Haiti poised for Civil War?

NanSanPedro

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Apr 12, 2019
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I agree unfortunately, DR and Haiti will have to form a confederacy. No wall is going to stop the Haitian Masses from going in to DR. DR is wasting too much money and resource on Haiti now.

I have no love for Haiti, unlike many, I know our history, I know Haitians have killed my ancestors and how they have wiped out about 30% of DR population in the 1800’s. How they have taken our land, now (Hinche).

I also know they are the least of our bothers, and know what we are called to do by Christ. I recall at a hearing in DR a Haitian woman crying not to be deported, cursing that she was born Haitian. I was sitting by an elderly Haitian couple at an airport and seen Christ in there eye’s, no words passed between us but I knew them.

I ask, can’t we figure a way to help before it becomes a bigger problem for DR and the innocence in Haiti suffer too much.

Which one(s) of your ancestors was killed by a Haitian?
 

jd426

Gold
Dec 12, 2009
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I am No Expert on Haiti, but one thing for sure ..throwing money at it wont help the People . it will be STOLEN 100% of the time ..and never reach (trickle down to) the Needy/ Poor..
 

Chellow

Member
Jul 27, 2006
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Which one(s) of your ancestors was killed by a Haitian?
In 1805 Haitian's killed about 25K Dominicans, that’s about 1 of about 3 Dominicans living at that time. The massacre happened especially in area of Santiago and Moca. I have traced my family to that area at that time, with one of three been killed I'm sure we all have to lose someone.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
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Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
I am No Expert on Haiti, but one thing for sure ..throwing money at it wont help the People . it will be STOLEN 100% of the time ..and never reach (trickle down to) the Needy/ Poor..


Hence why it needs an external administration from the eastern side of the island.
Only a country with a vested interest in Haiti can get it moving again.

But it needs legitimacy from Haitians and Dominicans alike. The need to wipe out the external debt of both nations is key to get that economy up and running.

DR has proven again and again it can lift itself up from the basement.
San Zenón destroyed Santo Domingo, it got rebuilt better and expanded.
From dictators and strongmen to democracy.
From economic disaster to best economy of CA and much of LA.
From extreme poverty to rapidly growing upper middle class.
Too many to list.
If DR did it, so too can it work for Haiti under a DR administration and constitution.
 

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Eugene_A

Banned
Feb 12, 2021
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Santo Domingo
Hence why it needs an external administration from the eastern side of the island.
Only a country with a vested interest in Haiti can get it moving again.

But it needs legitimacy from Haitians and Dominicans alike. The need to wipe out the external debt of both nations is key to get that economy up and running.

DR has proven again and again it can lift itself up from the basement.
San Zenón destroyed Santo Domingo, it got rebuilt better and expanded.
From dictators and strongmen to democracy.
From economic disaster to best economy of CA and much of LA.
From extreme poverty to rapidly growing upper middle class.
Too many to list.
If DR did it, so too can it work for Haiti under a DR administration and constitution.
DR has more important things to fix, like all garbage dumps, especially the one that brings bad smell to best neighborhoods in Santo Domingo every evening, and those close to tourist areas as well. When all problems in DR will be solved (probably in 100 years from now or more), maybe then it's time to solve problems in Haiti. But for now, just build the fence on the border, and shoot everyone jumping over it.
 
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Tarheel

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Dec 19, 2005
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It's also assuming that most Haitians would agree to being subjected to Dominican rule. That is a grave error.

Look what happened during the 2010 earthquake when the Dominican army was getting ready to send many soldiers to help in the rescues in Port-au-Prince. The then president Preval made very public his worry of having the Dominican military in Haiti and in the end, the Dominican military couldn't go past the border. There was no problem with the presence of military men from other countries, only those from the DR. Gee, what was the fear? That Dominicans might take over and rule them? Why does being ruled by their closest neighbor causes such reaction?
That's a silly question Nals, The Haitian government would have to share their spoils with Dominican officials. You have been gone too long Nals. Don't you remember how things work on the island of Hispaniola?
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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That's a silly question Nals, The Haitian government would have to share their spoils with Dominican officials. You have been gone too long Nals. Don't you remember how things work on the island of Hispaniola?
That has never been the case, but this is DR1. By the way, how is your Spanish by now? Still limited or finally fluency is the norm?

