Haiti is the reason the unification with the DR isn’t more advanced?

NALs

NALs

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Interesting interview with Rebeca Ortíz that first was made public on yesterday. She was the person that presented the Haitian presidents to Dominican presidents (starting with Dr Joaquín Balaguer, in fact he was the one that picked her for her role with Haiti) and important people in Dominican public life (like Gen. Barreras). She said many things (some interestings) including that it has been due to Haiti that the unification hasn’t been stronger, because this is really something that came from the USA (mostly the Clintons.) The Haitian government simply doesn’t want for Haiti to disappear.

She has been many times in Haiti and has good relations with many Haitian ex-presidents (I guess now would be ex-prime ministers) and with several members of Haiti’s elite, some of which she smuggled into the DR in order to protect them from the gangs.


PS. She also mentions something that really wasn’t known. She has a good frienship relationship with ex-Haitian president Aristide. He was the first Haitian president that to the international community declared Dominicans and the DR to be racists. This didn’t sit well with Dr Balaguer (whom all of them agree he wasn’t racist but was very classist) because he was very protective of the DR. Aristide was invited to meet with Dr Balaguer at the National Palace. First, Dr Balaguer sent a taxi to pick up Aristide at the airport (notice a taxi, not what is sent for a president; that was the first sign of displeasure with what Aristide had done.) Then he was made to wait for his turn to meet Dr Balaguer up to 3 hours. Finally, someone went to him to tell him that Dr Balaguer wasn’t going to meet with him on that day. Yaoh… 😳

PS2. From what they say, it appears she will be invited again because there is much that she was not able to say in this interview.
 
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CristoRey

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How many wars have these two countries fought?
How many were started by Haiti?
 
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windeguy

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eafanduiz said:
The "idea" of unifying both countries has been floated since I was a child, I"m in my 50s now. This has been opposed for different people, for different reasons at different points in time.
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It is an idea that shoud be "sunk" without further discussion.
 
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NALs

NALs

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eafanduiz said:
The "idea" of unifying both countries has been floated since I was a child, I"m in my 50s now. This has been opposed for different people, for different reasons at different points in time.
Click to expand...
The major difference between before 2010-ish and afterwards is that before it was mostly held as a paranoia of some (and racism), but now this is being taken more seriously by the people (no question given the sharp increase of Haitians in recent years.) The shift that I’m noticing is that most Dominicans that think this is a problem think the culprit is Haiti itself (don’t need to scratch your head to figure out why this is the first thought people jump to, just look at the history, it’s as clear as gyn), rather the idea the issue is Haiti is shifting to the blame falling on actors from outside Hispaniola. That actually will benefit the Haitians since if most of the defenders of a unification are from outside the island and not island Dominicans or Haitians, it will lead for Dominicans and Haitians to together make it clear to those outside Hispaniola that it isn’t an option from both sides.
 
NALs

NALs

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Tom F. said:
Balaguer would steal his elections while Aristide won by popular vote.
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That’s the belief by some, but there was actually no such thing. Peña Gómez simply never accepted that he lost because he didn’t get the necessary amount of votes. Hipólito Mejía (PRD at that time) also claimed “fraud” in one of the election bids against Leonel but claim he was going to let the chip stay where they fell (lol; no mention of fraud when he won in 2000, woukd it had been like that if he had lost?) The point is while Peña Gómez was alive and leader of the PRD and Hipólito Mejía too, they both continue to claim fraud every time they lost with the exception that Peña Gómez went ahead to contest the elections while Hipólito didn’t. With that said, Peña Gómez was elected as mayor of Santo Domingo (I guess he would had claimed fraud and contested it too had he lost) while Hipólito never ran for the mayor position of any city (though his daughter is the current mayor of Santo Domingo.)

Hipólito was also a close friend of Peña Gómez. In one interview after Peña Gómez had years deade he revealed that one of the issues he thought was wrong with Peña Gómez is that not only he didn’t like to recognize he was of Haitian origin as both his biological parents were Haitians, but he also didn’t liked it when other people brought it up. I guess if he could he would had claimed fraud on that too.

Balaguer doesn’t have a legacy of himself being corrupt, if anything that he was very frugal (in his personal life and governing the country, before the PRD got into power in 1978 and its government began to take out international loans galore, Balaguer didn’t like to get loans. The Dominican government did most of its projects with funds that the Dominican government actually had and the overcost of each project tended to be the minimum. After 1978 that wasn’t entirely possible because of all the new debt the PRD put the Dominican government in (not to mention more than a few PRD politicians had miraculous personal economic improvements when they were in power, they didn’t buy yipetas then because they weren’t as popular as now. It has alwas “been a mystery” where the money came for all this new personal economic improvement!)

Peña Gómez was once blamed by the US as going to the US and then back to the DR with drug money. As the old saying “when you can hear the river, it’s because it has rocks” or something like that. What Peña Gómez said that it was nonsense is what stuck, but it’s also true that Balaguer was never blamed for taking drug money by any US administration. Why would the US make such a claim on one and not the other when they were deemed rivals of each other?
 
