it. But I like the quote.
 

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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I understand that you make sense in your own mind.
And that you seem to enjoy expressing your opinion about Haiti.
Your opinion is just that.
But it remains a fact that you cannot predict the future.
If you could you would be rich beyond your wildest dreams.
And no one in this thread as taken issue with you over the current condition of Haiti.

"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing." - no one seems to have figured out exactly who said it. But I like the quote.
It is not about general predictions of the future to become rich.

The only future I an predict with accuracy is Haiti's. Why would there be any hope at all?
I recognize there is no rational and available solution to fix Haiti.
What is your hope based upon? Magic? Divine Intervention?
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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I am not back stepping at all. Haiti will remain perpetually failed. Prove me wrong. Who is going to change that failure to success?

Nobody. Hope doesn't do the job.
1. I don't have to prove your opinion wrong. It is your opinion. Understood. I simply disagree with it.
2. I do not know who is going to change failure into success. But like the way this poster thinks:

"It would take a Massive Focus on EDUCATION... Schools Built , and Financed .. Massive , and THEN a complete Generation at LEAST to make any significant changes .At least 20- 30 years in TIME are required for starters . A whole new Generation with a completely different "we can do it, and we have the Education to back it up Mindset"

3. Past does not predict the future. A brief review of world history when it comes to governments will show that.
4. Hope never does the job alone. But hope does provide the mental and spiritual energy to stay in the fight.
 

windeguy

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Jul 10, 2004
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1. I don't have to prove your opinion wrong. It is your opinion. Understood. I simply disagree with it.
Why do you think there is any hope?
2. I do not know who is going to change failure into success. But like the way this poster thinks:

"It would take a Massive Focus on EDUCATION... Schools Built , and Financed .. Massive , and THEN a complete Generation at LEAST to make any significant changes .At least 20- 30 years in TIME are required for starters . A whole new Generation with a completely different "we can do it, and we have the Education to back it up Mindset"
Why do think this is even in the realm of possibility?

3. Past does not predict the future. A brief review of world history when it comes to governments will show that.
The past failures in Haiti should be enough to discourage any one who can think rationally to try again with respect to Haiti. It isn't so much about predicting the future as it is having common sense not to do something with zero hope of success.
4. Hope never does the job alone. But hope does provide the mental and spiritual energy to stay in the fight.
Hope and spirituality. I am not allowed to comment, but carry on. Many have tried an failed who thought they could make a difference.
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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It is not about general predictions of the future to become rich.

The only future I an predict with accuracy is Haiti's. Why would there be any hope at all?
I recognize there is no rational and available solution to fix Haiti.
What is your hope based upon? Magic? Divine Intervention?
You can state your opinion on the future of Haiti with accuracy.
You see your opinion is claim that cannot be proven.
Because you cannot predict the future of the markets, Haiti or even the next day of your own life.

What is hope?

"Hope is an optimistic state of mind that is based on an expectation of positive outcomes with respect to events and circumstances in one's life or the world at large."

I am and will remain a hopeful person for many things that might appear hopeless in my life or the world at large.
We just happen to be discussing Haiti at this time.
 
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