Beautiful "adornos." They were probably used for the photo op. 🧐
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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I am No Expert on Haiti, but one thing for sure ..throwing money at it wont help the People . it will be STOLEN 100% of the time ..and never reach (trickle down to) the Needy/ Poor..
The last time there was a pledge was after the earthquake in 2010. It amounted to billions of dollars and most of it never made it to Haiti. It didn't disappear because it was stolen, it simply was pledged and never done.
 
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NALs

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In 1805 Haitian's killed about 25K Dominicans, that’s about 1 of about 3 Dominicans living at that time. The massacre happened especially in area of Santiago and Moca. I have traced my family to that area at that time, with one of three been killed I'm sure we all have to lose someone.
And 2/3 of the population left for Puerto Rico, Cuba, and Venezuela. It must had been the greatest demographic destruction in Latin America, except with maybe what happened in Paraguay. There most were killed, at least with Dominicans most were alive but simply left the island.
 

Tom F.

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Jan 1, 2002
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And 2/3 of the population left for Puerto Rico, Cuba, and Venezuela. It must had been the greatest demographic destruction in Latin America, except with maybe what happened in Paraguay. There most were killed, at least with Dominicans most were alive but simply left the island.
Were they calling themselves Dominicans in 1804? Maybe they were considered Spanish.
 

Naked_Snake

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Sep 2, 2008
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Were they calling themselves Dominicans in 1804? Maybe they were considered Spanish.
Yes, but they knew they werent Spanish metropolitans. The dichotomy European/New Worlder wasn't just a thing exclusive to the British colonies, you know. Criollos in Spanish/Portuguese America were keenly aware they were something different from their cousins on the other side of the pond, and their interests went accordingly.
 
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NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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Were they calling themselves Dominicans in 1804? Maybe they were considered Spanish.
Since the 1600's it starts to appear in several documents referring to the inhabitants of the island, then to the inhabitants of the Spanish side, then to Spanish Haiti (even the independence manifiesto it mentions the Dominican people), then during the Haitian Domination, then once the DR was established as the country of the Dominican people. When it comes to the DR, the Dominican nation already existed before the Dominican Republic.

Since this thread is about Haiti, the Haitian nation was like most nationa in the world, created many years after Haiti was established as a country, not before.

Other nations continue to not have their own country. For example, the Kurds don't have a country, but they are found in parts of Turkey and Iraq, and I think parts of Syria. One of the fears during the Iraq was when the USA ended the Sadam Hussein dictatorship was that the Kurds would gain their independence by breaking away the northern part of Iraq.
 
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USA DOC

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Hence why it needs an external administration from the eastern side of the island.
Only a country with a vested interest in Haiti can get it moving again.

But it needs legitimacy from Haitians and Dominicans alike. The need to wipe out the external debt of both nations is key to get that economy up and running.

DR has proven again and again it can lift itself up from the basement.
San Zenón destroyed Santo Domingo, it got rebuilt better and expanded.
From dictators and strongmen to democracy.
From economic disaster to best economy of CA and much of LA.
From extreme poverty to rapidly growing upper middle class.
Too many to list.
If DR did it, so too can it work for Haiti under a DR administration and constitution.
"from dictators and strongmen to democracy"...........and when did this Democracy start?...And what would you call it?..........
 

bob saunders

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Jan 1, 2002
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"from dictators and strongmen to democracy"...........and when did this Democracy start?...And what would you call it?..........
Juan Bosch, running on behalf of the PRD in 1963, became the first democratically elected official in the country's history. However

José María Cabral was president from August 22, 1866 until January 3, 1868 was the first elected by universal suffrage.​

 

Tom F.

Bronze
Jan 1, 2002
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Since the 1600's it starts to appear in several documents referring to the inhabitants of the island, then to the inhabitants of the Spanish side, then to Spanish Haiti (even the independence manifiesto it mentions the Dominican people), then during the Haitian Domination, then once the DR was established as the country of the Dominican people. When it comes to the DR, the Dominican nation already existed before the Dominican Republic.

Since this thread is about Haiti, the Haitian nation was like most nationa in the world, created many years after Haiti was established as a country, not before.

Other nations continue to not have their own country. For example, the Kurds don't have a country, but they are found in parts of Turkey and Iraq, and I think parts of Syria. One of the fears during the Iraq was when the USA ended the Sadam Hussein dictatorship was that the Kurds would gain their independence by breaking away the northern part of Iraq.
Interesting, I guess this is one of the major detriments of the history of European colonialism. Much of Africa has different ethnic groups being divided over multiple nations. I think the name Haiti originates from Taino origins.