JD Jones

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Balaguer sure loved to give away land to his closest supporters and staff as rewards for loyalty.

Many of his generals have very big land holdings.

I was friends with one of his escorts and over the years he was given 14 apartments, many of them penthouses.
 
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Tom F.

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NALs said:
That’s the belief by some, but there was actually no such thing. Peña Gómez simply never accepted that he lost because he didn’t get the necessary amount of votes. Hipólito Mejía (PRD at that time) also claimed “fraud” in one of the election bids against Leonel but claim he was going to let the chip stay where they fell (lol; no mention of fraud when he won in 2000, woukd it had been like that if he had lost?) The point is while Peña Gómez was alive and leader of the PRD and Hipólito Mejía too, they both continue to claim fraud every time they lost with the exception that Peña Gómez went ahead to contest the elections while Hipólito didn’t. With that said, Peña Gómez was elected as mayor of Santo Domingo (I guess he would had claimed fraud and contested it too had he lost) while Hipólito never ran for the mayor position of any city (though his daughter is the current mayor of Santo Domingo.)

Hipólito was also a close friend of Peña Gómez. In one interview after Peña Gómez had years deade he revealed that one of the issues he thought was wrong with Peña Gómez is that not only he didn’t like to recognize he was of Haitian origin as both his biological parents were Haitians, but he also didn’t liked it when other people brought it up. I guess if he could he would had claimed fraud on that too.

Balaguer doesn’t have a legacy of himself being corrupt, if anything that he was very frugal (in his personal life and governing the country, before the PRD got into power in 1978 and its government began to take out international loans galore, Balaguer didn’t like to get loans. The Dominican government did most of its projects with funds that the Dominican government actually had and the overcost of each project tended to be the minimum. After 1978 that wasn’t entirely possible because of all the new debt the PRD put the Dominican government in (not to mention more than a few PRD politicians had miraculous personal economic improvements when they were in power, they didn’t buy yipetas then because they weren’t as popular as now. It has alwas “been a mystery” where the money came for all this new personal economic improvement!)

Peña Gómez was once blamed by the US as going to the US and then back to the DR with drug money. As the old saying “when you can hear the river, it’s because it has rocks” or something like that. What Peña Gómez said that it was nonsense is what stuck, but it’s also true that Balaguer was never blamed for taking drug money by any US administration. Why would the US make such a claim on one and not the other when they were deemed rivals of each other?
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Very interesting reading. I remember going to hear Juan Bolivar Diaz speak at City College about his book Trauma Electoral 1994. It clear states how Balaguer stole the election and then agreed to only stay 2 years instead of 4. They ploy for the Reformistas was always to align themselves with the PLD when the PRD was dominant and with PRD when the PLD dominated. Now all the political parties are basically the same with the Reformistas being limited to Dajabon. Also, when Balaguer ended his twelve years, the US forced him to step down, which lead to Guzman, Malluta, and Jorge Blanco. Juan Bosch really allowed Balaguer to return when he didn't support Pena Gomez. I heard about Pena Gomez getting drug money from the Dominican cocaine dealers in East New York. None of them are honest.
 
bachata

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eafanduiz said:
The "idea" of unifying both countries has been floated since I was a child, I"m in my 50s now. This has been opposed for different people, for different reasons at different points in time.
Click to expand...
Little by little is taking place, 40% elementary school students are Haitian kids in Dominican schools, 60% new born in Dominican public hospital are of Haitian mothers.
Everywhere you go in DR you see a big number of Haitians and a lot of them doesn't looks poor.

JJ
 
bob saunders

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bachata said:
Little by little is taking place, 40% elementary school students are Haitian kids in Dominican schools, 60% new born in Dominican public hospital are of Haitian mothers.
Everywhere you go in DR you see a big number of Haitians and a lot of them doesn't looks poor.

JJ
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Just had a ceremony yesterday for the most outstanding grade six student (from last year) for each school in the district. There were two Haitian students that were selected as the top students in their school. In total about twenty girls and five or six boys.
 
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bachata

bachata

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bob saunders said:
Just had a ceremony yesterday for the most outstanding grade six student (from last year) for each school in the district. There were two Haitian students that were selected as the top students in their school. In total about twenty girls and five or six boys.
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Good luck, hopefully those students won't be removed from schools by the Dominican civil population.

JJ
 
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Chellow

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bachata said:
Little by little is taking place, 40% elementary school students are Haitian kids in Dominican schools, 60% new born in Dominican public hospital are of Haitian mothers.
Everywhere you go in DR you see a big number of Haitians and a lot of them doesn't looks poor.

JJ
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"We need to consider to send all Haitian back, or unify the two nations. Otherwise, we risk a future civil conflict with a marginalized population in the Dominican Republic facing limited rights. This situation is unfair to both Haitians seeking a better life and Dominicans who struggle to compete with Haitian workers willing to accept much lower wages."
 
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